Thoughts on Game Start
Post ideas and suggestions on new features or improvements here.
posted on April 24th, 2012, 9:17 pm
Last edited by godsvoice on April 24th, 2012, 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I have previously mentioned my favourite part of missions in A1 and A2 was the beginning, seeing what you got in terms of resources, fleet, stations, objectives, etc. One of the most exciting parts of all games really. And of course the figuring out the best execution, or most "fun" execution.
I am not a multiplayer, so of course this idea is curtailed in a certain direction, feel free to give suggestions.
In that light, ideas for AI start, and possible Player start Alternatives:
Double and Half:
Player starts at two starting locations, however his starting resources are halved (slightly more or less, than halved ... 1800 1200, 2100 900, exactly 2000 1000 etc).
With four construction ships, and two scouts with two starting locations, despite the early and extreme shortages, with two instant moon pairs at your disposable, with a very devoted economic start, you may quickly prosper and enjoy an ulterior game start.
Moon Starvation:
Given: 2 refineries, and six Miners (or equivalent).
You begin in a system that was initially intended to gain a particular resource for your faction, and you have already built two refineries and six miners and are heavily mining that one resource. You accrue in the region of 6000 di, or tri. and a have fairly marginal left over supply of the minor resource around 200-600 di or tri. You initially had 4000 2000, but your mission was to devote yourself to one of the two, and you did. However, new orders indicate a hostile threat in the system. New orders require you immediately begin establishing a military force in the area and investigate. Using your six miners provided, and 2 refineries, you must focus your efforts to quickly acquire your lacking resource, and begin station building for new fleets.
Fleet Start:
Given: Mixed fleet
You arrive at an AI control region of space with approximately 8-15 ships (cruiser being the strongest). There you find a small force of 6 ships of varied strength (at least 1 battleship), mining operations, and a weak turret defense and one yard.
You are invading the enemy system. Destroy all units in that region (like in the vicinity of one expansion, not the whole map). Once you do, two construction ships and 1 scout will appear. You will also be given a large sum of resources as reward for you military success.
First, build a star base. Then build the rest of your stations and units. Your enemy might attack, use whatever left over ships you have to defend until your star base is built, and other initial defences can be procured.
An Ai Alter Ego:
The Ai always has you outnumbered. In this scenario, it is no different. Except the AI is already at full force.
You are facing:
Three developed AI expansions (meaning a yard, at least one turret (probably more), full mining, and ships), however they are each of varying strength. The first is only small yard vessels. The second is Mostly small yard with introduction of larger. The final is all and a hefty size as well. The AI does not build anything until you attack the second expansion. It would be wise to completely demolish the first before moving onward. However, even when you do destroy the first expansion, while the Ai does build more vessels, it will not attack you full on. Featuring map layout:
Map Layout: You occupy a 'greenzone', once the first expansion is destroyed, it will turn to yellow. at yellow the Ai will start building ships and patrolling its borders, but will not attack you, but will send ships to defend its second expansion. Once you attack the second expansion, the yellow zone turns red, meaning the Ai will attack you directly. Make sure both initial assaults on the 1st and 2nd expansions leave the AI decimated. The colours green, yellow, and red, will just be markered somewhere on the screen. The first two expansions are without a SB.
Oh, and don't waste your time, did I not mention there are timers? You will automatically go from green to yellow to red under specific timers. Don't waste your time spamming and teching to one ship because you think you can build an invincible armada of counters that own your enemy faction. You would have around 20 min before you move to yellow (Where the ai will defend itself) while you are in green, at yellow you will have another 20 min, and after that 15 to get to red. ... or whatever.
Or we could make it that you occupy a red, yellow and green zone that is outlined on the map. Your star base is located in 'red' space, outlying areas are yellow, and green etc. The timeslots indicate where you will find ai ships and when. None will invade your 'home' space, until much later. etc.
Anyways, I could go on with ideas, but I know these get to be long posts.. and it probably already is, so lets see if theres even any interest. Obviously with current circumstances, i'm sure devs are busy, and not sure if they're even looking at this altered single player mode even, but some thoughts and ideas to perhaps spark interest. I'm least interested in the last idea, and it might be the most work to program ai like that, although i really have no idea. although, as we are getting into map orientated environment like changes for FO, having 'zones' that are almost under treaty, and may or may not be entered, or engage firing in might be interesting.
I am not a multiplayer, so of course this idea is curtailed in a certain direction, feel free to give suggestions.
In that light, ideas for AI start, and possible Player start Alternatives:
Double and Half:
Player starts at two starting locations, however his starting resources are halved (slightly more or less, than halved ... 1800 1200, 2100 900, exactly 2000 1000 etc).
