Training Crew Station for Rank Upgrade.

posted on October 6th, 2010, 8:46 pm

oh yeah, didnt notice that.

my cat decided to attack my toe a minute ago. for no reason.

he went missing for a couple days on the weekend, i wish he'd stayed away

oh my we have derailed this badly, lets stop being off topic for a while.

posted on October 6th, 2010, 8:56 pm

lol lol

ok ok

seems I'm outvoted.


but I WANT IT. lol

the game is already pretty sweet... so I don't mind either way.

I get the real training of combat... but one rank? I think that can be achieved. I don't want vet or anything like that for this. Thinking that this has absolutely no value after you rank up maybe twice or three times yourself. If every ship is ranked up... then there is no difference.

Especially for some reasons to have it - realistically, Federation training, or just Klingon society itself... come on. Just the upbringing would give you an advantage or tricks that could be molded for a higher rank. Wesley Crusher? Not my favourite character, but the series gave him an edge for thinking up good ideas. In the episode the 'game' or whatever it was. And the one with the mock fight between Picard and Riker, where he did that thing with the warp speed.

posted on October 6th, 2010, 8:58 pm

if one could sit in their base and rank every ship up by 1 rank, even just 1 rank, its still gonna be a large amount of extra dps for sitting in your base.

i dont want stuff in fleetops which encourages u to sit still and wait. especially for feds, as they can slow advances to a crawl with their turrets.

posted on October 7th, 2010, 12:50 am

I see, well I have a last suggestion for how this might be made to work, and if this doesn't catch on, and no one else has any ideas to offer or to adjust how this might work then fair enough. I have a bunch more ideas for how this could be done... but no point in dragging on.

- - I will state the problem in advance, for the borg, I don't know what would be done. - - ideas?

So, back to the building of a station. The station is comparable to a mix-tech yard. These ships are the 'mix'  of the race within itself, a special elite class shipyard that you can only build one of, (like the tavara and descent, a shipyard that is 1/1), and gives it's own specials or not, but really just the rank up.

Each race can build three classes from the mix tech with limits. Say for Klingons, unlimited Brels, or say 20 if a cap is really wanted, 5 Vorcha, and 3 Neghvars. Federation maybe get a warpin from this, or if all three are warpin variants? Can build a select number of upgrades say 12 intrepids, 6 Akiras, and perhaps 2 Galaxy. Or whatever might work.  The limit and costs can be adjusted, for both the shipyard and ships, so that this isn't something that can be done right away, or is worth sitting around for. But at the appropriate time, can be utilized if desired. It also needs a place in the techtree... maybe the federation get it last. Whereas Klingons and Romulans which are more station heavy can get it earlier.

For Borg, maybe something can be thought up. I have thought of one idea, but don't know for sure. The particular yard depends on the opponent the Borg player is facing. So, let's say it is against the Federation. Some how make it that the borg can assimilate a ship, and any ship that is brought to this yard becomes buildable (to a limit) with it's own set of unique characteristics that it has received from borg upgrades.

Or, the borg have been in the Alpha quadrant for such a such a time, and have become favourable towards three particular classes from each race and their specials. Therefore, they have a standard mix-tech yard for each race that produces whatever ship. But nothing with specials that are too powerful. - or similar, but instead of building the actual class from the federation, only the special is assimilated, and given to a certain ship. So assimilators or spheres upgraded with another races special *nothing to powerful.

Again, not sure about the borg... as they don't fit it with the rank up of the other races... but in the interest of not giving something to the other races that gives them a bonus against the borg. 

posted on October 7th, 2010, 1:42 am

I do actually like the idea.  Largely because I hate trying to get that first gold bar on a fragile ship that turns it into a ship that doesn't fold in the face of a bugship.  Yes, I'm looking at you, c-11.  Nothing worse than somehow getting that thing to rank twice, looking forward to it getting it's 1-gold upgrade, and it getting snuffed offhandedly.

That's right, I only want it able to assign line officers to a ship that's prestigious enough already.

posted on October 7th, 2010, 2:01 am

Which idea were you in favour of? Just an alternate way to rank up, or something specific?

