Swap intepid and Excelsior types

posted on June 11th, 2010, 8:30 pm

A simple suggestion, i propose making the intrepid a destroyer and the excel a cruiser.

currently if a romulan enemy fields shrikes a fed player can skip destroyers and make intrepids, meaning shrikes are worth a lot less against feds. i think the intrepid should be a destroyer, its small, fast and short range, doesnt sound like a cruiser to me.

while the excel is long range and slow, it "cruises" along it seems bigger as well.

this would give the shrikes some food against feds

posted on June 11th, 2010, 8:38 pm

So build Leahvals (your actual counter), or Rhienns I don't want the Shrike to be a one size fits all unit 

The Shrikes already do 50% extra to Intrepids (which is then reduced to zero extra damage). What would be the Federation's counter to Shrikes then? Die?

[Tyler]

posted on June 11th, 2010, 8:40 pm

Last edited by Tyler on June 11th, 2010, 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Destroyers are small, fast ships with combat either primarily or exclusivly in mind. Both Intrepid and Excelsior could count as that. Excelsior especially in comparison to the new ships that pushed it down the food-chain from its original place.

Cruisers are the primary combat ships. Intrepids could easily be classed as a Light cruiser (a small to medium-sized multi-purpose starship), but the Excelsior may have some trouble fitting in (the only type listing I can find for them is the DS9 Tech Manual classing them as Explorer, similar to the Galaxy).

posted on June 11th, 2010, 9:01 pm

as tyler said, destroyers are small and fast, the excel is not that small, its one of the biggest destroyers in the game i think, and its not fast either. it doesnt fit in with the other destroyers like bug/brel/monsoon etc.

also as tyler says cruisers are primary combat units, which is what the excel kinda is, its the most common warpin. its also bad for harassment due to slow speed.

@dom maybe the shrike could have its destroyer killing credentials toned down a bit, but its general usage toned up a small amount too. so it wont be only useful against destroyers, but will still be in its element against them, just maybe we will see them some other time. just in fewer numbers. i dont want the shrike to be one size fits all either, i want it to be good vs destroyers, just not as good as now, but have some reason to stay into later game other than harassment.

posted on June 11th, 2010, 9:44 pm

as tyler said, destroyers are small and fast, the excel is not that small, its one of the biggest destroyers in the game i think, and its not fast either. it doesnt fit in with the other destroyers like bug/brel/monsoon etc.

also as tyler says cruisers are primary combat units, which is what the excel kinda is, its the most common warpin. its also bad for harassment due to slow speed.

@dom maybe the shrike could have its destroyer killing credentials toned down a bit, but its general usage toned up a small amount too. so it wont be only useful against destroyers, but will still be in its element against them, just maybe we will see them some other time. just in fewer numbers. i dont want the shrike to be one size fits all either, i want it to be good vs destroyers, just not as good as now, but have some reason to stay into later game other than harassment.

So what's the reasoning then to require an entire rebalance of every other faction just to make the Intrepid a destroyer? The Shrike is good against all short ranged ships - it's a Defiant killer for instance. And yes, it is designed for ambush and harassment - I see no reason why it should change, as Romulan units are supposed to be static. You force your opponent to play by your rules, and that will get even more strongly pronounced in the future.

posted on June 11th, 2010, 9:53 pm

my shrike feelings arent just to make intrepid a destroyer, i was just using the shrike as an example. i think the shrike should stay useful later game. other than just for harassment. right now once destroyers are gone the shrike loses a lot of uses.

and i want the intrepid to be a destroyer cos thats how it fits best. the romulans are supposed to force u to play by their rules, but now the intrepids can laugh off shrikes by skipping destroyers. i just dont think the intrepid fits as a cruiser. while the excel does. the akira fits very well in its cruiser spot.

i think the shrike should stay good against destroyers, just not as good as it is now.

posted on June 11th, 2010, 9:56 pm

the romulans are supposed to force u to play by their rules, but now the intrepids can laugh off shrikes by skipping destroyers. i just dont think the intrepid fits as a cruiser. while the excel does. the akira fits very well in its cruiser spot.

That is why you...

So build Leahvals (your actual counter), or Rhienns I don't want the Shrike to be a one size fits all unit 

The Shrikes already do 50% extra to Intrepids (which is then reduced to zero extra damage). What would be the Federation's counter to Shrikes then? Die?

posted on June 11th, 2010, 10:17 pm

but then they have forced u to do something, ie playing by their rules lol.

posted on June 11th, 2010, 10:17 pm

Or you have forced them into doing what you want. I'm through arguing the point, it's pointless and balance-breaking.

posted on June 11th, 2010, 10:23 pm

I just don't understand the need for the change, myles.  And no offense, but I just don't get the logic, either.  The shrike is still decent vs the intrepid, and like dom said, there are counters.  If you make the Excel a cruiser (remember it's a REALLY old ship, so I'm not sure it fits the cruiser designation), then shrikes will be even worse against them, as they won't be able to disable weapons and the excel is long range, doing even more damage to shrikes.

The fact that the intrepid is fast is due to its short range, and not because "destroyers are all fast".  The defiant is almost as fast, and yet it's a battleship.

posted on June 11th, 2010, 10:24 pm

Intrepid Class meets the requirements for a Light cruiser quite well.

posted on June 11th, 2010, 10:25 pm

The Defiant is actually just as fast as the Intrepid in fact 

posted on June 11th, 2010, 10:43 pm

shrikes arent that good vs intrepids, cos intrepids are not destroyers, the shrikes wont kill them. if a player micros the intreps well they can avoid losing any intrepids.

my logic is that curently the feds can skip destroyers completely. i just guess i proposed the change to make the intrep fit more with its chassis class.

its not an important change, not even close, just something that was on my mind.

the defiant is quite correctly a battleship, its just so heavily armed and its special is really good versus late game ships.

posted on June 11th, 2010, 10:45 pm

I'm through arguing the point, it's pointless

your point is pointless boggz

 

BA-ZING!  :lol:


  Ninja'd by Myles.  You're asking for a massive balance-adjustment in the most balanced patch we've had in years, all because you don't think the Intrepid should be classified as a Cruiser.  Expect to take heat for this .

posted on June 11th, 2010, 10:46 pm

BA-ZING! 

That is EXACTLY what I was thinking of when I put that