A Query About Intellectual Copyrights.....

posted on May 13th, 2005, 5:48 am

Hmmmmm, Fellas. Now we all know how protective you are of your own created material but I must admit. You really need to check things more thoroughly. Let me see. Where to start:

1) The texture file for the Mediterrenean Class construction vessel. Not to bad a model mind you. Shame that the original texture was created using a model done by Rick Snider. Wheres the credit for it??
2) Seems that Rick Knox isn't to fond of having his models edited (and that goes for the textures as well) without his permission. Oh he may allow their direct usage but I mean guys. If your going to credit something DO IT PROPERLY, or not at all.
3) 9ofNines Steamrunner. Okay so the same seems to apply here.

I begin to wonder if your not trying to remove the competition just so you can sell yourselves. Well sorry to tell you guys but BUSTED!! (and I won't go into the similarities between Dawns and your own Excelsior II). Seems the Flops project isn't quite so unique as was first lead to believe.

Now some might think, that I'm doing this as a means of revenge towards the Flops team because I've had to remove the romulan stations, but lets get real here. Would I have used them if I had known where they original came from?? Not in the slightest, as considering my own project won't be finished until the new year theres still plenty of time for suitable, and might I add far better, replacements to be found and added.

Oh and just for other peoples information. Lag is caused through heavy use of high poly models. Come on now Optec. Even you should be aware of the effect a 3000 poly sovereign can have when it takes 70 seconds to build (quicker if the game options are set).

Anyway, just thought I would throw some light on this. Hope you don't mind.

posted on May 13th, 2005, 6:25 am

....and more becomes apparent.

4) An interesting one this. Though I would make it an attachement this time, just for an added bit of proof. Seems that a certain Borg texture wasn't credited at all (luckily I had seen it somewhere before). Tell me guys. does THIS site ring any bells, and a certain Tactical Cube that is there.
5) Another borg texture. Again an interesting on. Seems you've been "overlaying" one texture onto another. The borg_heavy texture seems to have a familiar background to it now doesn't it. I thought this time I would let you see if you come clean about this one.

Now due to these seemingly apparent things which have come to my attention you can consider you mod disabled from AFC until you sort a few things out.

Have a nice day.

Attachments

[Optec]

posted on May 13th, 2005, 11:03 am

Last edited by Optec on May 13th, 2005, 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Major A Payne

We have always cared for our permissions when using stuff we did not create ourselves. Its nice that you now start to care for our permissions, too, but leave that to us, pls.

I nearly fall of my chair while reading your post. I would never ever have expected something like that from a modder i valued so high like you. :cry:

My main question is why do you do this? Is it because you did not care about your permissions, not even about reading a readme file before implementing stuff?

I noticed you really removed Fleet Operations Beta 2 from AFC. Why? Because you are now angry that i did not allow you to use my models?

I always though of you as respective modder and i always tried to get on a friendly level with you. Your mods are one of the best out there and from time to time I play Borg Incrusion with my friends. As I found out that you used Fleet Operations material I was neither angry nor happy to "crush the enemy" cause there is no enemy.
We already allowed many people out there to use our material, there even were several projects for "mods for Fleet Operations" that were allowed. You just have to ask friendly.
I waited for a mail of you, but there was nothing, you never asked "May I use your material, please?", always in a very agressive way (like on the deleted AFC forum "You want me to remove this, yes???")
I never wanted to ruin Borg Incursion VR and I'm really sorry that you gave it up. I and many other were looking forward to this.

MaP, we are not your enemy. We don't want to make "the best mod", we just wanted to make another style of mod for another style of people and support the community with it by bringing new and fresh ideas to the table.

We are not your enemies, we are your friends.

Greetings,
Optec

posted on May 13th, 2005, 12:08 pm

KHmmm, seems like your only doing this out of revange MaP because you are angry you cannot use their models. For me it looks like your behaving very childlish, I also dont see why dont u understand they dont want to give their models to everyone. They made them themselves and it is their right to do with them what they please.


But anyway really childlish

posted on May 13th, 2005, 12:59 pm

All the recent incidents aside I'd still like to know if you have used other peoples files without asking them. Seeing as the Fleet Ops team is so strict with usage of it's materials I assume you would extent the same regard to other people's work.