With four construction ships, and two scouts with two starting locations, despite the early and extreme shortages, with two instant moon pairs at your disposable, with a very devoted economic start, you may quickly prosper and enjoy an ulterior game start.
Moon Starvation:
Given: 2 refineries, and six Miners (or equivalent).
You begin in a system that was initially intended to gain a particular resource for your faction, and you have already built two refineries and six miners and are heavily mining that one resource. You accrue in the region of 6000 di, or tri. and a have fairly marginal left over supply of the minor resource around 200-600 di or tri. You initially had 4000 2000, but your mission was to devote yourself to one of the two, and you did. However, new orders indicate a hostile threat in the system. New orders require you immediately begin establishing a military force in the area and investigate. Using your six miners provided, and 2 refineries, you must focus your efforts to quickly acquire your lacking resource, and begin station building for new fleets.
Fleet Start:
Given: Mixed fleet
You arrive at an AI control region of space with approximately 8-15 ships (cruiser being the strongest). There you find a small force of 6 ships of varied strength (at least 1 battleship), mining operations, and a weak turret defense and one yard.
You are invading the enemy system. Destroy all units in that region (like in the vicinity of one expansion, not the whole map). Once you do, two construction ships and 1 scout will appear. You will also be given a large sum of resources as reward for you military success.
First, build a star base. Then build the rest of your stations and units. Your enemy might attack, use whatever left over ships you have to defend until your star base is built, and other initial defences can be procured.
An Ai Alter Ego:
The Ai always has you outnumbered. In this scenario, it is no different. Except the AI is already at full force.
You are facing:
Three developed AI expansions (meaning a yard, at least one turret (probably more), full mining, and ships), however they are each of varying strength. The first is only small yard vessels. The second is Mostly small yard with introduction of larger. The final is all and a hefty size as well. The AI does not build anything until you attack the second expansion. It would be wise to completely demolish the first before moving onward. However, even when you do destroy the first expansion, while the Ai does build more vessels, it will not attack you full on. Featuring map layout:
Map Layout: You occupy a 'greenzone', once the first expansion is destroyed, it will turn to yellow. at yellow the Ai will start building ships and patrolling its borders, but will not attack you, but will send ships to defend its second expansion. Once you attack the second expansion, the yellow zone turns red, meaning the Ai will attack you directly. Make sure both initial assaults on the 1st and 2nd expansions leave the AI decimated. The colours green, yellow, and red, will just be markered somewhere on the screen. The first two expansions are without a SB.
Oh, and don't waste your time, did I not mention there are timers? You will automatically go from green to yellow to red under specific timers. Don't waste your time spamming and teching to one ship because you think you can build an invincible armada of counters that own your enemy faction. You would have around 20 min before you move to yellow (Where the ai will defend itself) while you are in green, at yellow you will have another 20 min, and after that 15 to get to red. ... or whatever.
Or we could make it that you occupy a red, yellow and green zone that is outlined on the map. Your star base is located in 'red' space, outlying areas are yellow, and green etc. The timeslots indicate where you will find ai ships and when. None will invade your 'home' space, until much later. etc.
Anyways, I could go on with ideas, but I know these get to be long posts.. and it probably already is, so lets see if theres even any interest. Obviously with current circumstances, i'm sure devs are busy, and not sure if they're even looking at this altered single player mode even, but some thoughts and ideas to perhaps spark interest. I'm least interested in the last idea, and it might be the most work to program ai like that, although i really have no idea. although, as we are getting into map orientated environment like changes for FO, having 'zones' that are almost under treaty, and may or may not be entered, or engage firing in might be interesting.
posted on April 24th, 2012, 9:42 pm
Last edited by Anonymous on April 25th, 2012, 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
These would be good campaing secnario starts, but i have no intrest seeing them implemented as single player options. adaptive ai would be awesome though
posted on April 25th, 2012, 12:13 am
Heavy Construction:
Sacrifice your starting scout for an additional construction ship.
Don't scout out your expansions, just instantly go to them and expand. The scout can be recouped early, later on.
Heavy Mining:
Sacrifice your starting scout for two miners.
Invest in economy first, after quick gains in di and tri, the new speedy scout build time will afford itself once your miners begin mining immediately.
Heavy Scouting:
Sacrifice a construction ship for two additional scouts.
Playing as a cloaking faction? Build the sacrificed construction ship immediately out of SB, followed by miners resulting in a slower uptime. However, gain all the benefits of a massive advantage in scouting and information relays. Know where the AI is at all times, and be well prepared for a large portion of the starting game when you have eyes to see everywhere.
