Dominion Pure tech - worth it?
posted on January 5th, 2009, 8:57 pm
Last edited by Anonymous on January 5th, 2009, 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
posted on January 5th, 2009, 9:25 pm
if you remember in ds9 the cardassians broke away from the dominion and for that the female changling ordered there exstermination. In the fleetops timeline the cardassians are a independant race still recovering from the devistation that has occured on cardassia. So there would be no point in having the cardassians as a avatar for the dominion and i believe they are being done as a npc race in fleetops anways. Am i correct in that Optec, Doca? 
posted on January 5th, 2009, 10:20 pm
posted on January 5th, 2009, 11:03 pm
Yeah the Cardies are not an option as they are not allies with the Dominion any more, but as Optec said in another thread other races, such as the Son'a, are also allied with the Dominion so they are the next candidates for an avatar.
About the puretech avatar. I actually prefer to play as puretech for a very simple reason: construction time bonus on the small yard and the higher stats of the V-13 and the B-5. Not to mention it has some nice units in the sensor station (whose sensor range should increase IMO! but thats for another discussion) and the Defender. The sensor station comes in mighty handy in multiplayer where you can basically eliminate the threat of cloak from your base in 1 swoop plus it has nice abilities. The Defender is a nice ship, quite strong on the attack, but its only problem is that it costs credits, so I rather build the Dreadnought. If you try defending something, the defender is the ship for you though
Puretechs' third bonus, the reduced credit cost of the Hyperspace Arty is useless though, but only because the Arty is quite useless and is a waste of credits IMO (but hopefully that will change
)
The Breen also offer some good bonuses, mainly the new engine upgrade, the reduced cost for system upgrades and increased dam for tetrion torpedos. Those are some nice bonuses, but for me puretech ones are better simply because of the units. With the breen you get the breen cruiser which is a nice ship, but a better alternative is the T-15 which does cost a bit more, but it also much more powerful. The the Breen battleship. Its a great ship with long range and a good special weapon, but overpriced IMO. With a combination of other ships awailable you get a fleet with similar capabilities but cheaper and much faster. Thats just the way I see it though and I can imagine The Breen being a better avatar for some
About the puretech avatar. I actually prefer to play as puretech for a very simple reason: construction time bonus on the small yard and the higher stats of the V-13 and the B-5. Not to mention it has some nice units in the sensor station (whose sensor range should increase IMO! but thats for another discussion) and the Defender. The sensor station comes in mighty handy in multiplayer where you can basically eliminate the threat of cloak from your base in 1 swoop plus it has nice abilities. The Defender is a nice ship, quite strong on the attack, but its only problem is that it costs credits, so I rather build the Dreadnought. If you try defending something, the defender is the ship for you though
Puretechs' third bonus, the reduced credit cost of the Hyperspace Arty is useless though, but only because the Arty is quite useless and is a waste of credits IMO (but hopefully that will change
)The Breen also offer some good bonuses, mainly the new engine upgrade, the reduced cost for system upgrades and increased dam for tetrion torpedos. Those are some nice bonuses, but for me puretech ones are better simply because of the units. With the breen you get the breen cruiser which is a nice ship, but a better alternative is the T-15 which does cost a bit more, but it also much more powerful. The the Breen battleship. Its a great ship with long range and a good special weapon, but overpriced IMO. With a combination of other ships awailable you get a fleet with similar capabilities but cheaper and much faster. Thats just the way I see it though and I can imagine The Breen being a better avatar for some
posted on January 6th, 2009, 4:36 am
Last edited by Anonymous on January 6th, 2009, 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
-=B!G=-The Black Baron wrote:Yeah the Cardies are not an option as they are not allies with the Dominion any more, but as Optec said in another thread other races, such as the Son'a, are also allied with the Dominion so they are the next candidates for an avatar.