Now I'm split between having a station and a repair/train button. As stated, the repair/train button might be abused. Perhaps something along the lines of a station. It could make sense. Perhaps only certain ships are worth placing promising officers aboard. Who wants to use a top of the line officer on board something fragile, or lower grade. But we select the ships that could benefit from an initial rank up. It doesn't have to be three ship classes per yard, any selection could be given. Think BIG! But the limit per ship class might be advisable so that it can't be mistreated. Perhaps the station would be best.

*Should have thought of something else to call it besides a mix tech yard.. cause it isn't at all (except for what might be given to the borg).

ha I don't want to think up the name though.

I dunno, - something - shipyard. Elite Officer Shipyard? lol I dunno. Advanced Crew Yard? haha - help

posted on October 7th, 2010, 5:28 am

Due to the nature of Fleet Ops rank-ups, any ability that allows ships to rank up without combat is BAD.  For example the Klingon supply system DEPENDS on rank-ups, and not all rank ups are created equal.

If there was a specific ship that had a rank-up ability (like the B'rel's weapon fatigue) that would be fine.  The only other mechanic I wouldn't mind seeing is from Warzone 2100.  In that game, if you decommission a ship with ranks, it "stores" the crew and the next unit built will start out with the same rank.  This way if you want to change the way your veteran slots are taken, you could decom a vet (the next ship would only be built with 2 gold bars) instead of sending it to die.

Of course, to balance it you'd want to limit it to ships from the same factory, for example a veteran bug can only transfer to a small yard ship.  A lot of work to code, but it could add a new level of fun to veteran ships.

posted on October 7th, 2010, 6:19 am

If the avatars had been setup differently originally then it could have worked like C&C Generals where you different avatars can build say first/second rank ships immediately of certain type, eg:

Mayson: Monsoons are built at first rank up.
Risner: Avalons are built at first rank up.

Still, in the distant future it could be a nice option to include something like this as an additional way of customizing your avatars, enable some sort of Generals like abilities so the more combat your race has (rather than individual ships) you can select additional abilities.

Of course, this then would multiply the required ODFs by a factor of 10..... probably not so good.

posted on October 7th, 2010, 9:30 am

I dont like build up ranked up ships. You may train your crew in order to run a ship, but both - balance issues AND situative reflection stay against it.

BUT I like the idea of stations level-up. For example the dominion perimeter might be able to do that, then we have the rommie-spy-center, maybe the klingon special station, that is able to increase the time of its special (or gives ships that fly together a mass-bonus), and so on.

Klingon:
- Give its special station a rankup-ability, that will increase the time period (lower energy-costs) for the special (more firepower... you know)
- The rommies already got it
- The dominion might do this with perimeters, that may get an extra passive while leveling up
- the federation... erm... dont know
- The borg... well, maybe a central station (like a deep space station but only a central complex) that will give the borg certain abilities, like rank-up, transfering the queen to a certain ship (we had the 'hero' topic around here somewhere)

Lets brainstorm.

posted on October 7th, 2010, 1:54 pm

I personally think that it should be an additional feature of a high-end building.  The ability rank a ship (which must dock with it for...oh...random guesstimate...30 seconds) from 2 silver to 1 gold.

That's it.  All it gets to do for ranking them.  Take them over that pain-in-the-ass hump in lategame.

I think that the ability should be on the Ketracel White Facility (the one where you research weapon upgrades), Starfleet Command, Moq'bara Station, Cloaking Facility and Intelligence Center.

Only a sufficiently important building is capable of it, it takes too long to be a sudden battleshifter, and it only works on a narrow range of experience.  Won't ever prep a ship to vet by making it double gold, and you still have to get the ship to level twice the hard way.

posted on October 7th, 2010, 9:16 pm

I like the idea of it being something that requires a ship to already be at 2 silver... then something like a special that takes time to rank it up to 1 gold.

