Scout Me In

posted on February 11th, 2012, 12:12 pm

Cheaper scouts with faster build times also allows for one of my favorite stunts.  Build a few early scouts, set their protective stuff on, and throw them into 'search' mode.  (The initial scout, on the other hand, gets used more intelligently.)

That way, your opponent never knows when a scout will just swoop by, even when you're busy handling something somewhere else.

that could get expensive, they didn't say scouts will cost less. if the enemy sees a scout they will go after it.

a question, will pushing the search and kill hotkey (k) cause ships to shoot scouts? as if the scout is going fast, it might be difficult to click on it.

posted on February 11th, 2012, 3:05 pm

Grey-mode would only be effective, if the color-icon on the mini-map is also hidden from the enemy player. What is the use of the scout, if he could spot it on the minimap, even while grey?

Just an idea for the sake of being "complete".

This also brings in the idea of nebulas for hiding. Set in a scout in a debris field and make it nearly impossible to see. Then again, a cloaking detection should reveal the scout too. When it can see cloaked ships, it should also be possible to make grey ships visible.

[godsvoice]

posted on February 11th, 2012, 3:19 pm

Last edited by godsvoice on February 11th, 2012, 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I would guess 'no' using hotkey k won't necessarily result in scout targeting, and furthermore, it makes perfect sense that grey mode still shows up on the enemies minimap

All grey mode is saying, is that ships won't auto-target your scout, same with stations. It's running on low power, almost like stealth mode, so the only way to catch the scout is for the player to actively attack it. It still makes sense that it shows up on the minimap though. It won't set off any gun firing noises, or alerts or any sound to alert the player. Either the player is watching the minimap and he sees the enemy coloured spot moving about or he doesn't. And if he does see it without the alarms, he has to stop whatever he is doing and take the time to manually manage all his stations and vessels to engage the scout that is showing up on their sensors. It's perfect.

On the other hand, I do have a related question: what does grey mode to vs AI. If I have my fed scout on grey mode against a merciless AI, are the AI units able to 'target' the vessel, as there is no higher intelligence to suggest a 'I'm paying attention' moment. I would like grey mode to be effective against AI's, and that they not target me, unless some active or passive was input to allow a 'detect grey mode scouts'.

Edit: Even with an 'upgradable' version where the scout might be able to 'disappear' even more and take away the coloured spot from the minimap, that would make it comparably op to even the cloaked scout. A cloaked scout is just a matter of pressing a sensor station ping, and then you do get a coloured spot to help you locate it. So unless there was some method to have a detection that allowed you to see a grey mode scout that doesn't have a coloured spot then it would be indescribably difficult to locate a scout. You would need to manually spend minutes going over every spot of your visible sensor range looking for a small little scout without a coloured blob to help you. That would be overly effective, and I don't think that is the way to go with this. Er wait, were we getting a grey mode detect with this too? I feel it would be unnecessary with the coloured spot for human detection, but perhaps for what Myles was saying, something to have ships on s & d, or for turrets to auto target.

Perhaps having a sensor station upgrade in proximity to a turret firing station allows for detection of grey mode.

Otherwise, most points might just need to wait till the patch comes out. I'm hoping for Feb-Marchish, is what I was thinking back in December. Now that that moment is here... I dunno. Hopefully before the summer. In Canada in my parts, we've hardly had a winter. It's been Fall..... Fall.... 1 day winter... Fall.... Spring... Spring... Fall... 2 days winter... Spring... Fall.... Ridiculously warm weather and rain. With a a few days of cold and snow here and there. But really, I think we've had like 10 days of snow... the whole year. Its crazy.

posted on February 11th, 2012, 3:29 pm

I just thought of something disturbing.

Will it be possible for a human who sees a scout in grey-mode to order his starbase or other turret to fire on it?  Because it not, this will make all stationary defenses permanently useless against scouts, and allow a gray-mode scout to just fly wherever it wants.

