Excelsior I

posted on September 12th, 2010, 12:04 pm

well if the Veteran Excel 1's get the Lakota refit with a weapon boost for that rank they would be worth having around a spot more.  personally id give the 2 gold bar rank the refit and weapon boost and find some other boost for veteran.

we remember the lakota giving the defiant a good beating, because it refit well. i have no issue with the excel being around still.

I definitely agree that the Excelsior I should get the Lakota refit with veterency and also think that it should get substantially stronger when it does so, effectively making the Excelsior Fleet Ops' Magikarp...

Magikarp Power - Television Tropes & Idioms

...in this way, there would be a lot less scope for people to curse their bad luck with they get multiple Excelsior Is with their call-in and it would also help to reduce any, "They balanced the SFC by giving you a random chance to get complete crap" effect the Excelsior I might be causing... I for one am totally against the player having a random chance of getting screwed over in lieu of balancing...

posted on September 12th, 2010, 12:11 pm

the excel isnt bad when it comes in normally. its just weaker than the other warpins.

against borg it is actually quite handy.

posted on September 12th, 2010, 12:15 pm

Durability is probably where most of the complaints come from; it's the second most fragile Warp-In currently available.

posted on September 12th, 2010, 12:19 pm

Durability is probably where most of the complaints come from; it's the second most fragile Warp-In currently available.

the steamy is even less durable, but its awesome offence usually makes people happy.

the excel should do too. its free, and does nice damage with its special. its very good.

[Tyler]

posted on September 12th, 2010, 12:27 pm

Last edited by Tyler on September 12th, 2010, 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Steamrunner does large damage in few shots, but the Excelsior does smaller damage over more shots. It's harder to notice unless the enemy holds off on attacking it.

Range likely doesn't get considered, since the Excelsior is only one level below the Steamrunner.

posted on September 12th, 2010, 12:33 pm

i usually purposefully leave the excel alone until last. because it's so slow. if they retreat, i almost always can kill the excel.

[Tyler]

posted on September 12th, 2010, 12:37 pm

Last edited by Tyler on September 12th, 2010, 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That doesn't always happen though, especially if there's an AI involved. A good number of player would only have seen the poor defence that prevents it from doing its best.

Rare that canon and gameplay are actually in agreement about how something should be done...

posted on September 12th, 2010, 3:27 pm

Lol an Excelsior refit was quite a match for the Defiant in an episode of DS9

posted on September 12th, 2010, 3:34 pm

Lol an Excelsior refit was quite a match for the Defiant in an episode of DS9

that was the lakota. and i mentioned it earlier.

posted on September 12th, 2010, 4:45 pm

I love how Optec explains an answer to the Original Poster and everyone ignores him .


  The Lakota was a "refit", yes, but it was "refit" with technology that was directly coming from a shady bureaucrat.  The "Lakota" / "Enterprise B" ship model is NOT a refit of the Excelsior itself.  It's a whole new ship that was built.

    This has come up before.  The Lakota is another form of the Excelsior class, but it's not a "refit" of an older Excelsior chassis.  It's only a "refit" in that it's weapons were upgraded.

posted on September 12th, 2010, 5:30 pm

if the lakota/excel b excels are different ships from the normal excels then having the vet excel "become" a lakota/excel would be problematic.

i think that the lakota refit was a refit of a normal excel. but then the ent B would have been a refit too, built all at once refit.

[Boggz]

posted on September 12th, 2010, 5:46 pm

Last edited by Boggz on September 12th, 2010, 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

if the lakota/excel b excels are different ships from the normal excels then having the vet excel "become" a lakota/excel would be problematic.

   It's only a problem if you let it be a problem .

i think that the lakota refit was a refit of a normal excel. but then the ent B would have been a refit too, built all at once refit.

   It's not a refit.  It's just another ship built on the Excelsior Chassis.  It was a newer version updated because in Generations they had a budget and wanted to make a new Enterprise.  The ship itself is an entirely different vessel based on the same design.  In DS9 they used the old Excelsior models maybe because they were easier to animate ... who knows.

