FO Improvements

posted on December 17th, 2007, 6:03 am

First of all, I would like to commend the FO team on this outstanding modification. I never thought Armada II could be taken to this level; Birth of the Federation should have been this way. I can't wait unitl the full release. I've always wanted to see who would win in a war: The Borg vs. The Dominion

Of course with every modification, there is room for improvement. Therefore I've created a list of improvements that should be considered for the full release.

1) Outpost Weapons-Strength + Rate of Fire: Outpost weapons much too weak. These should definately be increased to hold off maurading fleets while your fleet is fighting elsewhere.

2) Resource management: A single frieghter costs more than the amount of resources it can carry. It also takes a large number of freighters(12+) to obtain enough income to support a sizeable fleet, and conduct research. Mining freighters should cost less and carry more cargo.

3) StarFleet Command + Credits: These items are utterly useless. Save credits for building ships from the shipyards, and use resources for constructing them over StarFleet Command.

*The number of special ships is severely limited, and you can construct equal or better ships from the yards. This system should be scrapped, but certainly improved if it must remain. For example,  one could hail a fleet of 5-6 ships to warp in at the cost of credits. Have the warp in time set to 30 seconds. Remember the 6 starships that came to defend DS9 in Way of the Warrior?

4) Starships: Most ships should come equipped with torpedoes. It's tedious paying attention to cruiser classes like the Intrepid, clicking away on a Tri-Cobalt icon. The crew counts should also be increased according to the canon stats. Ex. Galaxy should have 1012 crew. It's frustrating to have your Jem Hadar battlecruiser crumble in battle because she's undercrewed.

Galaxy Class: This ship is underpowered as a battleship. It should be stronger than Defiant and Excelsior II, but weaker than Sovereign. A Dominion War Galaxy should also be available. They should also be given multi-target torpedoes like the one's seen in "Yesterday's Enterprise". The special defense weapon is weak. Same with the Akira.

Defiant Class: This vessel should be equipped with a cloak and quantum torpedoes.

Nebula Class: This vessel should come in two versions, Torpedo Platform and Sensor Variant(Phoenix).

Ambassador Class: Where is the Ambassador Class?

Mediterranean Class: This ship is almost as big as the outpost! Could use a scale adjustment.

6) The Cardassian Union should be included, or at least come as part of the Dominion

posted on December 17th, 2007, 7:00 am

*3) StarFleet Command + Credits: These items are utterly useless. Save credits for building ships from the shipyards, and use resources for constructing them over StarFleet Command.*

Wrong!

It's a huge way to pump out ships for FREE! And it's important in Multiplayer.

*
Defiant Class: This vessel should be equipped with a cloak and quantum torpedoes.*

Wrong!

Only the USS Defiant had the cloak canonically and the torpedoes are there as a special ability.

Sorry for sounding rude, but we can't give ships their total amount of weapons, otherwise it would destroy gameplay -.-.

posted on December 17th, 2007, 8:33 am

Sorry for sounding rude, but we can't give ships their total amount of weapons, otherwise it would destroy gameplay

[b]There's no sorry for being rude otherwise you wouldn't have been. At any rate, I don't care.

My message is primarily for the FO staff. The Feature Request forum is for making suggestions for improvement, so blatantly telling me I am just wrong is EXTREMELY ignorant. If you don't like my message talk to the moderators about it. I'm sure they'd be happy to help you.

So you think StarFleet Command absolutely thrilling? That's fantastic, good for you, bravo, have a cookie, but its merely [b]YOU'RE opinion and nothing more.

However, I do think it needs improvement and I will continue to make any suggestion I feel necessary to improve gameplay in general for the community.[/b][/b]

[Rhaz]

posted on December 17th, 2007, 2:40 pm

Last edited by Rhaz on December 17th, 2007, 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well, I see you also saw the need to bold your text, as well as making it red, to stand out.

And, I really didn't mean to seem hostile, just say it hasn't been the first time that a BC or SFC player has demanded that ships be made more 'realistic' or 'canon' which is not exactly possible in the context of Armada 2. I'm sorry for coming off that way.

And with regards to the Dominion War Galaxy refit, I think that the ship is fine the way it is, seeing as the Excelsior II is refitted with Quantum torpedoes, new Armor and phaser arrays it can be equal to or a bit more powerful than the Galaxy Class. And the only real changes on the Dominion War refit would be the ventral phaser arrays and those again, would be unlikely to be portrayed as anything more than a small increase in fire rate. I think the Torpedoes are fine as they are, because the predominant torpedo effect in star trek is the single red blob. I personally think the Galaxy class does need a slight buff though, maybe by 1 or 2 offensive power, but I'm not adamant about it.