Sacrifice your starting scout for an additional construction ship.
Don't scout out your expansions, just instantly go to them and expand. The scout can be recouped early, later on.
Heavy Mining:
Sacrifice your starting scout for two miners.
Invest in economy first, after quick gains in di and tri, the new speedy scout build time will afford itself once your miners begin mining immediately.
Heavy Scouting:
Sacrifice a construction ship for two additional scouts.
Playing as a cloaking faction? Build the sacrificed construction ship immediately out of SB, followed by miners resulting in a slower uptime. However, gain all the benefits of a massive advantage in scouting and information relays. Know where the AI is at all times, and be well prepared for a large portion of the starting game when you have eyes to see everywhere.
posted on April 25th, 2012, 1:07 pm
godsvoice wrote:Heavy Construction:
Sacrifice your starting scout for an additional construction ship.
Don't scout out your expansions, just instantly go to them and expand. The scout can be recouped early, later on.
Heavy Mining:
Sacrifice your starting scout for two miners.
Invest in economy first, after quick gains in di and tri, the new speedy scout build time will afford itself once your miners begin mining immediately.
Heavy Scouting:
Sacrifice a construction ship for two additional scouts.
Playing as a cloaking faction? Build the sacrificed construction ship immediately out of SB, followed by miners resulting in a slower uptime. However, gain all the benefits of a massive advantage in scouting and information relays. Know where the AI is at all times, and be well prepared for a large portion of the starting game when you have eyes to see everywhere.
An interesting thought, but I don't think one scout is worth one construction ship. maybe not even two scouts.
posted on April 25th, 2012, 1:11 pm
Then give them a destroyer with scout sensors...
posted on April 25th, 2012, 6:31 pm
Hmm, I'm assuming you mean the construction ship serves far more functionality, and sacrificing one of your two given ships is worth more than two scouts? Possibly. Perhaps a harder setting for those who like a challenge vs AI. You get better scouts, but slower development.
Race To Mining:
Similar to Moon Starvation, except... you are given a decent supply in one resource i.e. 5000 di (increase of 1000), and an extremely generous amount in the other, 5000 tri (increase of 3000). However, the map is custom made by map makers who like this idea (hopefully someone does) and the map is almost exclusively di. There is a central map location where tri can be found, but it will be a constant battle to maintain that resource holding.
Spend what tritanium you have wisely. As their might only be 2-5 moons of tri on the whole map, whereas you will have 40 potential di moons who raid. I.e. the ridiculousness of a 10 to 1 ratio.
Generally must be mid to larger side map. Home tri moon and di moon will always be present. But there is no expansion for tri moons. You must occupy the centre, or a region equivalent to a centre (or maybe the outskirts if need be) to get the extra tritanium.
.....
to settings, if you select tri surplus meaning there will be very few tri moons. However, if you select di surplus, could the map be programmed to just change all the "moons" from "tri" to "di"?
Race To Mining:
Similar to Moon Starvation, except... you are given a decent supply in one resource i.e. 5000 di (increase of 1000), and an extremely generous amount in the other, 5000 tri (increase of 3000). However, the map is custom made by map makers who like this idea (hopefully someone does) and the map is almost exclusively di. There is a central map location where tri can be found, but it will be a constant battle to maintain that resource holding.
Spend what tritanium you have wisely. As their might only be 2-5 moons of tri on the whole map, whereas you will have 40 potential di moons who raid. I.e. the ridiculousness of a 10 to 1 ratio.
Generally must be mid to larger side map. Home tri moon and di moon will always be present. But there is no expansion for tri moons. You must occupy the centre, or a region equivalent to a centre (or maybe the outskirts if need be) to get the extra tritanium.
.....
to settings, if you select tri surplus meaning there will be very few tri moons. However, if you select di surplus, could the map be programmed to just change all the "moons" from "tri" to "di"?
posted on April 27th, 2012, 6:26 pm
I like these ideas a lot. I would love to see these and more added in.
posted on April 27th, 2012, 7:02 pm
One thing I am planning to add as a minor mod is a Pre-Deployment mode in which there is only 1 resource and it cannot be mined. Every player starts out with a single yard that can build all their races' ships instantly, for an adjusted cost to match the now flat tech tree.
Basically you start, you choose your fleet, and you duke it out with your opponent. Should be great for learning micromanagement and ship countering.
Basically you start, you choose your fleet, and you duke it out with your opponent. Should be great for learning micromanagement and ship countering.
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