Mixed-Tech Research Change

posted on November 16th, 2009, 6:04 pm

Some of the mixed tech vessels that races have are very good!  There are even a lot of smaller ships that have some nice abilities.  Unfortunately, by the time I can afford to build a mixed tech yard and not have it in the way of building my normal line-up and wait for the research to come in, a lot of those smaller ships are obsolete.  

Take the Borg Brel, for instance.  The regen ability would be nice for the early game.  But there's no way to get them that soon.  What I would like to see is mixed tech broken up into 3 stages, not unlike federation chassis upgrades.  For "level 1 ships", like destroyers, the research would be really fast and cheap, so that you could produce any destroyer level ships you may have.  Level 2 for cruisers, and Level 3 for Large ships, such as the Dreadnaught.  Level 3 would take a very long time to give you access to battleship level vessels, including the defiant variants and the Miranda II.

Now, I like the idea of forcing a progression, because the total amount of time to research all 3 researches could add up to the research time we have now.  But it would make the smaller vessels useful.  Right now, they're cute to look at while you cue up your heaviest ship, since you're in at least the middle game when you can finally do mixed tech (there are a few exceptions) and need all the firepower you can get.

The nice thing is it should be easy to implement, since all that's involved is changing some research and tech tree files.  

posted on November 16th, 2009, 6:14 pm

As much as i enjoy having a early game dreadnaught,  i like Mal's idea.

Maybe have a high cost, quick research for mixed tech.

You can only build the first level ship, just like at your regular yard, till you do whatever is necessary to get the next level sip and so on.

posted on November 16th, 2009, 6:31 pm

I actually think the problem will be fixed by the next patch, since early ships will retain their use 'till the end  . I do agree though, that if the 'lil ships aren't all they are knocked up to be (for the mixed-tech at least) it would be nice to split into different research categories so that we can pump out some earlier cool destroyers. A longish research time for each stage (or ship build time) would still be needed however, because as Optec has stated previously, mixed tech is not supposed to supplant normal ship production-but instead to complement it

posted on November 16th, 2009, 6:44 pm

I think the longer build times do that already (complement, I mean).  The standard brel takes 54 seconds to build and the borg mixed tech one takes 92 seconds.  So you're almost building 2 standard brels for every mixed tech one you make.  You are right about smaller units retaining use, especially interceptors.  I also remember that Optec said mixed tech was going to get a change, but since we don't know when that is, I figured this would be a way to help fix the system. 

Some things I want to know are what happens to really different mixed tech vessels, such as the rhienn pulse disruptor refit.  It doesn't have a 360 degree arc, and has a medium range.  Will that become an interceptor, while it's standard cousin does not?

posted on November 16th, 2009, 6:49 pm

Yeah, I think you are right about that for the most part - the only exception I see are some cruisers (like the Miranda II) which are easy enough to build without even going for normal vessels of that calibre. I agree whole heartedly about the Rhienn Pulse refit and the other types that have such dramatic changes - otherwise some of these Mixed tech vessels will become even more useless (or unappreciated) than they currently are (ever seen a Rhienn Pulse refit? I didn't think so ).

posted on November 16th, 2009, 6:57 pm

Oh yeah.  Miranda 2 definitely goes into level 3.   It's like the only ship you ever need with a dominion ally!  Some of the placement would be subjective.  For example, I would put the borg mixed tech remore in the level 3 spot as well, even though it's a cruiser, just because it's powerful and gets all the stat boosts.  I'm sure Optec might have a mathmatical way of ranking them as well.

posted on November 16th, 2009, 7:40 pm

I very much agree.

  If for no other reason than just because seeing a dreadnought out as a first or second vessel is ... annoying.  Miranda II's can in fact replace core shipbuilding and the Romulan Leahval mixed that has burst fire torpedoes is a nightmare  (Looks at Mort)

  I always want to play with units like the Rom-Brel and the Borg B'rel but they are simply not worth the time it takes to get them out.  The Borg regen ability is very useful seeing as you sneeze on a brel and it's life support goes out, but by the time you can have them they don't last long enough to make regen useful.  Their shields go down and 3 shots later they POP.

  Thumbs up for Mal. 

posted on November 16th, 2009, 8:38 pm

How about a balanced upgrade for each ship? Just like the dominion prototypes, except you just don't have a ship at the end.

posted on November 16th, 2009, 8:43 pm

I like that as well.

posted on November 16th, 2009, 9:58 pm

Sounds like a neat idea... signed

posted on November 16th, 2009, 10:18 pm

I like UM's suggestion because it's a lot less cumbersome than the 3 tier crap I was thinking of.  Then each race can have their own specific research times for each ship.  It makes sense to me that the noq'duj scout would take less time to research Dominion sensors than to conceive of a whole new vessel, like the Edjen or the Miranda-II.

posted on November 16th, 2009, 10:22 pm

I like UM's suggestion because it's a lot less cumbersome than the 3 tier crap I was thinking of.  Then each race can have their own specific research times for each ship.  It makes sense to me that the noq'duj scout would take less time to research Dominion sensors than to conceive of a whole new vessel, like the Edjen or the Miranda-II.

Quite a good point - I'm cool with Unleash's suggestion . Sounds like a fine way to balance mixed tech and make it useful all around.

posted on November 16th, 2009, 10:59 pm

Also  might be a good method to point out which ships are simply not worth using if they have to be researched independently.  Some simply aren't!    If B'rels were available quickly from the mixed yards I would go to great lengths to use them

posted on November 16th, 2009, 11:15 pm

Well, the research for brels might be very quick indeed.  Maybe about as long as the feds lvl 1 chassis upgrade.  There still should be some research time involved, I think.

posted on November 16th, 2009, 11:17 pm

i have some changes in mind for mixed tech to do something about that, but it will require further coding not in the upcoming ptch, but i will try to get it running soon