Where are the Fek'lhr, Raptor and SuQ'Jagh?

[Triarii]

posted on January 13th, 2008, 2:52 pm

Last edited by Triarii on January 13th, 2008, 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pretty simple question really. Why were none of these ships included in Fleet Operations? Sure none of them are canon, but all three are fan favorites and other non-canon ships (such as the Shrike) from Aramda I (and II) have been included... and the Assimilator's going to be included in V3.0 as well, so why were these ships left out?

And while I'm at it, why does a ship as tiny as the Sang class have a crew of 100, and why is the Tompey class just a K'Tinga frame with some crap stuck to the boom?

[Anonymous]

posted on January 13th, 2008, 3:17 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on January 13th, 2008, 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Tompey is meant to be a modified K't'inga chassis (in fact it has a special ability which allows it to dump its pods and turn into a K't'inga).

The Sang probably is a bit too small for 100, but of course the Klingons dont demand all the luxuries other races have on their ships, so they've got more room to play with. Think of Klingon ships as all being like the Defiant; bred for war and nothing else.

As for the A1 ships you mentioned, they were likely old designs mothballed in favor of newer ship designs. They may still be in service with reserve fleets and the like, but the front line forces (which is what the player commands) no longer make use of them, especially the Fek'Lhr, which is one of my faverioute ships, but would not be loved as much by a Klingon as it ain't a true warship as opposed to the newer support cruisers.

That is the nature of vessel design; some remain effective and survive for centuries (like the BoP and K't'inga), while others are outmoded by changing requirements and technology (The Galaxy-class was first made in 2360, yet by as early as 2373 the Sovereign class is already replacing it as flagship of Starfleet's forces).

Don't give up hope though; i'd bet alot of the unused A1 ships will appear as "uncommon" ships or avatar units anyway.

[Triarii]

posted on January 13th, 2008, 4:02 pm

Last edited by Triarii on January 13th, 2008, 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Sang probably is a bit too small for 100, but of course the Klingons dont demand all the luxuries other races have on their ships, so they've got more room to play with. Think of Klingon ships as all being like the Defiant; bred for war and nothing else.

I don't care how few creature comforts it has, you just couldn't fit 100 Klingon crewman into a ship smaller than a Bird of Prey! I'll have you know that, in canon, the B'rel only has a crew of 12, and the Defiant a crew of less than 50...

As for the A1 ships you mentioned, they were likely old designs mothballed in favor of newer ship designs.

That just doesn't make sense... In Starfleet Command III (which is very much a post Dominion War game, as are Armadas I and II let me remind you), the Fek'Lhr is a well armed and armoured Klingon heavy cruiser. In regards to its rather less mundane Armada support role, the manual states that the Fek'lhr's equipment is highly unpredictable, suggesting that it is quite new and has teething problems... Two fo the three specail weapons on the Fleet Ops ships that effectively replaced it (the Qaw'Duj), the Sword of Khaless and the Polarising Torpedo are extremely similar to the Aramda I Fek'lhr's Death Chant and Energy Disappator respectively. If the science ship weaponry (the Bor'tas has the Fek'lhr's ion storm) is mostly updated versions of the Fek'lhr's weaponry from Armada I, why did the Klingons feel they needed to use a completely new platform? Why not just replace the Qaw'Duj's name and on-screen model with the Fek'lhr and be done with it?

Also, in SFC III, the Raptor is a heavy battlecruiser equipped with all the latest bells and whistles, almost the Romulan answer to the Sovereign! And even if it is just a tiny artillery ship like in Aramda I and II, it's not like Fleet Ops is set some incredibly long time after those games (probably five years at most if, for exmaple, Armada I is set in 2377 and Fleet Ops is set in 2382, putting it a few years after Star Trek: Nemesis, which was set in 2379). Indeed, according to the Armada I manual, the Steamrunner class began production in 2371. The Romulans then subsequently duplicated that class' tricobalt torpedo artillery, meaning that the Raptor, by the time of a Fleet Operations set in 2382, is an absolute maximum of a decade old (and probably a number of years less). So, yea, why remove a perfectly good (and well liked ship) from the Romulan lineup?

Finally, the SuQ'Jagh isn't in SFC III, but the Armada I manual says it was created 'during the last Klingon expansion campaign', which probably puts it sometimes in the Klingon/Federation cold war era (around the time of Star Trek: VI), meaning its not as old as the K'T'inga (though still quite dated). The manual says, the SuQ'Jagh was refitted for ship-to-ship combat, so the design certainly wasn't a faliure since the Klingons bothered to refit it rather than take it out of service. Again, sice there are at most a few years between A 1 and Fleet Ops, why remove a perfectly good design? I really like the Suq'Jach...

