idea for bug ramming

posted on December 23rd, 2010, 9:07 pm

Just a thought for bug ramming.

When a ship gets rammed (and not insta killed) it's basicly just spinning out of control.

Have an effect that lasts just as long as the engine disabler effect that in essence makes the ships both have a much lower chance to be hit and unable to hit targets itself. If the engines are damaged allready and thus stay offline when a disabler effect hits it, then once the disabler effects time limit is over, the ship can once again be hit again and likewise hit targets itself.

Past that, larger ships (mainly the bigger borg ones) shouldnt have their engines disabled when rammed, instead have the bug do straight out damage to large ships/objects when they ram (or just do damage to systems) instead of instantly disabling a system.

posted on December 23rd, 2010, 10:10 pm

Have an effect that lasts just as long as the engine disabler effect that in essence makes the ships both have a much lower chance to be hit and unable to hit targets itself.

Quote from the guide:

"But Star Trek weapon technology and targettng computers are so advanced (at least in The Next Generation) that the weapons nearly always hit the target. A photon torpedo is able to correct its course completely, so you just would have to fire one torpedo on a fighter and that's it. Usually a twenty fourth century starship computer would be good enough to pre-calculate movement, as even your personal computer can do that (which is also why moving vessels in Fleet Operations receive no weapon avoidance benefits)!"

posted on December 23rd, 2010, 10:17 pm

You're talking about computers on a ship that just got rammed, do you think the ships computer is going to work as well as it should?

I'm neutral on the idea, just wanted to be sure you remembered damage has a tendancy to impare tech. It's not standard 'movement bonus' if it's caused by system damage, though would fit better if sensors were damaged but not disabled.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on December 24th, 2010, 6:04 am

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on December 24th, 2010, 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

You're talking about computers on a ship that just got rammed, do you think the ships computer is going to work as well as it should?

I'm neutral on the idea, just wanted to be sure you remembered damage has a tendancy to impare tech. It's not standard 'movement bonus' if it's caused by system damage, though would fit better if sensors were damaged but not disabled.

The computer resides deep inside the ship. IIRC Voyager once had its computer core stolen. The stuff you see on the bridge and engineering and such are either just interfaces connected to the core, or have their own processors to go with the displays and are also connected to the core as redundancy. Either way the computer is gonna perform even with a big chunk of ship missing.
Also, when have we ever seen a ship's computer have trouble working due to hull damage?

And even if there is somehow damage, keep in mind the bit about even a personal computer being able to calculate such trivial things as movement. Even if you still disagree about whether they can do that, we're talking FO canon here, which is pretty clear on the matter.

[Tyler]

posted on December 24th, 2010, 12:42 pm

Last edited by Tyler on December 24th, 2010, 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

How deep in is irrelevent in anything Star Trek, weapon hits to the hull takes anything out and ramming with a ship that would tear through the ship wouldn't be much different. Remember those bug hitting that Vor'cha at the Chin'Toka battle? Cut clear though the ship from 1 end to the other.

FO canon doesn't matter because it's not being discussed, the side effect of ramming is, namely a large starship plowing straight into it. Smash your computer with a hammer moving at high Impulse and a low of explosive objects on it, how many calulations will it do? And how well will they perferm when the part of the ship torn through is exactly where the computer is?

There's also the sensors being on or just under the hull, which are vital to the function of the computer. Which I suggested as an alertnate for the ram to screw with.

posted on December 24th, 2010, 2:33 pm

How deep in is irrelevent in anything Star Trek,

deeper is definitely relevant.

[Tok`ra]

posted on December 25th, 2010, 10:34 am

Last edited by Tok`ra on December 25th, 2010, 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Quote from the guide:

"But Star Trek weapon technology and targettng computers are so advanced (at least in The Next Generation) that the weapons nearly always hit the target. A photon torpedo is able to correct its course completely, so you just would have to fire one torpedo on a fighter and that's it. Usually a twenty fourth century starship computer would be good enough to pre-calculate movement, as even your personal computer can do that (which is also why moving vessels in Fleet Operations receive no weapon avoidance benefits)!"

Execpt we see evasive action orderd in multiple episodes and movies. Why ? Because its possible to evade.

