Help me buy a laptop!!

posted on June 11th, 2012, 8:51 pm

All types of video recording/editing put a lot of strain on a system. If a desktop is out, then getting the best laptop you can afford is the next best option. You will want to get as high speed processor as possible and the more RAM the better.

Myles did mention that some graphics cards also help with video processing. While different cards may offer different performance in this area, a report a read about a week ago said that you are better off going with more RAM and a better processor. This may change, but for now a graphic card is not the major factor in video editing. Any mid-level card will let you play Fleetops and that should be all you need.

playing/recording fleetops/any more modern game will put stress a lot of stress on a laptop, the heat is in a much smaller space with laptops.

To help with this make sure that you keep the air vents on the laptop(or any computer) free of dust. Keeping the laptop on a flat, hard surface makes a big difference in airflow. Getting one of those external fan stations should help, although I have not used one myself.

posted on June 11th, 2012, 9:07 pm

To help with this make sure that you keep the air vents on the laptop(or any computer) free of dust. Keeping the laptop on a flat, hard surface makes a big difference in airflow. Getting one of those external fan stations should help, although I have not used one myself.

Yes, this is something I want to add my voice to. Get comfortable opening up your laptop and using compressed air to blow away the dust. always shake the can and don't use prolonged bursts (to avoid liquid discharge), and use something like a cotton bud (translate to north american: qtip) to hold fans in place or you risk spinning them too fast.

this won't involve removing any components, only parts of the plastic case. always earth yourself by touching something metal like a radiator.

you'd be surprised how much dust builds up inside computers.

laptop cooling pads are good too, they take up a usb slot for power, but they keep airflow good, by both using the fan to circulate air and by providing a flat surface for the laptop feet to rest on. i've always used one, i recommend using one. more expensive ones even have usb ports and act as a usb hub (unpowered, so not for stuff that needs lots of power).

posted on June 11th, 2012, 9:30 pm

gaming on your laptop will seriously cut its life time down, the heat from an integrated graphics card/under load processor will take a toll on your hardware. in the long run you'll have to buy another gaming laptop far too soon.

Could you elaborate on this? Im not thinking about serious gaming like battlefield 3 or anything, but some sto maybe, or eve, you tube vids and that sort of stuff.

Also the ssd why do they die sooner, and how much sooner?

Im looking for a 15inch laptop, and while desktops are probably better and cheaper, I dont have the space for a desktop, and would like the portability of a laptop. Thanks for all your advice!

My laptop with 3GB of shared ram can run bf3. Not, or max graphics mind you, but it won't look like crap either. I can run STO on max graphics but it will lag a bit when in a system with hundreds of other people or on a starbase. When running missions on my own, STO will run, max graphics, no problem. But my laptop is an A8 with integrated card. The research I have done says that AMD A8s are better at video processing, whereas i5s are better at gaming. Laptops in general will not do video processing very well unless you pay a lot.

in addition, laptops will only really last you about 3 years before they are considered 'old' though I have HPs running that are over 10 years old and they only needed maintenance on hinges, which wore out after 5 years. The hinges on my MSI wore out in less than 2, and my Toshiba's hinges are more modern like my new HPs. It is true that gaming will put stress on them, but if they are well maintained, cleaned and not dropped very often, they will for sure last you over 3 years. I personally have never had a graphics card blow, or anything serious, though I have had HDDs and Optical drives go bad, both of those are modular and easy to replace on laptops. (HP will send you a new one too if you are under warenty. no question if they can't fix it over the internet, and they will let you do it yourself)

@ derentis

Yeah, it is a really good price, though the one I got for myself was better. The aluminum case, though adding weight, really helps the laptop stay cool,(giant heatsink) and I have noticed it is easier to clean, doesn't scratch, and seems like it would protect the laptop better if dropped. I suppose that is why Apple does it.

And you are definitely right. Keeping laptops clean is a surefire way to keep them running. Especially the vent system.

@myles

Though I agree that doing anything graphics intensive will put strain on a laptop, more than a desktop, I think you are making it more of an issue that it is. Like I said, I have been using laptops for over 12 years and still have my first one running(with linux though) and it makes an excellent dvd player. Sure hardware goes bad sometimes, but in my experience, nothing that can't be fixed if the computer is treated right and, if under warranty, for free. I have had backlights go bad, all kinds of drives, and even wifi cards, but despite what most people think, laptops can be fixed. The only thing I think is beyond fixing is a mobo, and the same goes for a desktop.

