enterprise

posted on May 27th, 2004, 9:34 pm

Yeah I looked both there and ditl but they just raise more questions, neither of them can make sense of the Defiant. I think it's a Romulan plot to confuse me

posted on May 27th, 2004, 9:54 pm

well i think u got the borg virus of TNG to destroy u while ur analysin datas

posted on May 27th, 2004, 9:56 pm

No thats not it, they say it generators more power then a Galaxy classes warp core and rivals a Soverns core. So i'm left with many questions...

Where did they say that? , Ive never seen that statement..

@DOCa Cola:

Ex Artis Scientia, one of my favorite sites

@Defiant:

Bigger is not better in ST.

The U.S.S. Defiant NX-74205 was the prototype vessel for Starfleet's Defiant-class starships. It was Starfleet's first true warship and had no provision for families or diplomatic missions, no science labs, no holodecks, or any of the other comforts of home. It was a heavily armored, stripped-down vessel that was created as a first strike' vehicle for use in war, and incorporated the latest in Starfleet weaponry and defensive technology

Now the Definat is overpowerd and overgunned for its size, Its nothing more then a flying heavily armored weapons platform, unlikely any other Fed. Ship.
Now A Galaxy class for instance is way bigger, but uses most of its power on other systems than weapons Id say, It lacks the abblative Armor, the special weapons, and most importantly: The maneuverability.

...and lets think about something else: Now a sovereign class ship should have a surface way bigger then this little tiny ship, right (100times bigger, more?)?
Now the shielding around that ship has..lets say the energy output x, and lets say the defiant has the shielding energyoutput x/2, but 100 times less surface to cover.
So the shielding/area would still be 50times stronger, would it not (just an Idea *g*)
I know shields are not supposed to work quite that way, but I think that thought might have some relevance after all, since a ship has more then one shield emitter, and and you often see in the series that for instance the aft-shielding is going down....

posted on May 27th, 2004, 10:07 pm

Bigger is better in star trek, for the most part newer ships get bigger and bigger, the sovern is the longest ship ever made by starfleet. Even tho they need more shields when their larger, they also provide more space for shield generators, weapons and just room altogether.

The Defiant itself is around 100-150 meters in length to the Galaxys oh around 650 meters (not an estimate). Yet apparently a Defiant class can do heavy damage to one but in return probably be destroyed itself. This ship simply dosent make since, it's just too small in my eyes to pack the fire power it does, now if they took a ship like half the size of an Exclesior and made it a floating gun plafor then i'd agree but the Defiant is simply too small...

posted on May 28th, 2004, 1:32 am

too small for what?
for these 2 rapidphaserbanks?
for the 1 torplauncher?
for aroundbout 80 crewmen?

[auron]

posted on May 28th, 2004, 4:01 am

Last edited by auron on May 28th, 2004, 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

first of all, bigger does not mean better, here's why:

1. the ship does way something, because of the gravity generators, so in affect, the bigger it is, the slower it gets

2. also the bigger the ship is, the easier it is to hit... for example... if you had a bullseye target and the point of a ballpoint pen, wich one would be easier to hit smake dab in the middle with a laser pointer?

3. the defiant does have a warpcore right? so whats the warp core producing for? replicators???? NO! medical???? NO! life support???? NO! IT"S ALL TOWARDS SHIELDS AND WEAPONS!!!! wich is vice-versa for somethign like lets say a soverign?

posted on May 28th, 2004, 4:53 am

Well first off in star trek bigger is better because of tracking weapons, you don't miss with Phasers or most projectiles since they have advanced targeting systems.
Speed for the most part isnt an issue since you'd only be slow at sub light speeds and again, tracking weapons is all you need, not speed.

