If a tree falls in the forrest and no ones around to hear it

posted on August 5th, 2010, 12:16 am

If a tree falls in the forrest and no ones around to hear it dose it make a sound?

And why do we care?

Our need to know trivial and useless things will be the end of us.

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Stop trying to figure every thing out and just get thats what happened.

And no is dose not matter why the tree fell.

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If you look at politics perfect example of this millions and millions spent of bills that don't pass.

People get divorced because they can figure there parter out, so sad.

posted on August 5th, 2010, 1:18 am

I bet our gov't could spend $2, trillon on research and still couldn't answer that question.


...and yet it wouldn't be the stupidest thing they have spent that much money on.

posted on August 5th, 2010, 2:45 pm

Put a microphone next to it and record, the koan was written at a time before electronics.

But of course even with no way to find out, it did indeed make a sound due to cause and effect. Sorry Zen Buddhist monks, but modern reasoning says you should update those koans.

posted on August 5th, 2010, 3:34 pm

Of course it does! Trees are not know for being very sneaky

The need to know (in most cases) useless things is the very beginning of our existence. Our need to know something is nothing else but the need to construct ourselves. Knowledge (of any sort) becomes integral part of our worldview; the best example might be "episodic knowledge" (=the knowledge of our own, personal history/set of prior experiences)

I would recommend watching "Waking Life" ...

posted on August 5th, 2010, 6:56 pm

Put a microphone next to it and record, the koan was written at a time before electronics.

But of course even with no way to find out, it did indeed make a sound due to cause and effect. Sorry Zen Buddhist monks, but modern reasoning says you should update those loans.

That would count as someone being there to hear it. It will just be temporally asynchronized. Though there is also the unprovable theory of blackholes being a gate to a parallel universe. Reason being is that even if it wuz, it'd be a one way trip and you couldn't go back to tell ya friends. So sad.

posted on August 5th, 2010, 8:22 pm

Of course it does! Trees are not know for being very sneaky

Yes, it makes a sound. It falls, this causes a vibration in the air which makes the sound. It doesn't matter if no one's around to hear it, physics still works.

posted on August 5th, 2010, 8:44 pm

The need to know (in most cases) useless things is the very beginning of our existence. Our need to know something is nothing else but the need to construct ourselves. Knowledge (of any sort) becomes integral part of our worldview; the best example might be "episodic knowledge" (=the knowledge of our own, personal history/set of prior experiences)

QFT

Yes, it makes a sound. It falls, this causes a vibration in the air which makes the sound. It doesn't matter if no one's around to hear it, physics still works.

QFT



/topic (I hope)


This has to be one of the most useless threads ever created on these boards, congrats. Just a tip, people dislike being lectured to, in most cases, in real life. On the internet, on a gaming forum, it makes it a thousand times more annoying and very much pointless.

posted on August 5th, 2010, 8:46 pm

Yes, it makes a sound. It falls, this causes a vibration in the air which makes the sound. It doesn't matter if no one's around to hear it, physics still works.

i hate an argument with a much smarter guy than me (my mentor) once, i took the side of it makes a sound, he took the opposing side. his points were quite convincing. he questioned the definition of sound. as sound is something we defined.

does a high pitched sound that only dogs can hear constitute sound? we are tempted to say yes. u say that because the air particles vibrate that there is sound, but air is always vibrating at a very low volume due to the fact that it isnt at absolute zero. so the "sound" is there without the tree even falling. only certain vibration frequencies are audible by the life on earth. if u define sound as only vibrations which are audible by life on earth then what about aliens with better hearing? its a funny topic. sound is a completely human concept, there would be no sound without humans to say: "hey that made a sound"

posted on August 5th, 2010, 8:47 pm

On the internet, on a gaming forum, it makes it a thousand times more annoying and very much pointless.

actually this board is called small talk, so anything that obeys the forum rules is allowed as far as i know. if u only want to read gaming related stuff then dont go to this board

sorry for double post.

posted on August 5th, 2010, 8:57 pm

Quote my whole paragraph next time please The words you quoted relate to the point that lecturing people over the internet is nonsense, not that the subforum is wrong


Also:

-From Wiki:
Sound is a travelling wave that is an oscillation of pressure transmitted through a solid, liquid, or gas, composed of frequencies within the range of hearing and of a level sufficiently strong to be heard, or the sensation stimulated in organs of hearing by such vibrations.

So yes, it does produce a sound

-From online dictionary:
sound 1  (sound)
n.
1.
a. Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing.
b. Transmitted vibrations of any frequency.
c. The sensation stimulated in the organs of hearing by such vibrations in the air or other medium.
d. Such sensations considered as a group.
2. A distinctive noise: a hollow sound.
3. The distance over which something can be heard: within sound of my voice.
4. Linguistics
a. An articulation made by the vocal apparatus: a vowel sound.
b. The distinctive character of such an articulation: The words bear and bare have the same sound.
5. A mental impression; an implication: didn't like the sound of the invitation.
6. Auditory material that is recorded, as for a movie.
7. Meaningless noise.
8. Music A distinctive style, as of an orchestra or a singer.
9. Archaic Rumor; report.

Now, figure out for yourself in which definitions it fits and in which it doesnt. I really dont see that much to debate tbh 

posted on August 5th, 2010, 8:59 pm

you say range of hearing and sufficiently strong to be heard.

whose range of hearing? and how strong is strong enough? can u set an arbitrary number?

a dog whistle is outside human range of hearing, but dogs hear it fine, is it not sound?

posted on August 5th, 2010, 9:07 pm

a) I say nothing, Wiki says.
b) I have also posted a lot of other definitions from an online dictionary
c) Depending on which definition you pick, its a sound or it isnt. Im not quite getting whats so hard to understand.
d) Since you focused solely on the wiki definition, I can only anwser those questions by giving you my personal opinion and that counts just as much as yours or anyone elses does. Obviously its not specified well enough, so Id guess that definition is not the greatest. However, if going by that definiiton, it depends from person to person what a sound actually is

posted on August 5th, 2010, 10:13 pm

To answer the question of trivial nature: Yes, it does make a sound.

...Of course, there is always the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle .

Um, that's what the Heisenberg Compensators are for Megaman! 

posted on August 6th, 2010, 12:10 am

You could argue that sound is a concept created by humans, but regardless of what species is the recipent, the actual mechanism that is sound remains the same. "Sound" is simply the word used by humans to describe it. Whether we can hear the sound or not is irrelevant, it is still produced.

...Of course, there is always the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle .

I think this only works at a subatomic level.

posted on August 6th, 2010, 12:17 am

I have a much better question, anyway.

If a bear farts in the woods, and that bear is Yogi Bear, will he still want a pic-a-nic basket BooBoo?