Map Request
Post ideas and suggestions on new features or improvements here.
posted on August 29th, 2012, 2:00 am
I was wondering if more maps similar to that Daka corridor one could be made, or the one with the stream of klingon turrets that divides the map.
I was wondering if perhaps alternate obstacles could be introduced in this new map.
Perhaps a disabled version of the command cube? A somewhat damaged version with fully disabled engines.
I know, I know, you're all thinking, 'but wait! borg don't stay fully disable they repair and fix everything'. Alright well some possible scenario where: borg ship receives heavy damage where life support and engines were severely severely damaged. Many borg drones were lost, and only a very small portion were left with a sparing amount of regeneration alcoves remained, only partially intact, and life support in a small area could be repaired on an ongoing basis to save what few drones survive. Connection to hive was lost, and they drifted into this 'isolated location of space'. The engines and larger scale life support is outside where the biological aspect of the borg can survive, and with low energy is simply not salvageable. Weapons are operational, sensors somewhat so as well. The ship can not be boarded or captured, as there is exceedingly low life support.
The root of the problem seems to be in the few remaining damaged regeneration alcoves. With relatively few borg left, and unable to fully regenerate, they can not sustain ongoing repairs and coordinate some sort of a beacon or regular attempt to reconnect with the hive or fully repair the ship. Normal activity is severely impaired. In order to survive, the small collective that remains, the tasks in order of priority are indefinitely: man weapons, continuously repair life support in the .039% of the ship that still has it, other repairs secondary to life support, and so on etc.
Therefore, we have a borg command cube as an obstacle between two areas of space. I like the idea of needing to build up a sizeable fleet before it's even possible to attack your opponent. And the first to attack will sustain heavy losses.
Perhaps the map command cube can be somewhat curtailed:
no engines
no life support (can not be captured equivalency)
fully operational weapons but damaged sensors, so hit chance is reduced somewhat from a fully functional command cube
something like 75% of normal hit rate.
hull 85% of normal, 15% is permanently lost. the rest the borg seem to have maintained
so it is doable, but you at least want to get some battleships out to do it. The four player set up thing like the other map seem ideal.
and yeah...
I was wondering if perhaps alternate obstacles could be introduced in this new map.
Perhaps a disabled version of the command cube? A somewhat damaged version with fully disabled engines.
I know, I know, you're all thinking, 'but wait! borg don't stay fully disable they repair and fix everything'. Alright well some possible scenario where: borg ship receives heavy damage where life support and engines were severely severely damaged. Many borg drones were lost, and only a very small portion were left with a sparing amount of regeneration alcoves remained, only partially intact, and life support in a small area could be repaired on an ongoing basis to save what few drones survive. Connection to hive was lost, and they drifted into this 'isolated location of space'. The engines and larger scale life support is outside where the biological aspect of the borg can survive, and with low energy is simply not salvageable. Weapons are operational, sensors somewhat so as well. The ship can not be boarded or captured, as there is exceedingly low life support.
The root of the problem seems to be in the few remaining damaged regeneration alcoves. With relatively few borg left, and unable to fully regenerate, they can not sustain ongoing repairs and coordinate some sort of a beacon or regular attempt to reconnect with the hive or fully repair the ship. Normal activity is severely impaired. In order to survive, the small collective that remains, the tasks in order of priority are indefinitely: man weapons, continuously repair life support in the .039% of the ship that still has it, other repairs secondary to life support, and so on etc.
Therefore, we have a borg command cube as an obstacle between two areas of space. I like the idea of needing to build up a sizeable fleet before it's even possible to attack your opponent. And the first to attack will sustain heavy losses.
Perhaps the map command cube can be somewhat curtailed:
no engines
no life support (can not be captured equivalency)
fully operational weapons but damaged sensors, so hit chance is reduced somewhat from a fully functional command cube
something like 75% of normal hit rate.
hull 85% of normal, 15% is permanently lost. the rest the borg seem to have maintained
so it is doable, but you at least want to get some battleships out to do it. The four player set up thing like the other map seem ideal.
and yeah...
posted on August 29th, 2012, 3:23 am
If the first to attack will take heavy losses, it'll encourage turtling. I mean, why attack when you can wait and hope your opponent is less patient than you?
Also, raiding is a major part of the game, and this would seriously detract from that.