I don't know how hard it would be, but perhaps it would be possible to simply reduce the targeting range against grey-mode by 2 increments, so medium-range ships still autotarget it if it gets within dogfight range, and long-range weapons will fire at short range.  Otherwise you will likely be able to hide your scout INSIDE the enemy fleet, and the enemy has serious trouble targeting it without shooting his own ships.

posted on February 11th, 2012, 3:39 pm

all automated defences can't be controlled by the player, so i presume that you are correct, grey mode scouts will be invulnerable to turrets/bases.

personally i am ok with this, as they have far reduced speed (now only as fast as a fast destroyer). it means that they can only be caught by fleets and effort, rather than just happening to see one on screen when you are adding to the build queue.

maybe they could make it that if a scout is in sensor range of automated defences for more than x seconds, that then it gets shot, as the stupid turret computer finally figures out it is being duped. would prevent leaving scouts unattended for ages.

posted on February 11th, 2012, 3:46 pm

Oh, I just made an edit somewhat about that on my last post.

I think having a turret and a sensor station together should be enough to counter grey mode. Give the sensor station something that allows it to assist the turret in targeting and destroying the scout... perhaps after x seconds, or if it is extremely close. I.e dogfight range for medium vessels, or short/medium range on a long vessel. etc as the last two posters were suggesting.

posted on February 11th, 2012, 3:58 pm

sensor stations are mostly dirt cheap and cover large areas. so all players would have to do is throw one down to make grey mode useless if they allowed instant auto targeting.

it would have to be done with limits, i like your idea of the sensor allowing shooting after x seconds. and without the sensor the turret can shoot after 2x seconds. so sensors improve your defence against grey mode, but don't make grey mode useless.

posted on February 11th, 2012, 4:03 pm

Yes.

At the same time, don't make sensor stations useless. I built that sensor station for a reason.

I don't mind that grey mode is trying to counteract normal ship or station turret sensors, but a sensor station still can't track it?

Maybe just the normal sensor station, but I'm thinking something to do with a sensor station, not a tachyon ping, but something, should make grey mode detectable.

posted on February 11th, 2012, 4:08 pm

problem is that sensor stations are real easy to get, have you ever seen a good klingon player make a scout station forest? most are really cheap. maybe the more expensive ones could give a better bonus, reducing the x seconds needed of seeing the scout before allowing turrets to shoot.

hyperspace sensor would then have x be really low, as it's a serious investment. the dominion sensor station would also have x be lower than the fed/klink, but still not as low as hyperspace.

posted on February 11th, 2012, 4:15 pm

'x seconds' related to cost and time to build seems fair.

posted on February 11th, 2012, 6:18 pm

LOL - Can't Wait!

I can't wait to troll using some borg specials such as, boarding party, blue assim beam(assimilator beam), green assim beam (holding beam), and dode's special that has 14% chance to disable life support to capture scouts in "grey" mode..


Free Scouts for the borg! 

posted on February 11th, 2012, 6:30 pm

Hehe, faster construction time for Scouts seems nice. I'll go for some Scouthunting with my NoQ'Dujs, finally their passive will be worth something .

I'm a bit worried about this link sensor/weapon range. I hope it goes along with a vast cost increase or damage decrease for long ranged ships. And I hope the Klingons finally get a decent long range counter to kill those long range watchers. I hope the B'rel will be able to do it once it's not autotargeted anymore. 

posted on February 11th, 2012, 7:12 pm

The AI ignores Grey Mode scouts entirely, so Search and Destroy, turret targeting, and the "real" AI will not attack these vessels.

Yes, having Sensor Stations have an effect on Grey Mode scouts is a good idea  :thumbsup:

The Venture really needs to say "Run silent run deep." when you activate grey mode.
Pwease?

Sounds like a fun idea, noted .

posted on February 11th, 2012, 7:22 pm

Yes, having Sensor Stations have an effect on Grey Mode scouts is a good idea  :thumbsup:

i still think starbases should eventually shoot at grey mode scouts after a time, even without sensor stations. some person on that base has eventually got to look out a window or notice the faint sensor trace on a routine scan. maybe after a really long time, and add a random component, such as random time between 30 and 60 seconds, with a roughly normal distribution centred around 45 seconds. that way you can't just leave a scout in your enemy's main base forever, but you can still get a good look with little effort.

posted on February 11th, 2012, 8:08 pm

Perhaps an xpercentile chance of spotting the ship?

I wonder if making consecutive shots more accurate against them would be possible.