   Tank Chassis' were utilized in this way frequently in WW2, car chassis are manufactured this way by a number of car companies, and a "refit" is an entirely different thing.

   Would you call a 2010 GT 500 Mustang a "refit" of a stock 2010 Mustang?


Here:  this is straight from the Ent.B page on Memory Alpha--

The Enterprise-B was a reuse of the USS Excelsior model designed by Bill George for Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. The miniature was given several modifications designed by John Eaves and Herman Zimmerman, including an extra set of impulse engines on the saucer section, flares on the side of the engineering hull, new caps on the front of the warp nacelles, and fins on the back of the nacelles. The blue accents on the ship were repainted to a teal color. The flares were added for the specific purpose of damaging them during the Nexus escape sequence and as a way to keep the Excelsior model beneath undamaged. The modifications were also by request of producer Rick Berman, who felt the Excelsior design had been overused in the previous motion pictures and in the television series. The NCC-1701-B was also rendered as a CGI model for certain sequences within the Nexus. As it turned out, the glue used to attach the additional parts did in fact damage the original model, so the modifications were never removed. The physical model was later relabeled to become the USS Lakota in the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode "Paradise Lost".

  They "updated" the Excelsior physical model to serve the dual purpose of plot and making smoething unique for the new Enterprise.  Then they couldn't remove the new additions they had glued on, so the next time they needed to use a physical model of an Excel they had to use it as it was.  Sometimes movie magic ain't so magic .

  The reason we saw so many non-Lakota-esque Excel's in DS9 was because they switched to CGI at some point before many Excels were featured.  Thus, when they needed a physical model to make the cool battle sequence in Paradise Lost they had to return to the only Excel model they physically had. 

  Heh.... real life reasoning .... MY EYES ARE BURNING!!!

[RedEyedRaven]

posted on September 12th, 2010, 5:50 pm

Last edited by RedEyedRaven on September 12th, 2010, 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i think that the lakota refit was a refit of a normal excel. but then the ent B would have been a refit too, built all at once refit.

Refit of a normal Excelsior? Where do the differencies in design come from that suddenly? And we have seen the Enterprise B being on her maiden voyage already looking like she did, so it was definately built as it was seen right from the start (noone refits a ship before it left the yard at least once)... also the Negh'Var is getting a "refit" as well if getting to veteran, so it's also a little uncanon (because it looks like the so-called Voo'Dieh before rank 6 due to the missing heavy guns bottomside). In the same manner the rank 5 Excelsior could ingame go to rank 6 and get the extended engineering section and the additional saucer-impulse-engines alongside the bigger nacelles.

But don't forget. It's the worst warpin ever!  :borg:

Edit:

  The reason we saw so many non-Lakota-esque Excel's in DS9 was because they switched to CGI at some point before many Excels were featured.  Thus, when they needed a physical model to make the cool battle sequence in Paradise Lost they had to return to the only Excel model they physically had.

That explains a lot. So they wanted the Lakota to be the normal Excelsior but the model didn't match equally. They just painted it "new" again x)

posted on September 12th, 2010, 6:01 pm

I love how Optec explains an answer to the Original Poster and everyone ignores him .

We didn't, we just exercised our right to talk crap for another dozen posts. 

posted on September 12th, 2010, 6:10 pm

It's only a problem if you let it be a problem .

ahem, so you are saying that if your logic causes issues you should just ignore the problem?

no, just no.

i disagree with both of your posts (the 2 before me)

i believe that the excel B and lakota are both excel classes that are refits of normal excel classes.

if we follow your logic that they are different designs, then what class do we call them?

we saw that the TOS constitution was quite easily refitted to the TMP constitution, the changes were quite substantial, but it was still a refit. just like the excel B and lakota are excel refits.

the refit of adding the new engines and the flares may be an expensive refit, so only important excels get it (ie veterans) like the ent B and the lakota (which got special love from an admiral).

while other less important excels just got simpler refits, like new phasers and stuff.