So, yea, I don't think it makes any sense that any of these three ships should not appear in Fleet Ops. I think the designers were just looking for an excuse to use more of their own designs, and hoping that no one would notice. Well, I noticed... >:(

posted on January 13th, 2008, 4:06 pm

Yep, the Fek'Lhr's definitely a modern design, and the Sovereign didn't replace the galaxy class, it was a whole new concept, so I do agree it's purpose was different, but with the purpose of diversifying the fleet so it was better equipped to face newer threats. In that episode where voyager crashes out of the slipstream (I forget what it's called), there's a storline 15 years in the future and the galaxy class is still in service, no doubt retrofitted with some nice new toys  .

[Triarii]

posted on January 13th, 2008, 4:29 pm

Last edited by Triarii on January 13th, 2008, 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Exacatly. in Star Trek, like in real life, ships don't just go in and out of service over the course of a few years... the M1 Abrams (I know, its not a ship, but still...), has been around for over 3 decades and the USS Enteprise CVN-65 has been in service since 1960 and is not scheduled to be decomissioned for almost another decade. Trek ship seem to last even longer. The Miranda, K'T'inga and B'Rel all lasted for over a century...

I never said the Sovereign replaced the Galaxy, by the way. All I said was that, based on how I interprited its description in the SFC III manual, that, like the Sovereign, it is a new design equipped with the very latest in Romulan gadgetry, just as the Sovereign is equipped with the latest in Federation gadgetry...

posted on January 13th, 2008, 5:06 pm

The Topmey class is only a refitted K't'inga, as already mentioned you can even transfer her into one. Even a Klingon mining crew wants a small Disruptor at hand
The Kiting was replaced with the latest release of its technological line, the K´beajQ, so the K't'inga will only be available via dispatching the Topmey's cargo.

The current Sang model is only a placeholder model ind will be replaced with a less tiny, more advanced model someday one of the last beta1 models floating around

As the Fleet Operations universe began to evolve and has been created we based it completely on show material. Some "external" stuff has already been added, like the Shrike and the Griffin after many fans wanted them after the Beta1 release. Some other Armada1 oldies might come in the future, but their are no precise plans at the moment

posted on January 13th, 2008, 5:44 pm

If Fleet Operations consisted of a fleet of refuse trucks it would still be vastly superior to stock A2, so I think the actual models are a relatively minor consideration, although interesting as a discussion point. In fact it does seem that one of the strengths of this mod is the fact that you listen to our concerns and accomodate them if possible.

So, bravo and keep up the good work. 

posted on January 13th, 2008, 7:00 pm

The Fekihr is the best candidate in the moment to become a more science-orientated vessel for a future klingon avatar (science ships for the klingons seem to be rare either way )

posted on January 14th, 2008, 3:09 am

Thank goodness... By the way, what are you doing about the voices? The horrible A2 Klingon and Romulan voices prevent me from fully enjoying these two races... I mean, I replaced the Construction ship, mining freighter and scout voices with their Armada I counterparts no problem, but the only way I can think of to fix the combat ships would be to give a number of units the same voice, which would quickly get boring...

So, yea, what do you plan to do about the voices for the final release of V 3.0?

[Anonymous]

posted on January 14th, 2008, 3:14 am

Last edited by Anonymous on January 14th, 2008, 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I found the v3 PR voices to be pretty decent. Seems the guys have used the Armada voices too.
Although the mod is pretty professional, I don't think they have a dubbing studio. The voices are going to be redos for the most part.

posted on January 14th, 2008, 9:51 am

hm, i don't see a problem with the romulan, klingon and federation voices from armada2. They are okay. There are currently no plans to replace them.

posted on January 14th, 2008, 10:47 am

Great...

posted on January 14th, 2008, 3:19 pm

again, feel free to send in some voice sets if you have something up your sleeve
the voicesets are ok imho, but there is always space for improvements

posted on January 14th, 2008, 4:08 pm

*Groan* I wish I could get into the voice sets for New Worlds... I mean, at least the voices in that game sounded enthusiastic... It's the lack of enthusiasm (and, subsequently, effort) that I hate in Aramada II's voices...

Another one might be the voice sets from Birth of the Federation... now those were really good... too bad I have no idea how to acess them (and indeed, I know that BotF is infamous for beign mod resistant).

posted on January 14th, 2008, 4:31 pm

yea, remember that you need alot of voices for armads different actions, let it be select, move, attack, stop, repair - where for the first three types there should be atleast 4 different sound files each...