I always run games on my laptops that they don't support, and I almost never get problems with hardware falure. The only thing I will say is inevitable however, is battery failure. They always go bad on every brand I have owned, but almost never before 3 years.


Anyway, if I were you bb, and my budget was closer to $1k I would increase my specs. I would say that for $1,000 and a 15inch screen, you should get:

6-8GB ram(closer to 8 though)
1TB HDD
1GB graphics card(Geforce 500series or Radeon 7000 series. )
at least 7 Hrs of battery
probably bluray
blutooth, gigabit
i5, 3rd gen, i7 second gen, or AMD FX series.

And the best places I have found to shop, OfficeDepot, and Amazon. Tigerdirect and Newegg are nice, but you have to be really lucky to find exactly what you want. Amazon has lots of deals, and you are more likely to find what you want, but OfficeDepot is where I have bought most of my laptops. I don't know why, but they seem to have better deals than anyone else. Staples is where that one I recommended is from, but it is more of an exception to the rule. Bestbuy almost never has good deals and Walmart will always try to rip you off by selling you something that looks good but has certain features cut out to make it cheeper.


If you are a student though, check out DELL and HPs student deals. They sell a few laptops in your spec range and they give you a free Xbox 4gb with them.

posted on June 11th, 2012, 9:50 pm

well im not that well known with the use of discrete videocards. but i have 1 thing for you to consider with that and thats if you plan to use the igp of the processor with desktop use i would check if the drivers work properly in switching between igp and the discrete videocard.

and considering the amount of ram i agree with many that 8gb is better then 4gb i know i easely use more then 4 gb.
Many also mention 6 gb, but to my knowledge there are no 3 gb ram modules so that would mean having 6gb you wont be able to use it as dual channel memory and therefor i would strongly advise against that.

i personaly prefer amd processors (although often they are unfortunatly combined with lesser parts) and the new trinity apu is very promising and can probably play all current games at medium to high settings without the use of a discrete gpu but you apear to have already chosen for intel

posted on June 11th, 2012, 9:59 pm

well im not that well known with the use of discrete videocards. but i have 1 thing for you to consider with that and thats if you plan to use the igp of the processor with desktop use i would check if the drivers work properly in switching between igp and the discrete videocard.

and considering the amount of ram i agree with many that 8gb is better then 4gb i know i easely use more then 4 gb.
Many also mention 6 gb, but to my knowledge there are no 3 gb ram modules so that would mean having 6gb you wont be able to use it as dual channel memory and therefor i would strongly advise against that.

i personaly prefer amd processors (although often they are unfortunatly combined with lesser parts) and the new trinity apu is very promising and can probably play all current games at medium to high settings without the use of a discrete gpu but you apear to have already chosen for intel

6GB is actually very common. You are right that there are no 3 GB modules. Most laptops that use 6 GB are equipped with a 4GB and 2GB card with a max of 8 however I have seen some with 2 2GBs and 2 1GBs with a max of 16.

I currently use AMD as well, however as I mentioned earlier, I did research which brought me to the conclusion that Intel is better at gaming, whereas AMD is better at video processing.



@ bb

I just looked at amazon, staples, bestbuy and officedepot. Found two laptops that seem to be in your range.

http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/3 ... 0-156-LED/

http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/8 ... -Notebook/

posted on June 11th, 2012, 10:51 pm

@myles

Though I agree that doing anything graphics intensive will put strain on a laptop, more than a desktop, I think you are making it more of an issue that it is. Like I said, I have been using laptops for over 12 years and still have my first one running(with linux though) and it makes an excellent dvd player. Sure hardware goes bad sometimes, but in my experience, nothing that can't be fixed if the computer is treated right and, if under warranty, for free. I have had backlights go bad, all kinds of drives, and even wifi cards, but despite what most people think, laptops can be fixed. The only thing I think is beyond fixing is a mobo, and the same goes for a desktop.

Don't get me wrong, taxing a laptop won't make it explode and won't guarantee hardware failure, it will just make the system slower and will increase the probability of hardware failures.

the sort of things that will need fixing/cleaning after these times are the more serious tasks, that many aren't comfortable with. such as refreshing the thermal paste on your processor. Thrashing a laptop with gaming will push forward the dates at which you need to have this sort of work carried out.

i still have a desktop based on a celeron d in a socket 775, it still runs the latest firefox, just slowly. reliable computer, my first kludge, had to fit a second HDD in it upside down due to the poor design choices of the OEM and the restrictions of the barbaric IDE cables, how did we survive without SATA?

