Legends

[Yaso Kuuhl]

posted on November 28th, 2004, 10:45 am

Last edited by Yaso Kuuhl on November 28th, 2004, 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Got a funny little idea while thinking about the hospital ship.

We've had discussions about what hero ships can do, what they should be able to do, and mostly why it would make sense for them to have such superior stats. Now I'm thinking: What would it be that changes e.g. the Enterprise-E from any other Sovereign in a battle? The answer is simple.

She's legendary.

The very appearance of the Enterprise (or a similar flagship for the other races) would lift morale of the crews around, and enable them to fight better, even if the battle was as good as lost already. Add some clever battle commands from someone as experienced as Picard and you have a more efficient fleet.

Now how would that look in Fleetops?

Simple. Hero ships make allies within a certain radius perform better. The special weapons that achieved the necessary effects were already there in original AII. I'm thinking about stuff like the weapons enhancer on the Koloth or the Fek'lhr's battle cry (or whatever it was called). We could have fleets that aim better, do slightly more damage, recharge their shields and repair faster, move faster, I don't know what is possible, but some of those surely are. Jus a few changes would be necessary:
- Remove the special weapons cost and button and possibly make it always on, like the original detection grid. After all, a legendary ship is always legendary.
- Remove the graphical effects or replace them with something very subtle. No need for a ship to display in bright colors "OMG CPTN PICARD WE R SO BOOSTED".

Okay, that's too much text already, but I could think of more stuff in connection with this if you all like the idea.

posted on November 28th, 2004, 11:12 am

Well I like the idea, but I think that its not the ship thats legendary, its the crew
U could also say this for the defiant, but it was destroyed and then they made another and it performed just as good as the previous one
So anyway I like this idea but it would be great if instead of ships you could do this for the crew


Oh and just 1 more thing, when the ship(crew) dies in battle that should then have a negative effect on your other ships, doubt thats possible, but thats the way it should work

posted on November 28th, 2004, 12:36 pm

I can tell you simply why hero ships are a bad idea. Heres why...

Many ships can have just as experianced crews or done some of the things the Enterprise or the Defiant or Voyager have done, not so much Voyager actually. These ships in reality are no differant from other ships in the fleet and they shouldn't be any more powerful.

Starfleet has set standards which all the crew abide to which makes them for the most part no differant from any others. Morale is universal thru the fleet, because every ship is in touch with one another.

posted on November 28th, 2004, 2:32 pm

Well the thing is, that some ships do stand out of a crowd, saying all ships are the same is not true, just look at current time military I doubt all the Abramses are the same strenght, there are a lot of factors which decide. Like how fast can loader load the new shell, how acuratly can the gunner shoot, how fast can commander aquire a target,.... But in its basic design all of the abramses are the same and all of the crew are trained in the same way, but still there are things that makes some crews stand up

Same can be said for the hero ships, these are simply ships with better crew, but basically same ship as there already are in their fleets

posted on November 28th, 2004, 2:42 pm

I do believe in hero ships, think they make sense, think that the ship makes more sense than a legendary crew just from an interface perspective, and like the mechanism of inspiring other ships nearby.

[Yaso Kuuhl]

posted on November 28th, 2004, 2:49 pm

Last edited by Yaso Kuuhl on November 28th, 2004, 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

And whether the ship and its crew are actually better than others - their reputation is sure to have an effect on other crews.

Think less in Federation terms, maybe, but perhaps in Klingon ones.
Imagine you're the commander of a bird of prey, and on the losing end of a battle, when suddenly General Martok's cruiser arrives at the edge of the battle, blasting away at the enemies. The crew cheers, maybe breaks out into a war song (okay, that might or might not happen, but imagining is fun) and the desperate Klingon forces, reinspired, regroup for another assault.

True, Federation crews are at a pretty high standard altogether, but I think even among them are more and less experienced crews (and captains) which will react positively to a "famous" vessel in the area.
EDIT: And I DO believe the Enterprise holds the best crew in Starfleet. She's the flagship, and one of the most advanced ships in the fleet, and she'll be in some most important missions, why not crew her with the best they've got?

Or having some Admiral's ship in the area, acting as a command ship, giving orders to the fleet to use the resources at hand most effectively will have a similar effect. Yes, it could even be built into a whole class of 'command cruisers', as which Galaxy, Sovereign, D'deridex, Negh'Var and similar classes often act.

EDIT: And Baron is certainly right that the crew is important, not the ship, but it's MUCH easier that way. and "I'm Captain Picard of the USS Florence" or whatever doesn't have the same ring to it.
MORE EDIT: Maybe they'll just do it like with the Enterprise-A or the Defiant... take some ship of the same class, spray-paint a new name and registry on it, voilá, we have our hero ship back. (Or, in FleetOps: just build/call in a new one) And we can assume that even if the ship is destroyed, our her crew always gets out of there in time...

posted on November 28th, 2004, 3:42 pm

hehe yep. we will look closer at the hero and legend topic in v4

posted on November 28th, 2004, 5:42 pm

Hero ships create unbalance, to have a Sovern more powerful then another Sovern or a BoP more powerful then another BoP is senseless. If they are put in I request a toggle so I can turn them off.

posted on November 28th, 2004, 6:54 pm

Well the thing is, with heroes the whole gameplay changes so one will have to adapt to that, but anyway I look forward to them

posted on November 28th, 2004, 6:56 pm

I still want a toggle, god help you all if theres no toggle.

posted on November 28th, 2004, 7:28 pm

well see the idea of "special units" lets call em

well on the plus side make u feel better about ur fleets possibly have bonuses and blah blah blah

negative unbalanced

but then again if u gave each race a good hero at what it does then it would be good for example Feds - Enterprise E Klings - Martok Negvar Borg - Wolf 359 cube

posted on November 28th, 2004, 7:32 pm

It still makes no sense, all races have some experianced and unexperianced crews.

To make a single ship with more hull points when we know it doesn't have a stronger hull is unrealistic and could potentially ruin gameplay. Same for weapons, shields, crew number, propulsion, sensor range...If you throw this in it might ruin the mod. I can't stress enough how mad i'd be to lose 5 Rhiens to a single Sovern because it's registeries are Enterprise 1701 - E.

posted on November 28th, 2004, 7:55 pm

but then again if u had ur hero ?

say the fed man looses 5 akiras?

posted on November 28th, 2004, 7:57 pm

I don't want a flagship. If I had a Valdore for example, I would want it just as powerful as the rest as it SHOULD be already.

posted on November 28th, 2004, 8:50 pm

I think it's a great idea...having a hero ship would be awesome...But I suggested that a ship like the Enterprise be made into an avatar instead of simply having a hero ship appear.. The Enterprise shouldn't be more powerful or have more weapons...but maybe simply have a little bit faster shield recharge and repair rate...number of weapons and weapon strength should be the same for all sovereign class ships.. she just needs something to distinguish herself from all the other ships or even the other sovereigns....Admiral's sovereign mod had an awesome weapon...a modification of the klingon battle cry made into the FTCS Fleet Tactical Command System reorganizing ships to increase their combat effectiveness.