Also, raiding is a major part of the game, and this would seriously detract from that.
posted on August 29th, 2012, 3:33 am
Well, I'm using the preexisting map as my qualifier.
The corridor map splits both sides of the map with several Klingon turrets.
I think it adds another element to the game.
There can still be games set up where players are on the same side of the map and duke it out.
Not necessarily turtling... you could expand to mine every moon on the board knowing your opponent can't attack for quite some time.
Once you're mining every moon spam large yard units.
Blow the cube out of the waters, and ride the wave and overrun opponent.
There is still the technical aspect of cloaking. A major advantage in this sort of map for romulans and klingons. But that already happens in the case of map with corridor.
Anyways, the precedent has already been set, I think it can be a fun release every once in a while to not be so obsessed with the droning of obvious overdone tactics such as early raiding.
The corridor map splits both sides of the map with several Klingon turrets.
I think it adds another element to the game.
There can still be games set up where players are on the same side of the map and duke it out.
Not necessarily turtling... you could expand to mine every moon on the board knowing your opponent can't attack for quite some time.
Once you're mining every moon spam large yard units.
Blow the cube out of the waters, and ride the wave and overrun opponent.
There is still the technical aspect of cloaking. A major advantage in this sort of map for romulans and klingons. But that already happens in the case of map with corridor.
Anyways, the precedent has already been set, I think it can be a fun release every once in a while to not be so obsessed with the droning of obvious overdone tactics such as early raiding.
posted on August 29th, 2012, 5:49 pm
a few ideas to change up the gameplay...
you could create enemy starbases at key places.
put a couple of defenses at each expansion
try putting moons inside nebulas
is it possible to put map owned ships on attack patrol?
(iv been planning to do these at some stage but i just dont have the time/effort atm)
you could create enemy starbases at key places.
put a couple of defenses at each expansion
try putting moons inside nebulas
is it possible to put map owned ships on attack patrol?
(iv been planning to do these at some stage but i just dont have the time/effort atm)
posted on August 29th, 2012, 6:01 pm
Like you said, cloaking would really unbalance this.
posted on August 29th, 2012, 6:02 pm
Actually, I love that one idea.
Having a third party sort of double turret defence at a second expansion.
I think it's fair if we give all players their home and first expansion, so two moon pairs.
But perhaps on maps where you can really expand you have some obstacle (all third party):
1) 1-3 enemy turrets at moon pairs
2) cloaked ship (s), only trigger for it to uncloak and attack is a construction ship/miner. You could use cloak detect on it and kill it, but it won't attack armed targets. It's not on that kind of a mission, it's targeting low priority units. If armed units come, it more hopes that they have no method of detection and will just move on.
3) Starbase and heavily fortified structure formations (turrets/starbase/ship combinations) Ships will not leave a 'green zone', which is designated as the given area: typically the centre of map, or particular pathways.
4) pirates in nebulas: when you go to nebulas (green for repair, purple for evading detection, or blue playing chicken with your enemy and your both using your shields etc) possibility of turrets lining the outside of the nebula that you have to destroy to gain access, or pirate ships giving the devs a reason to develop ships from the show that are not the fab 5 races you see in game. Perhaps some cardassian unit is scurrying about, or any other number of ships seen in the show. Could be a fun task for devs (or not, I'm not sure what devs like to work on)
Something like that, makes the map feel a bit more dangerous.
Having a third party sort of double turret defence at a second expansion.
I think it's fair if we give all players their home and first expansion, so two moon pairs.
But perhaps on maps where you can really expand you have some obstacle (all third party):
1) 1-3 enemy turrets at moon pairs
2) cloaked ship (s), only trigger for it to uncloak and attack is a construction ship/miner. You could use cloak detect on it and kill it, but it won't attack armed targets. It's not on that kind of a mission, it's targeting low priority units. If armed units come, it more hopes that they have no method of detection and will just move on.
3) Starbase and heavily fortified structure formations (turrets/starbase/ship combinations) Ships will not leave a 'green zone', which is designated as the given area: typically the centre of map, or particular pathways.
