Federation VS Galactic Empire

Which race do you like most? What do you like - what you don't like? Discuss it here.
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posted on June 7th, 2014, 3:06 am
I like that thought bomb idea. Apparently, that impossible problem 'virus' was reused to beat Borg somewhere. Been a while since I've seen SW:PM, but I remember the symbiotic bug now that you mention it. That's why I thought it was Mitochondria. While I'm rehashing that, I think I'll brush up on Star Destroyer tech. I saw some pretty neat designs once and the equipment was a lot more advanced than the movies let on.

The only biological life that Borg were never able to assimilate was some race that was responsible for creating them in the first place. The Undine sadly are not in that category. They were at first, but with a little help with KY-- I mean Voyager, that pretty much became the case.

Midichlorians are supposed to inhabit all lifeforms in the SW universe. This means all the Borg has to do is assimilate a random space newt, and they have an idea of how to assimilate a Jedi. There's no telling if they'd still be too complicated for the Borg to understand, but it seems possible.

And trying to stay somewhere on the tracks of the original post, Starfleet might have some defs against force wielders. I could see Section 31 whipping up some nasty little weapon that jams their abilities or something. Raspberry anyone?

Also, Section 31 would make an awesome Avatar in case certain persons are watching... :cloak:
posted on June 7th, 2014, 3:31 am
I never said they couldn't be assimilated I said they could just suicide b4 they were assimilated. Thus keeping the information of how to use the midiclorians from the borg.
posted on June 7th, 2014, 11:22 am
I wonder whether the psionic powers of the Undine, Betazoids, Vulcans, Remans etc are "detectable" or "defeatable" by Force Sensitives, and whether the reverse is true. In which case Starfleet and the Romulan Star Empire would have some rudimentary defense against Force attacks. Not sure what the Klingon Empire would do. Pray that lightsabres can't cut through Bat'LetHs?

Given the rather low number of Force Sensitives compared to races like the Vulcans however, and the massive firepower of most Star Wars vessels, I think a simple brute force slugging match is more concern to Starfleet and other Star Trek powers than Force Sensitives. As mentioned, only the Undine, the Borg and possibly the Romulan Star Empire (or the Voth) have the ships capable of standing up to Star Destroyers and the like.

Ground combat, when it came to it, would be ridiculously one sided in favour of the Empire also. Even if we take the vehicles seen in New Worlds as "canon", Star Trek races would still struggle to stop the Imperial Army.
posted on June 7th, 2014, 12:39 pm
In terms of raw power he listed the romulan miner ship from the future I believe so if they did it right they could simply create a singularity on or in the death-star. Food-for-thought.
posted on June 7th, 2014, 3:56 pm
Meh, that black hole of doom originally belonged to an itty bitty Vulcan ship. I'd rather sneak it in and drop the payload. No trench skimming required. I suppose it's as broad as it is long in the end. In fact, this thing was supposed to swallow a supernova that threatened the galaxy. As ridiculous as that is, we'd only need one or two of those Hovers and the Galactic fleet would be done.

Cardassian dreadnoughts come to mind for balance.

If it came to ground battles, I would have to agree the Empire would win every time. However, without interstellar support, ground battles mean next to nothing, so I would fear the Sith's infiltration ability first before worrying about an army that can be destroyed from orbit. I do think the Star Trek universe has the advantage in space all simply on account of having more sophisticated weapons. Being a war-specialized fleet, the Empire is doomed to fall to its Achilles heel being science.

Concerning force-based suicide or memory wipe to escape assimilation... Death is irrelevant. Resistance is futile. You must comply.

I'll drop the mic before anything gets serious, but I do think there's a good point for some homework here. When moding these fleets together in the same game, what is a realistic balance? If you have the chance to add the Death Star, would each armada have a counter to balance? I don't know if an answer can be found. The devs find it a challenge to get realistic balances within the Star Trek universe alone let alone a whole other universe. That's my food for thought.
posted on June 7th, 2014, 4:32 pm
The only thing that really compares to a Death Star in terms of destructive potential is either the Genesis Device or those Trilithium Torpedoes that Soran wanted to blast at that star to make it go Nova (which going off on a tangent, X-Com copied in the very lovely Nova Bomb :) )
posted on June 7th, 2014, 6:24 pm
Squire James wrote:I wonder whether the psionic powers of the Undine, Betazoids, Vulcans, Remans etc are "detectable" or "defeatable" by Force Sensitives, and whether the reverse is true. In which case Starfleet and the Romulan Star Empire would have some rudimentary defense against Force attacks. Not sure what the Klingon Empire would do. Pray that lightsabres can't cut through Bat'LetHs?

Given the rather low number of Force Sensitives compared to races like the Vulcans however, and the massive firepower of most Star Wars vessels, I think a simple brute force slugging match is more concern to Starfleet and other Star Trek powers than Force Sensitives. As mentioned, only the Undine, the Borg and possibly the Romulan Star Empire (or the Voth) have the ships capable of standing up to Star Destroyers and the like.

Ground combat, when it came to it, would be ridiculously one sided in favour of the Empire also. Even if we take the vehicles seen in New Worlds as "canon", Star Trek races would still struggle to stop the Imperial Army.

