Defiant Type Mod

I want my 15 rapid-fire quantum torpedo launchers Uber-Defiant now! - Get help from modders. Share your work. Discuss modifications.
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posted on December 22nd, 2010, 9:30 am
Err... I have to warn you, I'm almost sure that DJ won't give you permission to release that ship... At some point in 2008 IIRC he stated that he does not allows any port, redo, re-release of his ships to any games.
Fortunately I already made an Armada II version of the Valiant class (http://armada2.filefront.com/file/Valiant_Class;91866) and there is already an FO conversion (http://armada2.filefront.com/file/Valiant_Class;104399).
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 6:40 pm
Last edited by 086gf on December 22nd, 2010, 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah you even need premission from DJ last I checked to even show off what you have modified.

USERNAME: DJ Curtis

GENERAL POLICY: I am not currently authorizing the release of derivative works.

CONVERSION POLICY: I am not currently authorizing the conversion of any of my work.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 02:24:54 AM by DJ Curtis » 


Which means no modifications at all that can be publicly released. I know its not there but he has absolutely stated on many occations that you can't even show off what you have done until you ask.
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 7:02 pm
May I make a suggestion? I believe that we need something new on the dorsal hull. I just think that the dorsal hull could use a feature to make your ship more distinct.
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 7:24 pm
tbh dj can only bad rereleases or modifcations to his meshes/textures he cnt ban a copy of the design if built from scratch unless he paitented the design
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 7:28 pm
Obviously this is true but is not the case here.
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 8:05 pm
I heard that he was strict about it but i didnt know that he wasnt going to let anyone release it. I read the readme again and it didnt say that i couldnt post pictures so im going to post my final pictures of it.

Attachments

Defiant type 08.png
Defiant type 09.png
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 9:44 pm
k_merse wrote:Err... I have to warn you, I'm almost sure that DJ won't give you permission to release that ship... At some point in 2008 IIRC he stated that he does not allows any port, redo, re-release of his ships to any games.
Fortunately I already made an Armada II version of the Valiant class (http://armada2.filefront.com/file/Valiant_Class;91866) and there is already an FO conversion (http://armada2.filefront.com/file/Valiant_Class;104399).


So what is your opinion of us doing the century mod?  I figured that since he already gave you permission, it was fine now right?
posted on December 23rd, 2010, 2:25 am
Last edited by Anonymous on December 23rd, 2010, 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
My opinion about the issue with the Century and the Valiant Classes.

The original design belongs to DJ's authority so you have to give credits to him. You also need to give him credits for the textures as I only edited them to fit to the Armada II model.
However, both the Century and the Valiant models for Armada II are my work and so they belong to me. If you want to port the ships from Armada II to FO, you'll need my permission which would be granted with the conditions of giving proper credits both DJ and me. That means that you would have to state in the readme that this is only a port, the original one was done by me, based on DJ's work.
Permission of porting includes the necessary edits in the model (adding glowies), the textures (if the lightmap would be used a different way) and the ODF, because they HAS TO BE DONE for properly porting the ship, but excludes changing the model or changing the textures more than it's necessary. This is nothing to do with DJ as long as you give him the deserved credits, as you're using my work.
This means that porting my Armada II Century to FO - which is the case in the current Century project - needs only an expressed permission from me, but needs to be credited both to me and DJ. So the project may continue.

For making a kitbash - which is the case of the Defiant Type Mod - is very similar. The model for Armada II was made by me, so if you want to change it, you need only expressed permission from me. In this case permission includes the modifying of the model, adding glows and the necessary edits of the textures. You have to state in your readme that your work is a kitbash of my original, which was based on DJ's work.
If Dircome would restart his project and he would ask me for permission (which would be granted) he would be allowed to realize his vision. So the project may be restarted and finished.

Both projects involve models which are built by me and so they're my authority. They would use textures which I used so if I give permission to port/kitbash my work, it's obvious that the permission includes the use of the textures used by my models or they couldn't be appropriately used.
It would be a more delicate situation of someone would want to make a retexture for the ships, but it's not the case here.

Also, you have to distinct a port from a conversion!
Porting a model/ship to another game means that you don't change the model and only make the textures fit to the other game (i.e.: converting them from .bmp to .tga).
Converting a model/ship to another game means that you create a new model and make new textures/edit the existing ones so they would fit to the new model.
In the first case, you didn't do anything original with the model or the textures and a third party would need permission from the original author. In the second case, you made an original model and (half-)original textures, and a third party needs only your permission for using/kitbashing/adding to a mod/editing the ship, as it's your work. But still, you'll have to give the proper credits to the original author. This stands as long as the third party stays on the same platform that your conversion uses (in our case this stands, as FleetOps uses Armada II, but it wouldn't stand of someone would want to port the ships to Legacy).

The Century and Valiant Classes for Armada II are conversions and not edits or ports.

I will stick to this opinion and will act accordingly from now on.
posted on December 23rd, 2010, 3:10 am
I agree.  I will continue the century project and will comply with all stated rules unless DJ himself comes out and says we can't.  What comes with this is that if that were to happen, none of it is my fault, it is yours.  :P  (jk)

Thank you for clarifying, and I hope everyone is happy now. :whistling:
posted on December 23rd, 2010, 4:04 am
Well i was originally using the Bridge commander version of the are you saying that the A2 model was made by you?? Im sure you expained but im feeling rather brain dead right now.
posted on December 23rd, 2010, 4:08 am
the BC one was made by DJ, the a2 one was just converted with permission by k, the problem is that DJ doesn't allow that anymore, but we think it is ok if you just mod the one k already did because he had permission.  You won't be able to do another conversion because DJ says no.
posted on December 23rd, 2010, 5:24 am
Ok i think i understand but i dont have to tools to open a SOD so im still at a bit of a dead end.
posted on December 23rd, 2010, 9:31 am
Actually, k_merse, DJ's wording is correct. "Conversion" is the same as "port" in this situation, as the definition of "convert" means changing, not creating. What you've done, though, is a "remake", creating a new one from scratch, which is not banned.

But if DJ does not want you to release this, it would be very bad tact to do so. Not against the rules, but you should respect his wishes.
posted on December 23rd, 2010, 10:22 am
I have to contradict you. If you make a new model, then it's yours. If you used something as a reference when you created it, you have to give credits. But if someone wants to use your work, why should he ask for permission from the original author? Just imagine: You want to use a ship for your A2 mod which was converted from BC, but even that model was based on someone else's work. Then you would have to ask for three permissions? One from the Armada II converter, one from the one who made it for BC and one from the original author? How long should you follow that chain back?
posted on December 23rd, 2010, 1:06 pm
Last edited by Atlantis on December 23rd, 2010, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Firstly, your model uses his textures. Just because you made the model doesn't make the texture yours too; the texture is just as important. That means it is not just yours; it's his too. So yes, you do need to credit him.

Secondly, design creators do need crediting. Always show your referencing. It's not a rule, it's just good form. So yes, you should credit him.

Thirdly, I see a lot of talk about crediting, but don't recall seeing one mention of asking permission (I may be wrong though)... Has anyone even asked him? So instead of wasting time on this thread discussing it amongst ourselves, go ask him! Then you'll know for sure. I know you're scared he'll say no, and my bet is you'll go ahead anyway, but that's your choice, I'm only advising you what is RIGHT.
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