4) pirates in nebulas: when you go to nebulas (green for repair, purple for evading detection, or blue playing chicken with your enemy and your both using your shields etc) possibility of turrets lining the outside of the nebula that you have to destroy to gain access, or pirate ships giving the devs a reason to develop ships from the show that are not the fab 5 races you see in game. Perhaps some cardassian unit is scurrying about, or any other number of ships seen in the show. Could be a fun task for devs (or not, I'm not sure what devs like to work on)
Something like that, makes the map feel a bit more dangerous.
posted on August 29th, 2012, 6:10 pm
Yes, with corridor might have to ask creator of the other map how that was taken into account (cloaking advantage).
One other thing, with just the single cube, it is actually a bit better than the klingon turret run.
With the k. turrets, if you take ten ships and pass that corridor they get shot all along the way many times (probably all die or take heavy damage).
If you take ten ships and go by the cube, sure maybe a command cube can single shot a few sabres, and damage some other ships, but you could reasonably mount an attack with a number of vessels. Once you pass the shooting range of one ship, you are on the other side. But then retreating back to your own space becomes just as daunting.
Isn't it exciting?! All the planning you would now have to do. And I think this is realistic. Mounting a 'raid' or offensive is more than just the risk you run against your opponent, what are random other things that might go wrong? Now you would have other things to consider.
But the one pass can be done. It isn't necessarily destroying the cube out right, just building ships planning for cannon fodder, and having some ships survive to carry out the mission. Just as exciting! Cannon fodder is now actually a part of fleet ops?!!! Currently, every vessel is integral. No More! Imagine creating scenarios where you realize all sides are going to need ships that just blow up, cause there's a damned command cube on the map ( son of 8itch )!
(lol idk)
One other thing, with just the single cube, it is actually a bit better than the klingon turret run.
With the k. turrets, if you take ten ships and pass that corridor they get shot all along the way many times (probably all die or take heavy damage).
If you take ten ships and go by the cube, sure maybe a command cube can single shot a few sabres, and damage some other ships, but you could reasonably mount an attack with a number of vessels. Once you pass the shooting range of one ship, you are on the other side. But then retreating back to your own space becomes just as daunting.
Isn't it exciting?! All the planning you would now have to do. And I think this is realistic. Mounting a 'raid' or offensive is more than just the risk you run against your opponent, what are random other things that might go wrong? Now you would have other things to consider.
But the one pass can be done. It isn't necessarily destroying the cube out right, just building ships planning for cannon fodder, and having some ships survive to carry out the mission. Just as exciting! Cannon fodder is now actually a part of fleet ops?!!! Currently, every vessel is integral. No More! Imagine creating scenarios where you realize all sides are going to need ships that just blow up, cause there's a damned command cube on the map ( son of 8itch )!
(lol idk)
posted on August 30th, 2012, 7:34 pm
Because cannon fodder is such an important idea to star trek and star ships in general...
posted on August 30th, 2012, 8:06 pm
hmm what? i don't even know what you mean. are we talking strictly trek? strategy? realism? war?
cannon fodder is in direct relation to quantity and quality. few and higher quality your borg and you won't have any. many and lower quality, it's an inevitability unless your fighting someone limited to sticks. as soon as bow and arrow were mass produced, you kind of had a hail storm of pain. don't act as if we never saw this in trek
I see no reason why star trek is any different. recommissioning ships like e1s to go into battle, and mirandas to fight dominion wars... thats not an act of desperation that leads to cannon fodder is it?
It isn't about any kind of importance towards cannon fodder, you just have to deal with the fact of it.
I get FO goes for conserving every few vessels you can make, and perhaps its even legitimate for fighting over a particular size of space/sector. But at some point, the scale and context of war just lends towards such things.
Star trek might be a futuristic ideal, and I'm an idealist, but star trek got rid of money and introduced 'credits' ferengi and gold pressed latinum, and the wars are not fought by automated ships where no one dies.
The show was still designed to relate to modern humans, yes?
And as for my comment... maybe I was advertising cannon fodder in a clumsy way as though it did have importance. It's not that anyone ever plans some fantastic way of utilizing cannon fodder, its that you must prepare for it. There is no advantage to it, but we're just selecting our framework. Small resource start. Low key, not big enough to really get into that scenario. But if you extend the game to allow for a larger base, a larger fleet... it's going to come about. I guess I'm just making that easier, but I don't see what you mean.
cannon fodder is in direct relation to quantity and quality. few and higher quality your borg and you won't have any. many and lower quality, it's an inevitability unless your fighting someone limited to sticks. as soon as bow and arrow were mass produced, you kind of had a hail storm of pain. don't act as if we never saw this in trek
I see no reason why star trek is any different. recommissioning ships like e1s to go into battle, and mirandas to fight dominion wars... thats not an act of desperation that leads to cannon fodder is it?