There seems to be talk of rank up for specific ships which I'm also fine with. Monsoons for Mayson, or Brels for Martok. (Include my Vorchas!, also, I'm fond of getting perhaps the Amabassador or Galaxy warpin as being build types for this, but nothing was expressed to support the ship build limit for this option... it seems to be more something of a special or researched ability) Perhaps give one weak ship a boost with this, and one strong ship (Brel / Vorcha, Monsoon / Galaxy).

How this is implemented seems to be uncertain... as their seems to be hesitation to allow rank ups that A: do not require combat, B: can encourage sitting at home and ranking up and C: allow rank ups straight out of the build queue.

So, I have a question for those who have expressed opposition, are we against finding ways to get alternative ways for ships to rank up, or just want it regulated so that the manner in which the rank up occurs is very specific, and takes into account the combat obviously required for experience, and to ensure that base sitting is not made an option? I think there are ways of doing this.

There was the idea of having a decommissioned ship allow the next ship built to be at the same rank. What about something where a ship returns to a shipyard, and activates a special that allows it to train the ships crew in the build queue. And it is required that the ship training be a certain rank.

A bit more specific, let's say you are required to get a ship to say 1/2 gold bar, or Vet. That ship then goes back to a shipyard, and does a sort of crew briefing for the crew of another ship that is being built. This... to me... seems reasonable. The crew gets advice about what to expect from the frontline from the tricks used by a Jem'hadar attack ships, or Breen Cruisers. Or receives the Captains logs *and personal advice* for dealing with Borg tactics. Think of Janeway on Voyager who encounters the Borg, and reads up on Picards entries, and quickly becomes an expert, along with her own added experience.

Along the same line of thought.. because we don't want ships to be given this option from the build queue I suggest something like the following:

A special that allows a Gold Bar ship to return to a shipyard, and select any ship of the same class that gives the ships command officers personal insight into the enemies strategies. Perhaps a 'Captain to Captain' special or some appropriate title, I don't know. Once the special is activated, the ship does not immediately receive a rank up, but it quickly gains two rank ups during combat - I need to do more reading into the specifics for rank up... as I am not aware of the variations or requirements or the balance for each race - but I assume many of you are more aware than I, so it gains the rank ups at a faster rate than what it currently is. I assume that a ship gets a rank up immediately after a kill, or number of kills? So let's say this trained ship, or perhaps this can be done for a few ships at a time... not sure, but once going into battle, and encountering a certain fleet, it ranks up faster, or if it is part of a fleet of a certain size. Again, I don't think anyone wants this to speed up to Vet, just something to get things started. (Would this help in the Klingon Supply demands for rank ups, or not?) Or be something for a Vet ship to train an already built 2 silver to reach 1 gold immediately.

I also think giving stations rank up abilities is an interesting idea. Well, select stations perhaps. Research stations don't need a rank up from what I see, neither do turrets. But starbases or special stations, or ... maybe ... a shipyard rank up of some kind *fingers crossed*. Haha, maybe once you've built 30 ships of the same design, the ship build time can be decreased. But this might not be a good idea. I just want a special shipyard of some kind. But perhaps that is a separate matter altogether.

posted on October 8th, 2010, 8:52 pm

I thought up something for the Borg to possibly counter what the other races get in rank ups. Maybe just an idea in itself. It seems like there is a lot in FO for assimilation, what about some more stuff on adaptability?

In a game, perhaps the borg have a special which allows them to adapt after a certain number of enemy ships have been destroyed/assimilated etc... This could also be used after a certain number of the borg's own ships have been destroyed. They adapt after being attacked by enemy weaponry to reduce damage from certain class cruisers or something, while also, adapting after finding weak spots in enemy ships from previous encounters where borg vessels have destroyed enemy ships or assimilated them. The two allow for adaptation upgrades to the offensive and defensive values of borg ships.

I rarely play as borg, so not really sure about this idea. But perhaps if anything is altered in the future with rank ups for other races, this could help the borg in some manner. It seems like there are a lot of ideas that go around here and suggestions for ships and such. So I assume somehow, in some way, the rank ups will also eventually get attention of some kind.