We also see ships missed, for the same reason, in flops.

You're talking about computers on a ship that just got rammed, do you think the ships computer is going to work as well as it should?

I'm neutral on the idea, just wanted to be sure you remembered damage has a tendancy to impare tech. It's not standard 'movement bonus' if it's caused by system damage, though would fit better if sensors were damaged but not disabled.

If they're not knocked offline or damaged, then yes they would work. However exterior components like sensors may very well be impaired.

And I think you meant engines not sensors as far as being disabled.

FO canon doesn't matter because it's not being discussed, the side effect of ramming is, namely a large starship plowing straight into it. Smash your computer with a hammer moving at high Impulse and a low of explosive objects on it, how many calulations will it do? And how well will they perferm when the part of the ship torn through is exactly where the computer is?

There's also the sensors being on or just under the hull, which are vital to the function of the computer. Which I suggested as an alertnate for the ram to screw with.

Well in flops cannon, ships are easily missed all the time. So on that same vein of thought, a ship (as long as its not too large) that just got rammed, and is spinning out of control, should be much harder to hit (and likewise harder for it to shoot too).

Knocking sensors off due to an impact wouldnt really do much, it'd not even make sense, as the only sensors destroyed would be any physicaly impacted.

Far better would be to have several effects of the ram.

1- Sheilds still up: The ram delivers a semi random ammount of damage to the sheilds, if they fail, the ship takes a mix of system and hull damage with a random system having a chance of being knocked offline for a period of time OR damage across all systems, but none knocked offline unless they were allready damaged. If the shield remains online, no damage past that.

2- Shields down (or borg w/o shield): The Hull takes extra damage, as it is rammed directly with nothing to slow the impact other than armor and the SIF. The systems take much more damage, a low chance for a single random system to be destroyed, and a moderate chance for a system to be knocked offline, mostly just high damage to all systems plus the hull damage.


Now, past that, the size of the vessel being rammed should matter. A lot. We see a Galaxy Class get rammed three times in DS9, after being shot up.

We also see BoPs and Vor'Chas being rammed and killed by a single ship.

So, ram effect should depend on what is rammed.

All scouts should die right away. Smaller ships should also likewise be killed off with a small chance to survive (a glancing blow may let it survive) but with massive system/hull/shield damage. A Galaxy class (no rank) and ships of a similar size should take 3ish bug rams to kill, and larger ships should take even more. A bug should be able to ram a station, but the damage done should be much less unless sheilds are down, and then mostly in system damage.

As for Borg, detector, probe, dode, scube, adaptor, should all be at risk from this, and take high hull/system damage. Assimilator, Pyrimad, Sphere, Diamond, are all quite large, and should just take a decent ammount of hull damage and light system damage (borg ships are redundent, so the systems would take far less damage). Cubes should take straight out hull damage from the ram, no or little system damage.

posted on December 25th, 2010, 11:19 am

Now, past that, the size of the vessel being rammed should matter. A lot. We see a Galaxy Class get rammed three times in DS9, after being shot up.

We also see BoPs and Vor'Chas being rammed and killed by a single ship.

The Odyssey was only rammed by one ship when it was destroyed, and had no shields as the power from them had been rerouted to other systems (since they were completely ineffective anyway).

Voyager showed us that ramming ships will bounce off shields if they are up (as shown by the Kazon ramming ship in 'Maneuvers' and by Kes' ship in 'Fury') so I do agree with your idea that ramming only does hull damage if the shields are down.

[Tyler]

posted on December 25th, 2010, 11:40 am

Last edited by Tyler on December 25th, 2010, 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

And I think you meant engines not sensors as far as being disabled.

No, I meant sensors. Unless you've forgotten what actually tracks ships and allows the weapons to target the enemy in the first place.

Knocking sensors off due to an impact wouldnt really do much, it'd not even make sense, as the only sensors destroyed would be any physicaly impacted.

It actually makes more sense than not hitting something just because it's spinning; ships tend to have a large, central hub and smaller, less capable sensors. Systems have a central hub that ties them to the computer and controls, which Trek has repetedly shown can be used to disable the entire system.

Also, Poleron Torps don't hit the entire ship.