My oldest computer is a slot loading imac g3, 13 years old, still works, still won't chuck it. fond memories of cannibalising 3 other g3s to get the parts for my one, then carrying it home from school on the bus. a relic from a time when i had a modicum of respect for apple, before apple stopped being about technology and started being about marketing.

if your desktop mobo goes you can replace it too. it depends on how comfortable you are building computers. replacing the mobo takes time, lots of time. this leads to existential questions such as what must remain for you to not have changed computers. does changing the mobo count as making a "new computer".

if you're geek level is over 8000 you can even be anal about laptop mobos, rebuilding laptops. personally i'd rather buy a new laptop than fiddle that much. but then again i don't even want a new laptop.

posted on June 11th, 2012, 11:16 pm

@myles

Though I agree that doing anything graphics intensive will put strain on a laptop, more than a desktop, I think you are making it more of an issue that it is. Like I said, I have been using laptops for over 12 years and still have my first one running(with linux though) and it makes an excellent dvd player. Sure hardware goes bad sometimes, but in my experience, nothing that can't be fixed if the computer is treated right and, if under warranty, for free. I have had backlights go bad, all kinds of drives, and even wifi cards, but despite what most people think, laptops can be fixed. The only thing I think is beyond fixing is a mobo, and the same goes for a desktop.

Don't get me wrong, taxing a laptop won't make it explode and won't guarantee hardware failure, it will just make the system slower and will increase the probability of hardware failures.

the sort of things that will need fixing/cleaning after these times are the more serious tasks, that many aren't comfortable with. such as refreshing the thermal paste on your processor. Thrashing a laptop with gaming will push forward the dates at which you need to have this sort of work carried out.

i still have a desktop based on a celeron d in a socket 775, it still runs the latest firefox, just slowly. reliable computer, my first kludge, had to fit a second HDD in it upside down due to the poor design choices of the OEM and the restrictions of the barbaric IDE cables, how did we survive without SATA?

My oldest computer is a slot loading imac g3, 13 years old, still works, still won't chuck it. fond memories of cannibalising 3 other g3s to get the parts for my one, then carrying it home from school on the bus. a relic from a time when i had a modicum of respect for apple, before apple stopped being about technology and started being about marketing.

if your desktop mobo goes you can replace it too. it depends on how comfortable you are building computers. replacing the mobo takes time, lots of time. this leads to existential questions such as what must remain for you to not have changed computers. does changing the mobo count as making a "new computer".

if you're geek level is over 8000 you can even be anal about laptop mobos, rebuilding laptops. personally i'd rather buy a new laptop than fiddle that much. but then again i don't even want a new laptop.

haha yeah, I actually started modding on my only computer that had a2 on it, being pretty old already at its time. The desktop is probably close to 16 years old now, but it has had overhauls in that time. It still runs but it is so slow that it would take it a day or two to copy half its own hdd and it has two.


@ bb

looked at the Tigerdirect and Newegg.com as well. found you this laptop. It might be the best one out there for the price considering I couldn't find anything close at amazon, bestbuy, officedepot, staples, etc. You might actually want to take a look at her.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6834230257

Specs:
Intel i7 2nd gen
15.6" screen
8GB ram
750GB hdd
Nvidia Geforce GT 635M 2GB dedicated ram
$1075

Its shortcomings are that it probably has only 5-6 hrs of battery, no bluray, and it doesn't advertise gigabit.

Either way though, that is a smoking Graphics card, great processor and a ton of ram. It will not be outdated anytime soon. Also, Asus is a good brand, and you can probably buy an oversize 9-cell for it.

posted on June 12th, 2012, 1:28 am

I have a few questions to post a bit later, but before I forget. Will fleetops support windows 8? And does anyone know about whether this will be a good operating system or not? Many laptops im looking at purchasing on various sites have free upgrades to windows 8 when it comes out, im just wondering if anyone knows if its going to be another xp, or a vista?

posted on June 12th, 2012, 2:11 am

Also the ssd why do they die sooner, and how much sooner?

Just to provide a slightly more substaintial answer. SSDs die because flash media is destructive by its very nature. It basically works by shoving charges around inside the material which results in a deterioration of the material over time. The actual life span of an SSD depends on usage. If you do a lot of data writing and erasing (e.g. video editing) then they will wear faster. Conversley, if you do more reads than writes then you will get a decent time out of an SSD.