I said Marines and Stormtroopers. Nothing about vehicles, since they would have to be airdropped and that would imply Air/Space support being a huge factor. also, ground battles would only take place after the Death Star/Romulan Black Hole ship are down, as they would destroy the planets easily...
posted on June 7th, 2014, 6:30 pm
Only thing is the death star would likely take that Rom future ship out since it can also target ships. If the Star Trek universe wants a chance at it then they would have to take it on as though it was a cube and use manueverablity to escape the beam. Better hope they can destroy its weapon b4 it reaches Earth or another of the main races HWs
posted on June 8th, 2014, 12:33 am
the 2 universes are too different to be compatible really. and to take a random number of only a few types of ships isnt a fair fight either.

you could either try hazzard a guess of all the ships in each universe which is really out of the question.
or the best way i think would be to say,
1 of each ship ever to be in the shows and films and have at it.
1 death star, 1 star destroyer, (if there are varients of a ship type then 1 of each of those is fine) 1 melenium falcon etc etc

vs

1 enterprise, 1 enterprise A, b,c,d,e and j (but not the numbers that didnt show) 1 defiant, 1 borg cube etc etc

if its in canon and been shown its in.

tho star wars has
the force
death star

for this super weapons arms race people seem to forget that star trek has the
transporters
assimilation
species 8472 ship (would open the death star right up)
borg weapon adaption
dooms day machine,
the krinim time ship,
Crystalline Entity, (consumes life)
vger (consumes things in its cloud)
the whale prob (disables power in large radius)
as already mentioned cardassian dreadnought
time traveling ships of various sorts
all sorts of venting plasma from the core trick type doo hickeys and so forth
jem hadar stealth troops
and if star wars get darth vader, yoda etc then star trek gets changelings and Q

contested issues of star trek say lasers are ineffective at damaging their hulls so that would have to be tweaked

so perhaps energy weapons and torpedoes missiles etc with ship battles only and no main characters just average jo's on both sides.
posted on June 8th, 2014, 12:47 am
I don't mind the changlelings being brought in but the Q on the other hand is too OP. Only way the Q could be brought in is if some1 who was literally made-up of force or was a all-powerful being of the force was entered. This is simply because the Q are basically gods.
posted on June 8th, 2014, 4:31 am
StarWars vs StarTrek vessels is like sending the whole british colonial armada against a modern aircraft carrier group - that's target practice, not a threat.
The deathstar itself is also a joke. You need a moon sized vessel to blow up a planet. In the ST universe most larger Federation vessels could already do the same. And let's not start about torpedeo / shuttle sized weaponary that can blow up a whole solar system, which is "slightly" more destruction, not?

I'm also not sure why the force is always mentioned. It had pretty much no impact on creating the empire, nor on it's defeat.

I'd say that's a rather decisive victory for the ST universe, which is too advanced and technology driven, maybe except the armada of the empire is really large enough, so the ST fleet would run out of energy / ammo - damn Spammers! :lol:
posted on June 8th, 2014, 11:46 am
Is it just me who wants to see Worf or Martok face off against Darth Vader? Imagine the taunts...
Darthie: "You are beaten. It is useless to resist!"
Worf: "Something-something honour something-something glory something-something warrior something die"
or
Martok: [random Klingon swearing followed by a belly laugh]

Or Gowron in a staring contest with the Emperor?

In all seriousness though, Starfleet would totally trounce the Empire. To cut a post short (my internet ruined a rather long and in-depth post I put on here not two min before), Starfleet has an advantage in maneuverability compared to the Empire, coupled with SHIELDED fighters (take that TIEs!), decent-enough weapons, shielding and armour plating and a good track record at taking out enemy fleets despite vastly superior numbers and/or technology (see: Dominion, Borg, Romulans, Klingons, Species 8472 etc). Plus, a Death Star is nothing if you can transport a quantum torpedo into its reactor core.
On the ground, even assuming neither army was allowed to use vehicles (incl. shuttles and fighters), Starfleet would still win. They wouldn't have any qualms against using personal cloaking technology for infiltration á la Star Trek Insurrection (which Stormtrooper helmets can't detect, as in SW universe it's nigh impossible to get cloaks small enough for a freighter, never mind people), their Marines would likely wear armour or personal shielding capable of standing up to atleast one blaster bolt (unlike Stormies, who wear armour capable of being penetrated by pointed sticks and rocks in addition to a single blaster bolt) and its very likely Starfleet would use the modified TR-116 rifle if the worst came to the worst.
Only advantages Imperials would likely have is their willingness to shoot-to-kill, their willingness to shoot on sight and their probable advanced use of ground tactics (as ground combat seems uncommon in ST universe, whereas it happens every two days in SW).
posted on June 8th, 2014, 12:30 pm
True sorry im just injecting SW stuff from all over the timeline :P guess we are just talking about Empire in which case the only force users would be Vader and Darth Sideas
posted on June 8th, 2014, 1:21 pm
It had pretty much no impact on creating the empire, nor on it's defeat.


Ummmm, you have seen the films right?

The betrayal of the Jedi (Force users) by Palpatine (a Force user) and Skywalker/Vader (a Force user), followed by a purge of the remaining Jedi (Force users) , then Kenobi (a Force user) getting the Death Star plans onboard R2D2 past various Imperial checkpoints (using the Force), and being crucial in the Millennium Falcon escaping the Death Star, then Luke Skywalker (also a Force user) turning off his targeting computer when attacking the Death Star (ergo using The Force to ensure a hit) , followed by an enormous Imperial campaign to find Skywalker...

You get the idea. The entire rise and fall of the Empire was "caused" by The Force.
posted on June 8th, 2014, 5:00 pm
Squire James wrote:Ummmm, you have seen the films right? ...

Yup, and i even like them.

But look at the bigger picture. It's some dictator overthrowing the republic with a military coup.
The Jedi were just some annoying remaining power he had to deal with. They could have not have the force - no difference. The Jedi killing was also done by Stormtroopers.
And how did Palpatine start the empire? With a vote. How did he control the empire? Not with the force, just with his vast military.

Another example: "of course" Luke hits the little hole with the force - but just replace the "use the force" line with something from pretty much any Hero movie ever made.

One could blame the Jedi for the rise of the empire though. They were way too focused on their fancy force, instead of actually doing their job.

Hope you get my point.
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