Starfleet command is absolutely thrilling. For free, you can get 5 Nebula Class ships, 4 Galaxy class ships or a bunch of Steamrunner class ships. Considering they are free, if they are destroyed you can get more, simply at the cost of time, it also is a necessity in multi-player games where you can not simply turtle against the AI. For the other races are much stronger in the early game than the Federation and can usually overcome your Saber class ships long before you will have researched those expensive chassis upgrades. (Especially the Duras avatar, with those upgraded birds of prey). And can provide an interim measure of survival until you can access the advanced ships, also unless in the very late game, it is unlikely you are going to have 9 fleets comprised entirely of the Defiant, Sovereign and Remore classes (All excellent federation ships), so having a fleet bolstered by Starfleet command is nice too. The special ability can be very effective, the only issue is that it is defensive rather than offensive, and many don't like to micromanage a defense within a fleet engaging the enemy.

With regards to the Ambassador class, likely added to Starfleet command or as a map object, since it is outdated and no longer produced in the Federation per the time line this mod is set in. The Nebula class ship is in my opinion fine the way it is, since we have not seen very many of its variants in recent Trek. But I wouldn't mind seeing it as an option, in a similar way to the Talon refit that the Romulans have, however I believe it is much more likely this federation lacking will be made up with in a mixed technology refit option.

And, believe me, the usefulness of Starfleet command is not just my opinion. Try playing against any one of the players who usually uses the Federation, and you will notice how effective it is.

And with regards to the Defiant class, the cloak was again only on the Defiant, which was regrettably destroyed during the Dominion War. I'm not sure if the Sao Paolo has the cloak, but in the event that it does, it's not a widespread deployment. Torpedoes would be cool as an option on the Defiant though, but they are included as a special weapon, like I said earlier.

posted on December 17th, 2007, 8:31 pm

Since I am not terribly knowledgeable...and don't have much time atm, I will just say that I have witnessed the power of Starfleet command in many a battle. Verrrrrry irritating to have your stupid romulan fleet nearly crushing his base only to run out of resources and see that he is able to pump out free ships that gradually wear down your forces. Aaaargh. >:(
So yes, I think the Command center is useful.

posted on December 20th, 2007, 6:46 am

[b]Right, I'll reiterate what I said before. If StarFleet Academy must remain, it should be improved. I will explain further.

While you can get free ships at the cost of credits, you can only get a limited number of those ships. In that regard, they resemble the hero ships from Armada. Rhaz, you agree the Galaxy needs a buff, and do you agree the Nebula does as well? I believe it does.

Therefore, those ships should get enhancements and the ability to construct more than a handful of them. Excelsior and Miranda Class should be included also, or implemented into the shipyard queue.

Fleet Ops is set in post nemesis tense, but Galaxy and Excelsiors were still being built at Utopia Planetia shipyards, Mars in Voyager "Relativity". In "End Game" we also saw Galaxy, Excelsior, and Miranda Class ships. I believe by 2380, these ships form the backbone of StarFleet. They should as well in Fleet Ops making it practical to play the Feds. It's too hard to hold off the other empires with Sabres while conducting research.

It's true the Defiant may have been the only ship of her class with a cloak, but in the interest of strategy it would be an excellent addition to the game.[/b]

posted on December 20th, 2007, 7:26 am

First of all, I would like to commend the FO team on this outstanding modification. I never thought Armada II could be taken to this level; Birth of the Federation should have been this way. I can't wait unitl the full release. I've always wanted to see who would win in a war: The Borg vs. The Dominion

Of course with every modification, there is room for improvement. Therefore I've created a list of improvements that should be considered for the full release.

1) Outpost Weapons-Strength + Rate of Fire: Outpost weapons much too weak. These should definately be increased to hold off maurading fleets while your fleet is fighting elsewhere.

2) Resource management: A single frieghter costs more than the amount of resources it can carry. It also takes a large number of freighters(12+) to obtain enough income to support a sizeable fleet, and conduct research. Mining freighters should cost less and carry more cargo.

3) StarFleet Command + Credits: These items are utterly useless. Save credits for building ships from the shipyards, and use resources for constructing them over StarFleet Command.

*The number of special ships is severely limited, and you can construct equal or better ships from the yards. This system should be scrapped, but certainly improved if it must remain. For example,  one could hail a fleet of 5-6 ships to warp in at the cost of credits. Have the warp in time set to 30 seconds. Remember the 6 starships that came to defend DS9 in Way of the Warrior?