Most modern OSs are designed to spread writes around so as to equalize wear across the drive. I'd say you can expect a good 3-5 years out of an SSD. Depending on usage you might even get 7 years. Ironically, by the time it fails, you'll probably be able to replace it with something even better.

I have a few questions to post a bit later, but before I forget. Will fleetops support windows 8? And does anyone know about whether this will be a good operating system or not? Many laptops im looking at purchasing on various sites have free upgrades to windows 8 when it comes out, im just wondering if anyone knows if its going to be another xp, or a vista?

As long as you're not on an ARM platform (which a specialized version of Windows 8 called Windows RT will support), then I would expect full support. As to whether it will be a "good" system, I think depends on whether consumers can adapt to the "App" vision for desktops. Personally I think that from a consumer point of view Windows 8 will be a perfectly fine system, although there's likely to be some resistance. The only big one might be lack of DVD playback by default on all but the Professional level OS. The other thing which some might not like is that Windows RT won't support desktop programs. As some malcontents have pointed out this means that people would be "forced' into using IE as their web browser and that MS is preventing other browsers from being used. This is pure crap. It's simply that Windows RT won't support the full Win32 system, only a limited subset which has been rewritten for ARM chips. Thus any web browser needs to be rewritten as an App. This isn't MS forcing people to use IE, it's just a case of different architecture needing a different program.

However, from a developer perspective I think MS is making some mistakes which they may regret. Most notably are the following:

--Apps will only be available from an App store and Apps must be "approved"; this makes sense for a mobile platform, but not for a desktop system. I think it's a bad move on their part and will cost them in the long run.

--The Platform SDK will not include the MSVC compiler and there is not currently plans to release a free version of Visual Studio which supports desktop development. >:( Again, I think this is a HUGE mistake on their part; one I'm practically livid with. I think they've gotten a little app happy; desktop development isn't going to just roll over and die - notice that the software used to make Apps, Visual Studio, is a desktop program. Hopefully the whole App thing will just blow over in a couple years and things will go back to normal.

posted on June 12th, 2012, 2:16 am

I have a few questions to post a bit later, but before I forget. Will fleetops support windows 8? And does anyone know about whether this will be a good operating system or not? Many laptops im looking at purchasing on various sites have free upgrades to windows 8 when it comes out, im just wondering if anyone knows if its going to be another xp, or a vista?

heh, according to the M$ pattern, it has to be another ME/Vista In all seriousness though, it is an OS that is supposed to be cross-platform, to work on tablets and phones. I have seen it and honestly, it looks very little different than win7, but with less of the useful features and more garbage. I will not upgrade my laptop, but when I buy a desktop next year, hopefully I will have more experience with it to decide. The Metro UI making a PC look like a tablet just annoys me.

as for compatibility, since it is upgradeable like from vista to 7, I would say if you can run it on 7 then 8 should be fine.

posted on June 12th, 2012, 4:39 am

So how reliable is new egg? Because to me this looks like a pretty dang good deal.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200412&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&PageSize=10&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfo

posted on June 12th, 2012, 5:00 am

Its also on the microsoft site http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/en_US/pd/productID.245838000?WT.mc_id=mercent&mr:referralID=c3954d92-b446-11e1-ac63-001b2166c2c0

Is there any reason not to get this? They offer an upgrade to 8 if you pay 15, and you can get a free xbox? I've looked at dell sites as I generally like dell, and this seems to beat their deals. The 15z seems to be a lighter and thinner frame. Will 6gb of ram coupled with the 1gb nvidia graphics card and 2.8ghz I7 core cut it for what im looking for? Because unless im overlooking something , this looks like a pretty damn good deal for me! bb should take a look at this too. Ray is excited!

posted on June 12th, 2012, 5:04 am

Also, what does the processor exactly do? And I7, I5? what do these mean? And how does 2.4ghz (or whatever number) fit into that, as well as the advertised turbo charge to 3.1ghz? Whats more important, better processor or a 2gb video card, as I found the same laptop with a I5 processor but a 2gb nvidia card.

And sorry for the triple post! If only mvam was in the game, I coulda put it all in one post! But seriously sorry....

posted on June 12th, 2012, 10:12 am

Also, what does the processor exactly do? And I7, I5? what do these mean? And how does 2.4ghz (or whatever number) fit into that, as well as the advertised turbo charge to 3.1ghz? Whats more important, better processor or a 2gb video card, as I found the same laptop with a I5 processor but a 2gb nvidia card.

