Miranda and Constitution classes

posted on December 29th, 2012, 2:38 am

I know people are groaning about it already, but here is my thinking anyway.

We have listed in the description of the Mandril class a blurb about it being based on the same design family as the Miranda class. We also know from TNG, and the Dominion War that Starfleet was lousy with Miranda class ships. So I suggest doing much the same with the Miranda as the Topmey does for the Klingons. It could be the Lantree variant seen below, just add the cargo pods in place of a rollbar. The idea being that since Mirandas were already so abundant, put them to use for something other than combat, unless the push comes to shove, they can ditch the pods and use their original phaser complement. Since it would be irreversible like the Topmey, perhaps you can charge a small to medium resource cost to re-attach the rollbar and regain photon usage, some new trick being added to the Topmey to compensate in the process. The mixed tech Mandril would be left as is, since its special would be the additional resource loading.



And as for the Constitution...I don't want the original or refit, but something else. Back in 2011, Star Trek Online did their new design the next Enterprise contest, and while the Odyssey won, my personal favorite was the Dedication class by Chris Madden. Contact would have to be made for permission of course, but wow, this thing is gorgeous. To me, it has that perfect blend of keeping the feel of the TMP Connie while still looking thoroughly modern and larger. I have no idea what role it could play, and honestly I care more about seeing it realized as a model than its role. Image below.



Now, you may continue groaning.

posted on December 29th, 2012, 4:01 am

Let me be the first to groan

I may be alone amongst Star Trek fans in my view, but since Star Trek is set in this reality (as far as we can tell anyway) it is logical to assume that general real world principles apply.

Fun as it might have been for the producers of DS9 to say "Oh just throw some Mirandas in there" since it was a design people would recognise, it's lead to this odd idea that the cutting edge, scientifically advanced Federation is prone to recommissioning 80 or 90 year old hulks and sending willing redshirts to their imminent deaths.

In a real life example, yes, during the darkest days of WWII, both Britain and America employed Destroyers dating back to the First World War. However, that was only 20 years prior. Technology hadn't changed vastly, but tactics and ergo design priorities had.

Sticking a Miranda in the Dominion War is like taking a 1916 Arethusa Class Light Cruiser and sticking it in a naval war in the mid 90's. No matter what you did to it, even gutting it down to the keel and rebuilding, you wouldn't get anything combat worthy. It'd be a best a suicide mission (taking a few down with you), at worst a futile waste for absolutely no gain.

The Constitution suffers from this problem even more. It's older, and it's a Heavy Cruiser ergo tactically even less flexible than a smaller ship. Smaller, cheaper hulls can often be re-purposed, as we saw with the Miranda being used as a Star Trek equivalent to a WWII Fast Transport constructed from an obsolete Destroyer. Larger hulls generally age worse, as they become to expensive in terms of maintenance and manpower to convert into anything else.

For those who start at this sentence and think "tl:dr" in short, they were great ships, and iconic Star Trek, but they belong in a Museum. Think of the Constitutions namesake "Old Ironsides". You wouldn't take it into battle in the First World War would you?

Remember, the Klingons keep designs in service for an eternity because;

A ) They aren't exactly fond of science. If it works, stick with it. If the enemy has more powerful weapons, simply increase the power to your own or mount even bigger ones. Brawn over brains.

B ) Their culture is centred around tradition. Ships have an almost spiritual connection.

C ) They WANT to die in battle. Survivability is of tertiary (see above) concern. If it mounts a big gun, and can move, it's good enough. The Federation sending it's citizens to die in century old death-traps? No. Political suicide for the incumbent president, and a cause of massive social unrest. As Civ teaches us, the populace in Democracies gets uppity if you send their sons and daughters to die in droves.

posted on December 29th, 2012, 4:09 am

Which shows you didn't really read what I had posted. The Dedication class is not the Constitution. Its an all new ship that is heavily inspired by the Constitution, just like the Miranda and Excelsior IIs we already have.

The idea for the original Miranda is to put it in a primarily noncombat role. You get to see a classic ship, but its not directly buildable, or a warp in, and would still pop like a soap bubble under modern fire, and have minimal firepower.

And we have several example of real ships being used for other things, the prime example being the HMS Warrior. That was the first iron hulled warship, built in 1860, and was still in actual use up until 1979 as a refueling ship.

posted on December 29th, 2012, 12:30 pm

I am aware that your Constitution suggestion was for a sort of "modern remake" not the original, I was simply stating that the larger the ship, the less likely it will be re-purposed. Please do not try and tell me that I haven't read your post. Might come across as insulting.

