Im Back

posted on January 17th, 2010, 1:05 am

Hey guys, im back Armada 2 reistalled, fleetops 3.10 dowloaded ready to go.  Ive havent been on here in a while, but i recently started observing and alas the new version is out, played 3 games vs pc, and i got some thoughts abot the new verison, ill make a bigger post soon enough.

So to start off, this is one of the more important things, last year, alot of the discussion around here became kinda...... heated,  alot of dissing and stuff, i know some people left cus of it, im just hoping that we can avoid that now and move on.

BALANCING  On to my second thing, ive recently noticed alot of people complaining about balance, and some are people i havent seen before so im assuming that they may be new and less experienced, but this is to everyone:

I know it can be annoying when your facing someone and they are just effortlesely killing you off, and this isnt the type of there some much better then me, it seems like there cheating, so you think its the balancing issues, but i belive that its probaly not, fleet ops team has really done a good job of balancing, somtimes you got to reconsider your stratagy, i sucked and was getting creamed in fleet ops as feds, i was sure it was balacing, and that the feds needed to be stronger, (tho i still think they need some late game) however i was wrong and dominus (i hope i finally learned how to spell it) showed me how to use special weapons and how to change up my stratagy, and then i beat him, and ive gotten alot better.

So please, before you accuse the balancing, take a look at your stratagy, and ask what you can do differently, and we wil try to help your stratagy, also look at the guide, i cant say ive really read that much of it, but the little i did, its good stuff, tho there too much opinion in it i think....

So on to other stuff, my few questions and coments and ive gonna open up some new topics for some of the following

Okay first off to those who say that warp-in is so unfair, and you made a poll to try to get rid of it WTF warp in is fine, so stop trying to take away the only thing that we have thats unique, the feds need warp in, and honestly, warp in for fedies starts to suck bout the time that we can get excelsior mk 2s, the warp in ships arnt so powerful, so stop complaining you cloaking bug spamming inteligence gathering oversized super powerful cube shaped people, i mean come on, as i just said, klingon and roms have cloak and all that good stuff and i forget what the dominions got, but you can go trying to take away warp in, learn to use your races strong points, you cant go trying to dumb down all the other races

Also on warp in, itd be cool if you could ad a few more ships, aka constitution, constution refit, constelation, like that maybye even that weird ship with the ball and nacels, idk the name

Also, an idea i recently say a galaxy mk two on the site, you all know id love to make some sort of galaxy, and id love the miranda mk to be produced without other races, probably wont happen so, what if there was a galaxy mk 2 mixed tech, constitution mk 2 for mixed tech, and then a constelation mk2 mixed tech, or somthing like that

Also whatever happened to the special weapon you used to be able to get for torpedo turrets

Okay also for online games, what we using now, hamachi?

So for the last thing anybody up for game?

kk thats all for now

Also, this is the final thing, on Zeichs blog, he designed a Galaxy class, he said he had deisigned the stardrive and the saucer, as if they were apart, i noticed the ship model in the game cant be in two parts though it looks like it could be a galaxy,

so there is a ship in the game that i dont know what to call, it almost reminds me of a Galaxy class, its kinda familiar, but the problem is, it isnt a galaxy class, so i think you guys need to put the Galaxy class in the game,

Uknown ship + saucer seperation = Galaxy Class

posted on January 17th, 2010, 1:20 am

Hey ray long time no see. Come play online with us we now use wippien check the page for some info on how to set it up.

posted on January 17th, 2010, 1:23 am

that weird ship with the ball and nacels, idk the name

Daedalus.

----

And hey Ray, welcome back =)

posted on January 17th, 2010, 8:29 pm

Daedulus or Olympic.

Ray, there is a Galaxy Class in game and it is the one Zeich posted.

But yeah it's nice to have you back Wippien is the way forward for multiplayer Remember to get round to downloading it

posted on January 17th, 2010, 8:31 pm

Hey welcome back  Ray

posted on January 17th, 2010, 8:32 pm

Ray, there is a Galaxy Class in game and it is the one Zeich posted.

The one in-game now is the blog one? It looked much better in the blog...

posted on January 17th, 2010, 8:58 pm

I agree

posted on January 17th, 2010, 9:00 pm

Hi Ray!

 Didn't know you before but welcome back.