Oh, and KLOK, 4 Pulse Phaser banks, 3 torpedo launchers, and I believe a rear Phaser array

[Blackelf]

posted on May 28th, 2004, 5:31 am

Last edited by Blackelf on May 28th, 2004, 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

3 Torpedo launchers?
Doesnt it have only that 2? (or do you mean the deflector opening?)

About the standart phasers: 2 standart Phaser banks (one on the Forward Deflector Opening and the other on her dorsal side) , but the one on the Forward Deflector opening hase`nt been used that often..

ps: regarding the targeting systems:
thats what I though: in the 24th century they should be able to have perfect computer targeting systems, that will always hit, but on the other hand, are`nt they supposed to have highly developed ECM also?
At least it seems that way, because the Ships in the StarTrek Universe dont always hit, even with their normal phasers:
At least thats what you can see in a couple of Voy episodes, and especially in DS9, wherefore maneuverability and a low profile is a great advantage in a battle..
(If they did alyways hit, what would the evasive-maneuvers be there for? )

Sure , even with ECM a 600m long ship shouldnt be that hard to hit ,since most of the battles are fought in sub-light speed, now the ship is quite big, and cant accelerate as fast as a small ship (laws of physics, It has a greater mass), but a 120-150m long ship, with a low profile, fast moving ... :guns:

ps: god..I hope my english isent as bad as I think it is

pps: even the BORG have trouble hitting the Defiant


and hey, here you see the defiant beeing missed:


or here



or how about that one


I love this ship ^^

posted on May 28th, 2004, 6:06 am

Hey, guess what? Those are off of movies and shows, so of course thats the only ship the enemys CANT hit, think about it...

Yes there are 3 pulse fire Quantum torpedo tubes, 2 forward and 1 aft but theres only 1 Phaser bank, and then the 4 oh so loveable forward Pulse Phasers.

Again, of course during the large fleet battles in DS9 the only ship not being hit is the Defiant, because its THE Defiant. You can't let it blow up or no show...easy explaination...

[Blackelf]

posted on May 28th, 2004, 6:35 am

Last edited by Blackelf on May 28th, 2004, 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ah, your right, missed that one aft-torpedo launcher
btw: the the main deflector opening is also a torpedo/probe launcher.

Btw: regarding the normal phasers: according to the series there is indeed another phaser (maybe even 2):
The Forward Deflector Opening has been used as a phaser (also to launch probes
or fire torpedos), and there also could be a ventral side phaser, as seen in the voy ep. "message in a bottle", as seen here (she fires on a warbird)
..

and about the hitchances: you clearly have a point here, but that was not the only ship that has been missed, watch the little fighters in the battles in DS9, or the smaller ships, and I also recall to have seen many ep. where a shuttle, or small fast craft has been missed by phasers.

If bigger were better in ST it wouldnt be StarTrek Imho, more like Starwars..

posted on May 28th, 2004, 6:44 am

Yeah not sure why were still talking about weapons but the 1 Phaser bank on the Defiant is a turret behind the main bridge which I believe can fire in any direction so that may be where the multible Phaser idea came from. Don't worry, even if it is the Ventral side of the Defiant firing that Phaser, Paramount, writers and special effect people in star trek like to make mistakes

Yes, I knew of the forward Torpedo/Probe launcher...

And yes the weapons CAN miss in the heat of battle, imagine trying to target 1 out of hundreds of ships in a few seconds! Even with all the technology that must be hard.

Dude I must commend you or whoever did that Paint thing with the Warbird and Defiant, good job

posted on May 28th, 2004, 6:54 am

Your right, Startrek has some flaws (pitty weve never seen the landing gear on the defiant *g*), and thats the reason why we can never be sure of anything..hell its only a movie, and its open for interpretation

But I love a good hypothetical discussion ^_^

If I recall all those timetrevel future eps. correctly, it seems like the ships arent getting bigger, but simply more high-tech.
And I suppose a ECM is a pretty good explanation why phasers dont always hit (not only in the heat of battle , there are eps. where they miss on 1on1s)

posted on May 28th, 2004, 6:58 am

Well, your always going to go bigger, simply because of the longer missions exploring ships would be going on, potentially to other galaxies.

We arnt even sure there is landing gear on the Defiant, it says so in the handbook but never seen it but as you said we can't be sure of anything...til you see it.

posted on May 28th, 2004, 11:09 am

i love the defiant

posted on May 28th, 2004, 11:13 am

...til you see it.

And Even If we see it, It could be wrong, could be different in another Episode..

Btw: but the Ships dont need to get bigger for that, technology does the trick in the ST universe.. Transwarp, Slipsteam, Warp10