Khan Noonien Singh

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posted on March 31st, 2014, 1:57 pm
A little question for you all...which Khan did you prefer? And why?
posted on March 31st, 2014, 2:09 pm
the original. ricardo montalban defined that character, a character so good it got an entire movie.

cumberbatch is a good actor, but redoing a role that's already been done so well is pointless.

i wish those talentless hacks making the new movies had tried to come up with something original.
posted on March 31st, 2014, 2:19 pm
Pretty much with Myles all the way here. Montalban was the original, and owned the role in a way Cumberbatch simply cannot.

Even overlooking the staggeringly derivative nature of JarJar's "Into Darkness", and with my sincere like of Cumberbatch, he wasn't an appropriate casting choice for the role.
posted on March 31st, 2014, 2:28 pm
I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting any different answers than both provided by Myles and Mad Hatter, but after reading various online articles I found it interesting to note that alot of people either preferred or found Cumberbatch to be at the same level as Montalban
posted on March 31st, 2014, 2:38 pm
CaptainDavros wrote:I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting any different answers than both provided by Myles and Mad Hatter, but after reading various online articles I found it interesting to note that alot of people either preferred or found Cumberbatch to be at the same level as Montalban

if you were watching Star Wars Into Darkness without having seen any previous star trek stuff, then you'd be fine with cumberbatch as khan. the problem is it's a remake, so it has to be compared to the original. if they wanted a clean(er) slate they should have written an original story.

even if cumberbatch as khan wasn't retreading old ground, i still don't think he would have made the role his own in the way montalban did. but of course that's all hypothetical, and maybe i'd be more amiable without the disappointment of seeing how jj's trek compares to real trek.
posted on March 31st, 2014, 2:49 pm
Well, I did just read a somewhat interesting idea of who would have been a better Khan than Cumberbatch; Antonio Banderas.
Barring the obvious ethnicity issue which (according to the blog-commenter) alienated some Trek fans, there's the fact that Banderas, like Montalban, is suave, can make a role his own, could make himself pose a threat to Kirk AND has a voice that could make anyone melt into putty
posted on March 31st, 2014, 8:51 pm
Cumberbatch really should have been a different character, there are no real similarities between both versions of Khan at all other then both of them threw a guy down a hallway. They look completely different, act completely different, I like both characters but it's really jarring trying to compare them.

Montalban Khan: Selfish and ultimately self serving. He's all about the ego and pride and seems very sociable. He's a "show-off" and likes to flaunt his superior intellect. He would never work with Kirk ever because of his pride, even if it meant his defeat. He's almost cartoony in that matter, except he's able to back up his boasts. At times he seems like he'd actually be a fun person to know if he didn't have genocide of lesser beings on his mind.

Cumberbatch Khan: Surprisingly noble and justified. He's very reclusive, quiet, and seems very anti social. He is willing to put himself down and humble himself (working with Kirk) to accomplish his goals. He never flaunts or shows off his superiority, he'll just strike and murder you and take no credit for it. He's a lot less cartoony and more "realistic" in that regard, but not nearly as admirable as Montalban Khan.

They are two utterly different characters, there really is no way to compare them. I like both for different reasons, but as far as "who's the better Khan" I have to go with the actor that defined who Khan is in the first place.

When I heard Cumberbatch and Kingons were going to be in Into Darkness I was seriously hoping for a younger Chang as an antagonist. I almost suspected he might have been Chang in disguise when he fled to Qonos and we saw the exploded Praxis before the Khan reveal. Oh well. Here's hoping they don't have the Borg be out of character in the next movie. :lol:
posted on March 31st, 2014, 9:04 pm
Honestly, I don't think Cumberbatch has that many roles he could play in Star Trek that would suit him IMO. I think he's a very skilled actor, but I disliked his Khan because he seemed to me to be Sherlock with superpowers. Even his little speech to Spock about disabling the Enterprise's life support was structured in a similar style to a Sherlock monologue. Of course, whether that is just typecasting on my behalf is entirely possible.
I do see your point about his sense of realism of course, but that's also a problem. Star Trek's a space opera at heart; the Abrams attempt to make it more in vogue with modern cinema and it's angsty connotations dilutes the characters for me...it makes the genre less interesting, and doesn't recapture that same level of wonder that held me when I was younger, and indeed still holds me in its sway.

And if they dare try and use the Borg, I suspect legions of Trek fans would lynch the scriptwriters and directors for interfering with the timeline. I reckon they're likely to use Cardassians
posted on March 31st, 2014, 9:25 pm
CaptainDavros wrote:Honestly, I don't think Cumberbatch has that many roles he could play in Star Trek that would suit him IMO. I think he's a very skilled actor, but I disliked his Khan because he seemed to me to be Sherlock with superpowers. Even his little speech to Spock about disabling the Enterprise's life support was structured in a similar style to a Sherlock monologue. Of course, whether that is just typecasting on my behalf is entirely possible.
I do see your point about his sense of realism of course, but that's also a problem. Star Trek's a space opera at heart; the Abrams attempt to make it more in vogue with modern cinema and it's angsty connotations dilutes the characters for me...it makes the genre less interesting, and doesn't recapture that same level of wonder that held me when I was younger, and indeed still holds me in its sway.

And if they dare try and use the Borg, I suspect legions of Trek fans would lynch the scriptwriters and directors for interfering with the timeline. I reckon they're likely to use Cardassians


By realistic I suppose I meant he behaved in a way a character in his position should. Montalban Khan would be taken down in no time by a professional military, he was defeated by the simple concept of a Z axis after all... but I think that was supposed to be a commentary on his pride and arrogance, something Cumberbatch Khan did not seem to have at all.

Cardassians would be nice to see, though I honestly think they should just create a new and original alien threat. Abrams and his crew seem to be in a weird position where they want to provide excessive fanservice by including as many things from prime trek as possible.... but yet everything they include is jarringly out of character. This is why I suspect they'll throw the Borg in there somehow. Next to the Klingons the Borg are considered the biggest and most recognizable antagonist of Star Trek.
posted on March 31st, 2014, 9:43 pm
See, that's why I liked Montalban's Khan. His weaknesses were oversights caused by his ego, whereas Cumberbatch's weaknesses revolved around his fellow Augments; he showed a human side which, yes, Montalban showed over McGivers and her death, but he willingly showed that human side to his enemies. I don't think personally that Khan would do that, because showing this concern over his fellow Augments opens the risk of him being tricked. Montalban only showed his pain when he was sure he had succeeded.

And in rebooting the Borg, they would quite literally have to change everything about Star Trek canon on a scale far larger than they have already managed. It would be akin to jumping the shark, and they would literally alienate a fair portion of their audience.

Cardassians would be cool, and they could probably find some way to include the Occupation in, although I can imagine that would annoy quite a few people as well. Or, they could reboot Kor, Kang and Koloth. In fact, I reckon Cumberbatch could have pulled off quite a good Kor
posted on April 6th, 2014, 7:19 pm
considering how well they did in recasting the enterprise crew (m'coy and Spock spectacularly )
its strange how they went with someone way different to the original khan. (apparently they want to avoid race issues which i find bizarre )

funny but when i read CaptainDavros mention Antonio Banderas as khan i think that would of been perfect, i think he could of played the role a lot more closer to the original.

cumberbatch is practically a different character all together but the name, no similarities visually/mannerisms or personality wise imo. if he was named someone else i wouldn't of ever said.. hay hes a rip off of khan.

and yeah cumberbatch as a younger Chang sounds a lot more appropriate and i wish they had gone with that that would of been awesome
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