 We mostly use Wippien for online play but it is a harsh mistress and we frustrate you QUICKLY and FREQUENTLY.  Just know that we all experience issues with it, but it's allowed us lots of great games

 Regarding the Warp-in, that poll was created pre-3.1.  The Warp-in was really part of a larger issue that we started to discover which was that the Feds have such lower costs overall in resources and supplies that they can FAR outproduce anyone else.  That's really the new issue as we see the excellent new features of 3.1 get played around with.
 Pre-3.1 the issue was that Mayson could just ignore building anything but Sabers, Excel Mk 2's, and free Warp-ins because he gets them so quickly.  This is a resource and supply boon that no other faction comes close to.  He is able to use that extra money to spam torpedo turrets and easily overpowers any other faction.  Even players not as skilled can win simply by turtling with Warp-ins and Torp Turrets before walking a line of torpedoes towards their enemies with Excel II's.
 Post-3.1 the Excel II isn't such an issue anymore as it is VERY slow and vulnerable to interceptors, but the fact remains that they can reach a "Critical Mass" as we're calling it nowadays where that is no longer an issue.  Mayson specifically is still a huge beast, but all the frameworks are in place to make him balanced.  Now we just have to figure out which way is best to do that.  

  Thus, the Warp-in is more or less fine now as the most common ship (the Excel I) is no longer a "kiter", meaning a fast ship with long range weapons that can always stay out of range and run.  However it has turned us onto the notion that the Feds truly do have such a difference in resources costs than the other factions.  That's next!

 Hope to see you playing with us soon!  There are lots of people online these days.

posted on January 17th, 2010, 9:05 pm

He's back!

Ray, the warp in poll was meant to be a half-serious joke.  If you look at what Tom wrote, it looks like the kind of thing a politician would do to drum up support.  A lot of us had a good laugh, and hopefully we'll show a you-tube vid of what we mean on how good federation resources are.

posted on January 17th, 2010, 9:57 pm

Daedulus or Olympic.

Ray, there is a Galaxy Class in game and it is the one Zeich posted.

But yeah it's nice to have you back Wippien is the way forward for multiplayer Remember to get round to downloading it

That was kinda the point, because a galaxy class isnt a galaxy without saucer seperation, i was saying that they should put seperation in the game as zeich did design the model as seperated, if you didnt pick up on that

As to Boggz, when i posted on your post, i wasnt trying to just bash your ideas away, i just disagreed and didnt have time to explain,

The thing with warp in, is i feel like i have to use it to win, or even get started, i never have felt like there is an alternative thus i have to rely, generally my build order is my two moons, and then i will send one contructor to the other set of two moons, and the other will build a shipyard (and ill build 2-3 sabers till , after the shipyard the i go to starfleet science and warp in, and usually right as i finish warp in, i shall get attacked, and i use warp in to fend them off,

I use warp in to keep me safe, i just dont feel that the saber can protect me, and they seem to have lost speed in this version, i dont think there strong enough to go against others, specialy if there spamming bugs or are using cloak, and there specials dont help any fending off, the problem is that the warp in stratagy, starting from shipyard is shipyard, starfleet science, warpin, and then the warp in ships come, trying to get another chasiss, is shipyard, starfleet enginering, chassis one, and then you get to build a ship, so it takes longer, and now you have like 4 sabers, and are just starting an intrepid, and i dont think that stratagy would work, i can try it, but i dont think itd work, its to difficult to get out good ships that can counter alot of kvorts and stuff when they can jut swarm you and attack, itd be one thing if they didnt start out with cloak, but you think of it, its like they start out with a special and everyone else doesnt

mainly i just dont think that saber can stand up, to the producing power of kligons, to the brute of borg, and yeah, maybye a good fix could be saber production speed up, and maybye no chassis research for moosoon, then youd have a ship that could stand up, afterall doesnt even one say the feds are the defensive ones,

as for warp in i wish the excelsior was still as fast, in warp in i didnt and still dont rely on excelsiors, i used to pair them up with sabers, and try to get expirience and then just use them as quick scouts, or to guard my base, and be able to come help my fleet really fast, i use the ambasador, as with its special it is a good defensive ship that can stand up to a beating until help arrives,

and before i forget about this, for the auto special weapon, is there a way that we could get that to have more options, so that we could set support ships to use a certain special weapon, and stuff like that

also, what happend to the turret special weapon?

i just dont want to see the feds waterd down,

And mal we got to play, that game vs dominus and the other guy, is still the best game that ive ever played, and im sure dominus is rolling his eyes as i say it, but seriously that was a great comeback, i love miranda mk2s those are my favorite ships.....

also as to wippien, i know theres a big list, but i dont want to take time to add all of those names, so could the people play, just post your wippien here or add me

im ray320@wippien.com

otherwise ill just have to go to the list.......

posted on January 17th, 2010, 10:21 pm

Lol.  Well you don't have to add the whole list, just use Tom's tool.  It will add them all for you.  Btw:  WE all had to add them so YOU have to as well .  There's already a post with everyone's wippien in it.