HMS Warrior was used as a fuel hulk, not a refuelling ship (an Oiler in naval parlance) there is a big difference. She was little more than a floating fuel tank. And that was only because the Royal Navy couldn't sell her in the early 1900s due to a down turn in the demand for scrap iron. As a warship was she considered obsolete in the early 1880s, only 20 years after she was built as the most modern and powerful ship in the world.

posted on December 29th, 2012, 6:19 pm

It could be the Lantree variant seen below, just add the cargo pods in place of a rollbar. The idea being that since Mirandas were already so abundant, put them to use for something other than combat, unless the push comes to shove, they can ditch the pods and use their original phaser complement. Since it would be irreversible like the Topmey, perhaps you can charge a small to medium resource cost to re-attach the rollbar and regain photon usage

Sounds good.

Unlike the Klingons, however, the Federation pods should be recoverable, albeit with a three-four minute window. If not retrieved in time, the power would run out. the SIF will fail and the hull will detonate, destroying the pods and the ores. They can also be fired upon, but have a low attack priority and no shields. Kind of like saying 'Oh, you dropped your ores to battle Bob? Ok I'm gonna screw you over by having my scout take out your containers.'

And as for the Constitution...

this thing is gorgeous. To me, it has that perfect blend of keeping the feel of the TMP Connie while still looking thoroughly modern and larger. I have no idea what role it could play, and honestly I care more about seeing it realized as a model than its role

I like the design. Old style with modern tech. For the role, I'd say a light or heavy cruiser. Give her Pulse Phaser Cannons and Quantumic torpedoes. Fast and maneuverable. Make cheap in Tritanium, but expensive for Dilithium. (I'm not saying anything about supply.)

Any opinions?

posted on December 30th, 2012, 2:45 am

I am aware that your Constitution suggestion was for a sort of "modern remake" not the original, I was simply stating that the larger the ship, the less likely it will be re-purposed

Its not a remake, refit, retrofit, re-purposed or re anything. Its a brand new spaceframe that takes some design cues from the Constitution. Just like the 2005+ Mustangs are a blend of old and new styles, while still being modern in every way that counts.

This particular ship was designed in a contest to be the 25th century 1701-F, so I'm not sure why you keep talking about older ship not holding up on a ship where there is nothing old about it. Also, given that the stated design goals of the contest was to bring ship design closer to the...*cringe*...Enterprise J, I'd imagine that this ship is at least at or close to the size of the Sovereign class.

As far as the Miranda goes, we already know they are versatile. It has more variants than any other ship in Starfleet that I can think of. The Reliant type with rollbar, the Lantree type without rollbar, the Saratoga type with no rollbar but with outboard pods, and even the soyuz class USS Bozeman is a variant of the basic frame. It just makes sense they would be used for lite duty as cargo/mining ships, especially since we know the Lantree was already a supply ship conversion. I envisioned doing the cargo pods locking into the aft shuttle bays, using them like an oversized docking port.

posted on December 30th, 2012, 1:32 pm

Its not a remake, refit, retrofit, re-purposed or re anything. Its a brand new spaceframe that takes some design cues from the Constitution. Just like the 2005+ Mustangs are a blend of old and new styles, while still being modern in every way that counts.

Should have called it a Constitution-II. It would be harder to make a mistake if you referred to it like the other homage ships.

posted on December 30th, 2012, 3:20 pm

it would be nice to see the miranda 2 mixed tech be a little more accessible, as its only with the capture of a dominion constructor



perhaps it could have different chassis for each mix tech?


doninion one with......Blockade Buster ability
borg one with.............torpedoes ability
klingon one with........duel targeting ability (3 on top promotion)
romulan one with.......improved sensors and a up-gradable tachyon ping?

posted on December 30th, 2012, 5:23 pm

Hi. I like the build ideas posted, but I think the next patch of this fine mod is going to have the miranda 2 as a main buildable ship rather than as a mixed tech ship. So it will be more accessible (check out the news post, fairly certain it was discussed when there was news about the federations new tech tree structure).

posted on December 30th, 2012, 7:09 pm

i would be grateful if anyone could find out if thats confirmed or not,
without searching every news post (taking ages to load the news posts for me to look for some reason..)
i found this





the "Calypso Class" fills in the classified box


the eraudi yard is
excelsior 2
then unknown what order for
akira
defiant
sovereign
+
avatar only ships

tho since the mixed tech yard is now a standard building perhaps mixed tech gets added to the normal yards as research and refits?
will be interesting to find out

posted on December 30th, 2012, 8:05 pm

Hum. I need to find some bacon to go with the egg on my face. . Thanks, I forgot about the calypso which is a very serious whoops, since it looks very cool and interesting (hurray for holoships). Anyway as I said I like your build idea's for the mixed tech. Each of the upgrades/modification you suggested fit in very well with the mixed tech partner race.

posted on December 30th, 2012, 8:58 pm

to be fair you could be right, it might of been excluded from the lists since they havnt announced(as far as i know) whats happening with the mixed tech since the "Cassiopeia" is now used as a standard build yard

posted on December 30th, 2012, 9:05 pm

The Miranda II will still only be available via Dominion-Federation mixed technology

posted on December 30th, 2012, 9:10 pm

Hurray :-) . Its a great wee ship., especially when you get it elite status (near or greater than 100 defensive value )