It isn't about any kind of importance towards cannon fodder, you just have to deal with the fact of it.
I get FO goes for conserving every few vessels you can make, and perhaps its even legitimate for fighting over a particular size of space/sector. But at some point, the scale and context of war just lends towards such things.
Star trek might be a futuristic ideal, and I'm an idealist, but star trek got rid of money and introduced 'credits' ferengi and gold pressed latinum, and the wars are not fought by automated ships where no one dies.
The show was still designed to relate to modern humans, yes?
And as for my comment... maybe I was advertising cannon fodder in a clumsy way as though it did have importance. It's not that anyone ever plans some fantastic way of utilizing cannon fodder, its that you must prepare for it. There is no advantage to it, but we're just selecting our framework. Small resource start. Low key, not big enough to really get into that scenario. But if you extend the game to allow for a larger base, a larger fleet... it's going to come about. I guess I'm just making that easier, but I don't see what you mean.
posted on September 2nd, 2012, 12:13 am
While ships may sometimes die quickly in Star Trek, I don't think any of the major races really embrace the idea of cannon fodder (except maybe with the races that subjugate other races and use them as such).
I also still don't see how adding a map that encourages turtling and heavily favors cloaking factions is a good idea..
I also still don't see how adding a map that encourages turtling and heavily favors cloaking factions is a good idea..
posted on September 2nd, 2012, 9:24 am
Ruanek wrote:While ships may sometimes die quickly in Star Trek, I don't think any of the major races really embrace the idea of cannon fodder (except maybe with the races that subjugate other races and use them as such).
The Dominion and Borg both intentionally use cannon fodder for their main army, though for different reasons. That's only 2 of the current 5 races, though.
Maps that favor races with specific abilities could be good for a challenge every so often, they could also be good singleplayer practice for when you need to face them online.
posted on September 2nd, 2012, 2:56 pm
No body embraces cannon fodder. It's simply that it happens.
FC when you hear them say they've ... attacked that colony or whatever and were detected by deep space 5 ... broken through defences around mars?? ... and it's clear they need help.
That is an instance of one super quality ship cube making cannon fodder out of petty federation vessels.
It would probably continued to have done so had the sovereign not swooped in with the captain that could 'hear them' and concentrate on a good target to blow it up. Without that, things would be quite different in that battle pretty safe to say.
Federation can't match a Command Cube with a single vessel, the U.S.S. OP Uber Enterprise, so it attacks with as many vessels as they can, and some get slaughtered.
FC when you hear them say they've ... attacked that colony or whatever and were detected by deep space 5 ... broken through defences around mars?? ... and it's clear they need help.
That is an instance of one super quality ship cube making cannon fodder out of petty federation vessels.
It would probably continued to have done so had the sovereign not swooped in with the captain that could 'hear them' and concentrate on a good target to blow it up. Without that, things would be quite different in that battle pretty safe to say.
Federation can't match a Command Cube with a single vessel, the U.S.S. OP Uber Enterprise, so it attacks with as many vessels as they can, and some get slaughtered.
posted on September 2nd, 2012, 3:38 pm
As I said, the Dominion and Borg tactics are heavy on canon, both of which include sending large numbers of soldiers to die to overwhelm an enemy with numbers. It's only limited to the drones with the Borg, though.
The Dominion even breeds their soldiers with no self-preservation instinct so they charge to their deaths without a second thought in both land and ship battles as the standard. Jerk Gods + Expendable and worthless soldiers = Great Zerg rush.
The Dominion even breeds their soldiers with no self-preservation instinct so they charge to their deaths without a second thought in both land and ship battles as the standard. Jerk Gods + Expendable and worthless soldiers = Great Zerg rush.
posted on September 2nd, 2012, 5:29 pm
My main point is FO doesn't encourage players to play using some ships with a cannon fodder mentality, nor does Star Trek support that (except with Borg drones and some aspects of Dominion society, discussed above).
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