  Well 3.1 was a major gameplay changing patch.  One of the biggest things it fixed was the ability to "Kite".  Kiting was a fast vessel with long range that could engage enemies while disengaging at the same time with no danger of being caught.  Basically instead of attacking head on they would fly in from the side so that they JUST got within range but could disengage immediately.
 
  It sucked.  Many vessels were made useless because of this and the Feds completely owned because nearly all their vessels had 360 degree firing arcs.  That allowed them to kite easily.  Sabers were one of the best examples because it was the fastest destroyer with long range and could dodge anything but beams.  Spamming them was really a frightening enemy.  The Saber has been left behind in this patch, but don't worry because Optec has already said he's going to give the Saber some love in the next update.  For now we just have to be patient.

  In terms of a Fed strategy the Warp-in is actually not NEARLY as powerful as it was before.  Because the Excel's are slower now they are excellent at bombarding with their powerful torpedoes.  They aren't so effective against other vessels anymore, but if you happen to attack your opponents mining they can sit far away and toss torpedoes at the mining vessels or the station while your short range vessels wait for the enemies to come out and engage your Excel's .  Awesome tactical requirements if you ask me.

  Try this:  instead of sending your builder to make an expansion right away get your main base set. 
For Risner:
- Mining
- Shipyard
- Mining
- Engineering
- Shipyard

Then you can expand.  OR...
Risner:
- Mining
- Shipyard
- Mining
- Science
- Engineering
- SFC

The way resources and times are set up Risner can use the second build order and do each of those with almost no stopping.  Once engineering is up you can research the first Chassis because it's cheaper than Mayson.  That way you should have Monsoons or Intrepids rolling out right around the time your first Warp-in arrives! This is a pretty good order and though it isn't as fast as the Dominion or the Klingons, it will set you up with strong vessels and a well-rounded fleet to begin expanding and pushing.

  I suggest playing Risner as much as possible.  Risner can't build as quickly as Mayson and you'll get a better feel for how you need to use your Fed vessels instead of just massing a few types.

posted on January 17th, 2010, 11:46 pm

Thansk boggz, yeah i usually use mayson and do very well with him, but ive always wanted to do risener, but she kinda hard to use before, and yeah..... intrepids dont see to be very good so i dont build them often, but ill try risner, she just doesnt seem to be as good as mayson,

also i got mixed tech with dominion yesterday and i noticd the passive ability for miranda mk2s is gone it was somthing like shios with offense below its defense are less efective against that, i think that needs to be put back on

and excels, they just seem weak to me, there offense isnt that good, and there defense is less the an intrepid i think, so they get detroyed easily

posted on January 17th, 2010, 11:52 pm

risner's avalon also no longer needs chassis to be built, and automatically launches free fighters, so it might be better in combat

posted on January 18th, 2010, 12:07 am

The Intrepids are surprisingly good now.  They have very powerful phasers and especially torpedoes for their size.  They are also extremely fast just like the Monsoon (150 each) which sometimes doesn't make so much of a difference against the AI (as vessels don't do much dogfighting or tactical retreating and such), but online the fast vessels help you control the map.  That plus their Tricobalt torpedoes used in groups of 5 or more can make a great opening strike on a turret or a mining station, or in a pinch will do well to finish off that retreating destroyer or cruiser.

 The Excelsior and other slow vessels just don't work the same way as they used to but they are far from useless.  The Excel is still 18/23 and well armed for a very early vessel.  It's power comes almost entirely from it's torpedoes and the fact that it can fire several extras with their special energy reserves gives it that much more of a boost.  

Akiras are going to be your backbone for the most part.  The Warp-ins and the interceptors are your bread and butter though.  Combine them with a couple of Canaverals using sensor blackout and you've got a very well balanced and capable fleet!  :)  Use the long range vessels like the Excel's, the Canaverals, and any Sabers you might have to open a battle from outside your Opponent's Range.  Make them come out to you in order to stop you and then pounce on them with your short ranged interceptors!

 Playing the AI may not allow you the benefits of such tactics, so I'd recommend spamming Akiras with a few canaverals backing them up.

Ninja'ed by Zaxxon:  Does the Avalon REALLY not need the Chassis upgrade?  I played Risner just to test out the Avalons earlier but didn't actually look to see if I needed the upgrade.

posted on January 18th, 2010, 12:15 am

Yeah akiras are generally the back bone because of there damage tolerance, and then i use my warp ins for fillers and power, same with the excel mk2 when i get them, and then way canveral,

i think what we need is different fleet formations tho, maybe even be able to design our own pregame, so that it can be organize by stenrth or type or such, and we also need a button to make the whole fleet move the same speed