I'm not after ruffling anyones feather's, I dont actually play Fleet Ops but I do like the community we normally have. I watched this post closely and you never actually answered the accusation Optec.

posted on May 13th, 2005, 1:19 pm

As said before we always cared for permissions of stuff we did not develop our selfes (including MD Software before you start with the "illegal" launcher).

I really start feeling bad with all off this. Seems like we become the second worst "company" in the world, right after Microsoft (no offence to any Microsoft fans was just a joke).
Come one, I never insulted MaP. I never was angry with him. I would even have aided him on a project if he asked. That the goal of our mod - to create a "commercial like product" - makes it very hard for us to exchange our models without killing this goal seems to be the only "insult" i'm aware of.
The next day the only thing i could read on the forums was people flaming me, up to people wanting to kill me and a really bad crusade against FO.
If the FO project was that destructive to the community then i'm really sorry. I always counted myself as part of the community.

Perhaps we all should cool down now, trink a cool coke (I just put one in the fridge) and think about how we could safe Borg Incursion. That would at least be my goal but that's up to you after all. My relation to several A2 sites and some people got a serious crack. I would never have thought something like that would be possible in this great community. :cry:

Optec

[Anonymous]

posted on May 13th, 2005, 1:30 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on May 13th, 2005, 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yes the guy wanting to kill you was a little bit exiteable I thought

I think the comunity problem is just the sharing thing, that's pretty much the point of the community as I see it, I myself have asked you for permission for things ( a design I think ) and got turned down, was not an issue though.

I think the biggest problem I saw is it boils down to this.

A lot of hard work went into to making the BI rom side as you know with any project and he got the stuff through another file other than FleetOps ( I wouldn't check if it was fleet ops even if it looked it cause you guys say you don't allow file use like this. ) Now I'm hearing you wont let him use this simply because of the way the question was phrased, doesn't sound too good I think.

Anyway, MaP will have far more support than he ever needs to carry on with the mod if he chooses to do so, no need to worry about that.

Enjoy the cold drink, could do with that as I'm stuck in an office for 3 more hours

[Optec]

posted on May 13th, 2005, 1:42 pm

Last edited by Optec on May 13th, 2005, 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oh. You should try a coffee then ^_^ works for my while on the university. Also the weather is to hot here in Germany for a coffee.

Yep i think the whole fire can be centered on the sharing thing. Whilte we decided once to handle it like we do it now that was the main point for discussions within the team. Share it or don't share it. We decided to keep FO as unique as possible. You see we have plans for our future. Maybe we want to make a dream come true and once start in the gaming industry. Fleet Operations is - in some kind - a training for it which should be easily identified.

Also in the past 2 years we often ignored that self established rule and allowed other people to use our stuff or make mods based on our mod. That we did not allow MaP to use the stuff has several other reasons, too. Maybe you can figure it out yourself while reading through old posts about Fleet Operations or about Borg Incursion. I really don't want to explain that in public.

Yep i know it is hard if you realise several month of work were completely useless. happened to me a few times now too (not with FO but other reallife stuff) and thats really frustrating. Of course it's a humans first thought to blame somebody for it. That's natural and I'm not angry about that with anybody.

Many illusions about this community faded away for me in the past days :cry: i will take a small break now (the coke was not enough ) and play a bit World of Warcraft. I hope i could explain my view of the matter to everybody. I'm not the imperator-devil

PS:
Oh and thanks Achilles for raising the topic back to a friendly level. I'm really thankful for this! I hate such hostile discussions after all. You get them in your reallife far to often to continue them in your modding community ^_^

Optec

posted on May 13th, 2005, 1:53 pm

Map take a chill pill dude. or maybe optec has a spare coke in the fridge for ya.. agree with optec that you come across very agressive ... deep breaths man.

as for not being as unique as was lead to believe... well this is definatly the most unique mod i've ever played

posted on May 13th, 2005, 1:54 pm

Yep i could offer at least a virtual coke for you MaP. Or a real one if you would ever made a trip to south germany

posted on May 13th, 2005, 3:28 pm

been to South Germany all too often, My family originates from a town called Worms (with a Vee sound ) near Frankfurt barely a generation ago. Had coke there, also this cool fanta flavour we dont get in the bloody boring UK.

posted on May 13th, 2005, 3:37 pm

Optec. Firstly, bare this in mind BEFORE you or anyone else responds. I have never, and shall never hold malice towards you or any other member of the Flops team. If I did, why would I post the previous message I did concerning removal of your models from my project after your confirmation and my subsequent confirmation?? They have been removed and suitable replacements will be found.

