Galaxy as a Generation ship?

posted on July 23rd, 2009, 2:48 pm

I was reading about Generation ships, and a question popped into my head, namely:

Could a Galaxy Class function in that role?

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on July 23rd, 2009, 2:51 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on July 23rd, 2009, 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No it could not I believe. Even within the realm of startrek, the population is too small to sustain a viable population more than a few centuries--not to mention logistical issues with the durability of the ship (needing refits etc) and long term storage of goods.

EDIT: on second thought the population might not be that bad if we consider a high ratio of females to males, as well as willingness and ability to breed with other species.

[Dexter]

posted on July 23rd, 2009, 3:03 pm

Last edited by Dexter on July 23rd, 2009, 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The ships has a crew possibility of 1050 + civilians.
Lets take just 350 people, use the 4 cargo bays, convert some space into cargo holds. As for low population 50 pairs ( 100 people) is a viable populatin to sustain a population. Of course genetic diversity would be helped whit multiple mates. Dont think in monogamy or 21st century perspective. Survival of the species on a generation ship is 1st priority.

Now i'm not 100% sure, but seeing Voyager was able to find resources in an unknown part of space for 7 years ( even more considering the last episode in the future timeline), and only having a crew between 85-100 people ( sorry not 100% sure ) they seemed methaly stable, focused, and kept the ship up and running.

The true problem is not space or resources, its long term isolation, but Voyager proved that its not as bad as it seems. Besides the star trek univers is not sparceley populated. There are manny species, societies.

I could write more on the topic, but lets leave it as it is now. Never say never.

P.S.: Sorry for spelling errors.

posted on July 23rd, 2009, 3:05 pm

Hmmm ... one needs at least 300 individuals to maintain genetical diversity in a closed system. From Dr. Strangelove we know that we need a 10:1 female:male ratio
From the reliability of USS Enterprise as depicted in the series speaking, I would prefer a soviet Ural-type of spacecraft

posted on July 23rd, 2009, 4:28 pm

I thiught that one study put the needed ammount to sustain genetic diversity was
32 people? I could be wrong, but I'll say that the galaxy has more than enough to sustain itself

posted on July 23rd, 2009, 4:50 pm

It depends on many variables. Several of them being how closely related the people already are, how many years we are talking about, whether you can keep a supply of embryos from females that have long since died etc. This doesn't even begin to delve into the social issues that will arise--for instance, our very strong loathing of incest or inbreeding. Of course, we also don't know the non human to human population of the starship in question...

Not to mention the Galaxy Class is hardly a suitable design for a long term spacecraft--unless you expect that the crew can maintain the computers etc for a long period of time relying on spare parts and helpful civilizations etc.

Dont think in monogamy or 21st century perspective. Survival of the species on a generation ship is 1st priority.

Insemination would most likely be artificial 

You could of course use the Nova as a counter example to Voyager though Dexter: was it half or 3/4 of the crew that was dead after only a few months? ...not to mention the ship was about to be destroyed.

[Dexter]

posted on July 23rd, 2009, 5:29 pm

Last edited by Dexter on July 23rd, 2009, 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Right but they had a "male" captain

Edit: most human cultures were not based on monogamy .. hell even today more people cheat on there partners .. we just have better "protection"

posted on July 23rd, 2009, 5:37 pm

Yes, sexual fidelity is pretty rare within animals in general.

That has little to do with the idea of technological or biological issues of a generational ship though

[Dexter]

posted on July 23rd, 2009, 5:54 pm

Last edited by Dexter on July 23rd, 2009, 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Actualy it has much to do with it .. consider genetical variation .. after a few years not all the equipment will work propperly .. so artificial insemination will become riskier .. rather use the good old fashion way.

Of course some females will complain to having too manny partners, but i think males will not object to much to be the father of multiple children ... would you ?

Take the game fallout ... it is set in a post apocalipthic world wher people survived in huge underground waults. In manny aspects there are more isolated than people in a spaceship. They have food dispensers (star thek replicators), water purifiers (star trek energy recicler), and have mostly 300-1000 imhabitants, no other resources in there stores. Still they survive, trive and reproduce, have culture etc.

I tend not to underestimate human survival. We are almost as adaptable as the borg ... i even can imagine a future were we become something like the borg ... if history has shown us something is that humans will adapt no matter the cost. Aslo true that most of the time we are the ones to destroy ourselfs.

So a generation ship is more likely to fail bie human error, emotions, conflicts, then bie matters of reproduction, or technichal stuff.
Dont forget also motivation, if we are talking about the remnants of humanity its a strong motivator.
Besides will they not have a or more holografic doctor(s) ? What about the holodeck ?

Important for me is long time isolation .. but as previosly stated star trek space is far from beeing empty .. so they are sure to find friend and foe alike.

posted on July 23rd, 2009, 7:23 pm

I just thought about a few generations .. this would be surly possible, especially due to it's equipment that can selfreplicate.

But what exavltly are we discussing here ... a realistic ship just if the size of the galaxy with possibly realistic equipment and energy sources, or just if a ST galaxy could survive forever outside in deep space? A discussion about formeer would be really interesting! 

posted on September 12th, 2009, 12:22 am

in fallout 3 they commented on the shrinking population.  vault 101 probably only had a few generations left in it.

i think genetic diversity is a little bit overrated.  parts of this country have survived just fine for along time by "keeping it in the family" 

posted on September 12th, 2009, 1:23 am

Could the galaxy be made into a generation ship ? i´d say yes

Would it be ? I guess not

In the Trekiverse, space crawls with sentient life. Speeds faster than light are readily available. There is no need for any sort of generation ship. That kind of space travel is just a method to do it despite the fact that it takes decades or even centuries to reach a destination.

posted on September 13th, 2009, 6:22 am

humm,  old ship, falling apart, being used long after its retirement days, cargo bays turned into living quarters..

anyone here ever hear of a show called Battlestar Galactica?  ::)

posted on September 13th, 2009, 9:06 am

I voted a cautious "may be".

In the ST universe, the only ways that a "generation ship" style of travel would make sense were if StarFleet intended to colonize another galaxy or if the Federation was wiped out from its homeworlds and colonies in a catastrophic way, like in BSG.

Of the standard StarFleet ships I know, the Galaxy class is possibly the best for fulfilling that role, but it's actually a poor design for the task. It's got decent armament and ample space for storage and living quarters. Still, as most StarFleet designs, from the series we can read between lines that it requires regular shipyard maintenance and resupply of certain consumible elements, for example, for the energy core.

I doubt they'd find supplies in intergalactic space.

posted on September 13th, 2009, 9:22 am

"The Voyager crew proved"
No they did not, because its a show based on the ideas of the designers. I think if there was a real Voyager, the whole thing would not happend so... "smooth". Chakotey against a borg cube, fighting 10 minutes against it and them reterat. 10 Minutes against a borg cube... I doubt even the souvereign would stand a chance in real battle.