4) Starships: Most ships should come equipped with torpedoes. It's tedious paying attention to cruiser classes like the Intrepid, clicking away on a Tri-Cobalt icon. The crew counts should also be increased according to the canon stats. Ex. Galaxy should have 1012 crew. It's frustrating to have your Jem Hadar battlecruiser crumble in battle because she's undercrewed.

Galaxy Class: This ship is underpowered as a battleship. It should be stronger than Defiant and Excelsior II, but weaker than Sovereign. A Dominion War Galaxy should also be available. They should also be given multi-target torpedoes like the one's seen in "Yesterday's Enterprise". The special defense weapon is weak. Same with the Akira.

Defiant Class: This vessel should be equipped with a cloak and quantum torpedoes.

Nebula Class: This vessel should come in two versions, Torpedo Platform and Sensor Variant(Phoenix).

Ambassador Class: Where is the Ambassador Class?

Mediterranean Class: This ship is almost as big as the outpost! Could use a scale adjustment.

6) The Cardassian Union should be included, or at least come as part of the Dominion

6.) There has been talk of a Cardassian Avatar (although that would make very little sense), for the dominion. But you have to remember that cannocally this is set after Nemisis, and the Cardassian Union is in shambles at this time.

Mediterranean Class: Interesting, might be worth looking into.

Ambassador Class: Wouldn't make sense as a buildable object, the Ambassador was a predecessor to the Galaxy, and most were recorded destroyed during the dominion war. Her presence as a buildable ship would not make much sense. I hear that she is a map unit however.

Nebula Class: I've always thought the pulse phaser a bit out of place for the ship, and that she should assume the role the remoore class plays, but those are my personal thoughts.

Defiant Class: Federation is banned from having cloaked ships (Treaty of Algernon) the actual defiant (NX-74205) is the only exception. This is a game play balancer as well, as the races that do cloak rely on that ability. The quantums are represented in the special weapon.

Galaxy Class: Its a free ship, not much to complain about there. Any more overpowered and you suffer from spamming tactics (something all RTS's must avoid at all cost)

4.) Balance issue again, set AI to autofire should get rid of your second problem (its target prioritization is generally ok)

3.) Free Ships, needs to be limited (see steamrunner spam I've seen it done within the 10 credit limit). The balance system works quite well for the federation. If it were any more powerful the already efficient Starfleet command based strategy would get out of control. This has been thoroughly beta tested.

2.) Interesting. Might be worth looking into Doca/Optec can give you more on that.

1.) Already being addressed for v3.0

posted on December 20th, 2007, 8:14 am

[color=red][b]

Defiant Class: Federation is banned from having cloaked ships (Treaty of Algernon) the actual defiant (NX-74205) is the only exception. This is a game play balancer as well, as the races that do cloak rely on that ability. The quantums are represented in the special weapon.

Ah, Fullphaser, you reminded me of something. Speaking of balance, have you noticed that the Defiant also lacks maneuverability? They made the Defiant the Buick GNX of StarFleet. Lots of muscle that just goes straight. It definitely needs a physics update.[/b][/color]

posted on December 20th, 2007, 8:35 am

My eyes hurt...   

Well, plz all stay nice to each other or I have to lock this thread.

posted on December 20th, 2007, 3:20 pm

Red
Orange
Purple
Green
Yellow
Blue

This is fun!!!!! 

posted on December 20th, 2007, 4:19 pm

With the starfleet command, I do agree the galaxy should be just a bit tougher to destroy, but I would actually suggest a cooldown time for each ship when you build it at command, say 5 min, so you can't keep pumping them out and sending them to the enemy in an unending stream.

posted on December 20th, 2007, 5:14 pm

[color=red][b]
Ah, Fullphaser, you reminded me of something. Speaking of balance, have you noticed that the Defiant also lacks maneuverability? They made the Defiant the Buick GNX of StarFleet. Lots of muscle that just goes straight. It definitely needs a physics update.[/b][/color]

Thats defiantly an issue for Doca or Optec, we can't even introduce a functioning MVAM without getting whined at by those calling foul for source code tampering.

posted on December 21st, 2007, 3:16 pm

you could simply have the defiant use the destroyer physics files, atm it uses the medium sized ship physics.

posted on December 22nd, 2007, 2:45 am

Are you kidding?  The Defiant flew around like a piece of paper in a hurricane!  No way medium ship physics can cut it.

posted on December 22nd, 2007, 5:32 am

I also wish to keep the game multiplayer compatible.