Secondly, Flops project hasn't been removed from AFC. As with ANY mod/mods or projects, AFC policy is that the rights of the individual are upheld when it comes to permission seeking. Indeed I've had more than one mod thats had to be disabled due to lack of credits, or correct credits in the readme. Further to this, if you've read my thread on AFC General Modding forum concerning Permissions, then you will see that Flops team materials are not to be used under any circumstances, so you can't turn around and say I did this deliberately.

Thirdly, the comment from The Black Baron. So you believe I did this as a matter of revenge due to non allowance to use Flops models?? If that was the case then why would I have posted a thread which gives other modders/modellers an idea of whos materials we are and aren't allowed to use BEFORE I used the models in question. Also why would I agree to remove, and have removed these models if I didn't agree to it. If this was done as a matter of revenge I wouldnt' even bother posting my previous message/thread asking whether Flops team want the models removed, now would I. I also, contrary to what you post, do understand fully why they would wish to keep their models intact for their project, but if that was the case, and this is common knowledge, why would they make their way into the SFC based "Project Armada 2" mod.

To continue. Optec. As I've mentioned earlier in this reply, you need not concern yourself with BI:VR. Work will go on, but the set back will be minimal, I assure you. The romulan models have been removed and won't be released by me so you've no worry there.

Finally, you may be pleased to know that as I have good relations with several of the parties including Andrew Hodges (hobbes is unavailable, and has been for a while now, so contacting him will be more difficult), so I'm going to speak to Andrew directly, and explain the situation to him, you'll find he's more understanding than you might think although has been known to lean very heavily on those who don't take notice of his websites TOS. As much as my initial posting here may indicate and I'll repeat myself, I do not hold any malice towards the Flops team (contrary to what some people might otherwise believe).

Also to the matter of any insults or threats. If it happens to be posted on AFC or its found that a member of AFC is carrying this out then I'll personally see to it they suffer the consequences of their actions, which in the worst case scenario will result in temporary bans. I'll not have side taking going on as I can rally plenty of support to replace what I've removed from my precious project.

Anyway, the balls in your court, so to speak.

[Optec]

posted on May 13th, 2005, 3:41 pm

Last edited by Optec on May 13th, 2005, 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ah Yep i now Worms. Was there once with my latin class while I was at school. Something Roman is there.. but well i remember other things from Worms then Romans
Well the Fleet Ops team is settled near Stuttgart (reeaally south) Near Ulm where Albert Einstein is born, although these cities are not that well known outside of Germany. Not reeaally large.

I switched to Fanta just at the moment, the coke was stolen by a friend -.-


PS:
MaP
I don't know who announced you to the Armada2 Police. The Models and / or textures you claim we "illegaly" used in our mod were used with permission. Yep, there was some chaos before the Beta2 release therefore an older version of the readme file went into the package missing a few names (some people also noticed that some balancing changes were missing too)
These authors have already been informed and we got their OK. Of course they will be able to read their names together with a laaarge "SORRY" in the Version 3.0 readme.
The Borg texture you attached is from the BORG SPHERE [REFIT] by Andrew J. Hodges who give us his okay to his material. His Borg Sphere refit will be in Version 3.0 too, under the name "Prime Sphere". It will be an Avatar vessel. And of course he will be mentioned in the Readme.

Thanks to Andrew J. Hodges at this point! ^_^

We know that messing up our readme file is the worst thing that can happen and i will personally check the readme file of Version 3.0 before the release.

Could we please end this stuff now. It's really killing booth the community and my nerves.

So long,
Optec

posted on May 13th, 2005, 3:50 pm

it's very true that AFC has enforced strict policies about crediting all authors of anything used, this goes for images, mods and pretty much anything. MaP keeps a close eye on this for us.

Also an offer to help get your crediting sorted, good luck with all that.

hmm, I dont remember Roman Ruins, just lots and lots of feilds, A wharehouse/shop, super clean roads, a violent grandmother, more fields and 2 very odd sisters......... possibly more fields.

posted on May 13th, 2005, 3:53 pm

I said u were doing it out of revange because u started this thread with accusations of what models FO team used without permition and with really no other purpuse. But as I understand u didnt know they did indeed have permition. Sorry but I havent seen that thread where it says whose models r u allowed to use and which u arent allowed. Anyway sorry IF I had offended u in any way, but I still think the initial post was little more than provocation