And sorry for the triple post! If only mvam was in the game, I coulda put it all in one post! But seriously sorry....

as i understand it the procesor interprets the programs and data and inputs. to keep it really simple i take a calculater example.

the previous answer is in its memory for example this was 1, you add 1 and ask for an answer.
the cpu reads 1 in the memory, gets the input of +1 and calculates the outcome is 2, then it sends a signal to the gpu it wants the number 2 displayed and also sends a signal to the memory to store the data for the answer 2. and the gpu then calculates what pixels of the display to activate and sends that data to the display.

ofcourse this is overly simplefied and might not be entirely correct but its the basic idea.

as for the i3/i5/i7 things is a way for intel to say which capabilities it has, i am not well versed in intel but i believe i3 never has hyperthreading (using 1 core as if it is 2 cores) but i7 always has it i think. and so there are many diferent things that might be in 1 but not in the other. it has the i7's as its 'best'/'most complete' processors. but a i3 could be better as an i7 as intel uses those indicators for the last 3 generations of processors (maybe more not sure)

the amount of hz indicates how many of the calculation cicles it can do in 1 second however how much it calculates in 1 cicle difers between diferent architectures so more hz is not always better but with 2 cpu's of the same generation it often is.

the turbo indicates that if it has the power available and is not to hot it can 'temporarly' increase the amount of hz to that number if you run a high load trough the processor, but the normal amount of hz without the turbo is a kind of guarantied amount of hz.

what is more important a gpu or cpu depends on what you do, nowadays in games i believe most often the gpu is the botleneck but in videoencoding i think the cpu and ram are often the botleneck.

the amount of ram in a gpu that is needed depends mostly on the resolution of the display and often a higher speed of memory is more beneficial then 2gb in stead of 1gb

posted on June 12th, 2012, 11:26 am

about win8: I concur fleetops should work on win8 as long as it's not the ARM version, as was said before.

what a processor is:

Processor is the brain of the computer, it is what does the work on calculating/processing/etc. ram is simply storage, it stores stuff, that's all it does. video card is a processor too, but it spends all its time working on graphics as they are hard work. video cards also have their own equivalent of ram built in, hence the mention of gigabytes in video cards.

the thing in ghz is the clock rate, these are contentious. intel always had more ghz than amd so they highlighted it more, amd were always trying to get people to ignore ghz as a measure of speed. ghz is a frequency, technically it's the frequency of a crystal in the processor ocillating, kinda like the crystal in a quartz watch oscillates to regulate time.

comparing ghz is something that should only be done between 2 processors of the same family. eg a sandy bridge core i3 vs another sandy bridge core i3. then more ghz usually means more speed, although the boosts aren't always predictable.

core i3, core i5 and core i7 are just brand names for their processors (maybe they didn't like even numbers). the higher the number the higher the price and higher performance (when comparing processors from same generation).

we are currently on 3rd gen core i3/5/7 processors, called ivy bridge. the last generation came out last year and was called sandy bridge. don't get anything older than sandy bridge. you can tell what generation the processor is in by the number. i have a core i3 2120, 4 digits and the first is a 2, that indicates sandy bridge. older than sandy bridge and you only have 3 digits. ivy bridge have 4 digits too, but the first is always a 3, eg 3xxx.

pre sandy bridge: xxx
sandy bridge: 2xxx
ivy bridge: 3xxx

amd have been pathetic recently on performance (they went for good integrated graphics), so intel have not been pressured very much, so ivy bridge isn't far ahead of sandy bridge on performance, only on power/thermals. sandy bridge is still being sold because sandy bridge was a real advance.

about hyperthreading:
I'm afraid you have it incorrect the keeper, hyperthreading isn't determined by i3/i5/i7 name. i have a core i3 2120 with 2 physical cores, and hyperthreading, giving 4 logical cores.

the main features are shared, such as x64 support, NX bit, hardware virtualisation between all 3 core i3/5/7 processors. hyperthreading is given on some, but not on others.

games are restricted by gpu these days, most games will be happy with any recent dual core.

about that laptop you posted: if you can wait for ivy bridge to make a bigger dent in the coming months then you will benefit from longer battery life and less heat. that's a big advantage of ivy bridge, good for laptops. but what you've suggested will be more than capable of recording fleetops at least, and should stand up to other games.