Discrete Sovereign?

posted on December 5th, 2009, 7:24 am

  So ...  here's a question:  Why is it that we never saw the Sovereign class in DS9?  I mean First Contact and Insurrection were out before DS9 was over ... is there a reason that anyone knows about perhaps why the show never cared to use the model?  In an effort to save costs they would use the models for the Galaxy and many others, but never the Sovereign.

  Anybody have an interesting link or anything like that?

posted on December 5th, 2009, 7:39 am

Well, you have to remember whose running Star Trek at this point, Rick "I drool a lot" Berman, and Brennon "I have no clue what I'm doing" Bragga, or however you spell his name.  Since you're in Hollywood, you know how stupid decisions are made.  It probably went down something like this:

"Hey, we should add the Sovereign in some DS9 Battles!  It's a great ship!"

"No, because Picard and his crew would steal Sisko's thunder."

"But it doesn't have to be the Enterprise.  Aren't there a few other Sovereigns out there?"

Possibly, but we can't add it because people will think that Picard is on the ship.  If we show a Sovereign class vessel people, even if we tell them it's a different ship, will think it's the Enterprise because the Sovereign is Picard's ship."

In short:  They think the audience is stupid...

And yes, I borrowed from Redlettermedia's nemesis review, but it fits so well here.

posted on December 5th, 2009, 7:52 am

Oh did he mention that as well?  He's a funny one.

  Hmm well I had always kind of guessed that.  Then the doubt came up in the brain that since they threw Galaxies in there - there must not worry TOO much about people getting sidetracked.  But I suppose, yes, that the Sovereign might have been considered "TOO EXCITING" ... There were a number of ship chassis that were not seen much in DS9 but featured in First Contact.

  Saber's are actually seen if you look closely in a few DS9 battles but they don't look nearly as detailed as they do in First Contact.  Steamrunners can be seen as well in the epic battle scenes but are actually modeled slightly different.  You can see one relatively well In "Sacrifice of Angels" in the shot where the Klingons dive onto the Dominion ships.  The size of the model compared to the Dominion ships is actually quite large.  Akira's are featured relatively well in several episodes but they really tend to be ships that just get blown up.  There are few to no Ambassador's seen in DS9 beyond the episode where Sisko flashbacks to Wolf 359.

  You just never know sometimes.  It could be that the movie producers or somebody else with legal rights prevented the Sovereign model from being used outside of the Movies.  In fact I'd guess that as the most likely reason.  The model of the ship itself would be a major reason for people to go watch the movies - to see the badass new Enterprise.  If they saw it more often in DS9 it might take some draw away from marketing the movies.

posted on December 5th, 2009, 8:00 am

He didn't mention it, but I borrowed some of this lines.  My "conversation" was adapted from the review of why Shinzon is bald, and why Picard is bald in his photo.  The legal reason could have been a big factor, definitely.  But I like to make fun of Berman every chance I get, so any theory that includes him having a hand in screwing up Star Trek gets my vote.

posted on December 5th, 2009, 8:54 am

i thought they didnt use the sovy because it wasnt ready. it was a long time ago but didnt they say in bridge commander something about they didnt use the sovy in the dominion war because there were some issues that needed to be fixed?. espacially with the regenerativ shields? but im not sure. and then in first contact i think geordi  said something about : hey captain we are out here testing all the time...we are ready... . yeah it wasnt supposed to be used in the battle of sector 001. but picard thought it was a kind of an emergency.

posted on December 5th, 2009, 9:14 am

Actually, it's easier than that.

Money. Time

All down to the fact that they didn't have the resources to implement the Sovereign into battle sequences. Notice how they used the same battle sequence for Chin'Toka battle 1, and for battle 2?

Same with when the Defiant was destroyed. USS Sao Paulo was just renamed...

posted on December 5th, 2009, 10:22 am

Actually, it's easier than that.

Money. Time

All down to the fact that they didn't have the resources to implement the Sovereign into battle sequences. Notice how they used the same battle sequence for Chin'Toka battle 1, and for battle 2?

Same with when the Defiant was destroyed. USS Sao Paulo was just renamed...

  Well yeah that makes some sense, but as long as the model physically exists ... they can use it for a battel sequence.

  The DS9 battles were CGI anyway and the actual incorporating of it into a battle wouldn't be any different that say adding a Galaxy, watching a Miranda get trounced, or seeing a Vorcha get rammed by a Bug.  It's all just graphics.

  I'm gonna say this one was probably a rights issue.  The movie company's likely wanted the Sovereign out of the series' so as to keep it as a unique attraction for the features.  There's a lot more money in Films (both going in and coming out) than there is in TV and I would not put it past a Studio AT ALL to keep something as a "trump card" in terms of drawing viewers.

  The Sovereign was in use in the Dominion War.  Battle of Sector 001 was during the DS9 war seeing as First Contact CREATED the models for the Saber, Steamrunner, and Akira Class vessels.  Am I wrong there?  The difference between those vessels and the Sovereign is that they were unnamed and relatively unimportant.  The Sovvie was the movie series' new baby, and my guess is they kept it to themselves but gave the DS9 department all the models for the other vessels.

  This is starting to make much more sense to me now

posted on December 5th, 2009, 10:29 am

I may be wrong, but I do believe that only two Sovereign class ships existed by the end of DS9. I don't think the prototype Sovereign was intended to participate in massive fights and the Enterprise was busy dealing with who-knows-what during the war.

posted on December 5th, 2009, 10:54 am

Well, based on Insurrection, the Enterprise-E, and the USS Sovereign were tooling around during the Dominion war.  But Starfleet used their latest and greatest to 'put out brush fires' and 'extend olive branches' elsewhere in Federation space.

I guess the feds took the stance of 'Well, sure, the vast majority of Starfleet is off near Bajor, fighting the Dominion.  Why do you ask?  Oh, that?  We have the most powerful ships in Starfleet still hanging out in the area, you morons!  Just because we're in a major war doesn't mean we're gonna let you loot our colonies and member-planets!'

posted on December 5th, 2009, 11:17 am

I the Enterprise was busy dealing with who-knows-what during the war.

In the words of Picard 'Patrolling the Neutral Zone incase the Romulans decide to take advantage of the situation'
 

posted on December 5th, 2009, 1:38 pm

in sacrifice of angels it was said there was a whole fleet guarding earth (i think it was the 1st fleet) maybe they left the enterprise (latest greatest ship) in that fleet so they have some muscle there. They already had ross and sisko at the front lines, maybe they thought they should leave some talent behind incase sisko and ross die painfully and replacements are needed.

on another note, they never explicitly stated ross's ship, unless he was supposed to be going to war on the voyager bellerororfone or whatever, which is an intrepid class ship,  i imagine he would want a nicer ship like an akira. then again admiral leyton got an excel (with quantum torps  ) and martok got a BoP.

posted on December 5th, 2009, 1:52 pm

i martok got a BoP.

He said it would be a more honorable death 

posted on December 5th, 2009, 3:04 pm

"Bellerophon"

In greek it means "Killer of Belleros". It's the name of the hero that rode Pegasus, the winged horse, to kill the Chimera.

posted on December 5th, 2009, 3:05 pm

I imagine Ross was on a Galaxy...

posted on December 5th, 2009, 6:37 pm

According to something I read somewhere, don't remember if it was canon or not though, there were Sovereign classes involved in battles in the late Dominion War. Apparently, when the Breen snuck in and attacked Earth, there were Sovereigns in the battle defending Earth.