About the puretech avatar. I actually prefer to play as puretech for a very simple reason: construction time bonus on the small yard and the higher stats of the V-13 and the B-5. Not to mention it has some nice units in the sensor station (whose sensor range should increase IMO! but thats for another discussion) and the Defender. The sensor station comes in mighty handy in multiplayer where you can basically eliminate the threat of cloak from your base in 1 swoop plus it has nice abilities. The Defender is a nice ship, quite strong on the attack, but its only problem is that it costs credits, so I rather build the Dreadnought. If you try defending something, the defender is the ship for you though
Puretechs' third bonus, the reduced credit cost of the Hyperspace Arty is useless though, but only because the Arty is quite useless and is a waste of credits IMO (but hopefully that will change
The Breen also offer some good bonuses, mainly the new engine upgrade, the reduced cost for system upgrades and increased dam for tetrion torpedos. Those are some nice bonuses, but for me puretech ones are better simply because of the units. With the breen you get the breen cruiser which is a nice ship, but a better alternative is the T-15 which does cost a bit more, but it also much more powerful. The the Breen battleship. Its a great ship with long range and a good special weapon, but overpriced IMO. With a combination of other ships awailable you get a fleet with similar capabilities but cheaper and much faster. Thats just the way I see it though and I can imagine The Breen being a better avatar for some
I see your side of things. I agree that pure tech has some interesting tactical pluses - but these pluses can easily be included by our skilled developers in a cardie avatar.
the t-15 maybe more powerful, but would it be better (eye candy and playing fun) in your opinion than a cardie galor with a little more power.
As regards the timeline issue - we have timeline violations in the game as is.
1. how would the dominion ever be warring or hostile now that Odo is part of the great link.
2. the Borg were unheard of after Janeway's virus that brought chaos to order. The rest of what we see in FO is an omission of that aspect of the Borg's fate.
3. Doms were expelled from the alpha quadrant. A Breen alliance would be just as unimaginable as the Cardie alliance.
4. If cardies are ot be NP as indicated by Optec and DOca, it would imply the fastest recovery in the history of the galaxy, not to mention reproduction and accelerated growth like bunnies. Sure ..
Hey, all for we know the female changeling made restitution, and with odo's pesuasion the dominion helped Cardassia rebuild, and cloned all those who were killed.
But jokes aside, I get where you're coming from.
Was just hoping we could throw some ideas out there to see if we could come up with a way to get the cardies included while respecting the timeline -- brainstorming as it were, instead of simply shutting out the idea
For example - the cardie alliance would be plausible if a group or a faction of cardies felt the homeworld had abandoned the militaristic ideals which had brought it to power. The federation's goody goody terms and conditions have made it mandatory to accept the loss of bajor and the border systems. Klingons have annexed sectors of cardassian space.
The faction sees the Dominion as Cardassia's only true allies. If not for the impatience and subsequent betrayal of Damar the cardies would have won the war. Disillusioned with the way things are on cardassia the small faction rejoin the Dominion. seeing this as an opportunity to reenter the Alpha quadrant the Doms enter under the pretext of rebuilding. Restitution. Supply ships at first only with a single starbase, and from there the expansion and subsequent conflict.
Hey, if the mods were able to edit the existing armada missions, this could be a cardie faction side campaign.. with a few refinements to the storyline of course.
or for example - if the player as feds controls all 3 alpha quadrant construction ships - for all 3 mixed techs such as fed+kling+rom (since these 3 powers together took cardassia prime). It could allow or unlock the building of galors and keldons with certain specific tactical bonuses and abilities - not making them anything to compare with actual battleships like tavs, or cubes or dom b'ships of course. But some tactical pluses which would be of use in a skirmish, like a sensor ghost for galors which would prevent enemy ships from hitting allied ships for a specific time (maybe as long as special energy lasted) - remember soldiers of the empire, the klingons were mentioned cardassian cunning and how they made the klings chase sensor ghosts during the conflict. Keldons could have a biogenic weapon that takes out a % of the crew of the enemy ship (a much weaker version of what the scimitar had)- think TNG chain of command.
so a cardies being playable isnt all that implausible. at least not more so than the anachronisms mentioned above
posted on January 6th, 2009, 7:48 am
I see what you mean and I know that if they wanted too they could add them as an avatar quite easily. But all the reactions I remember seeing from the team I think they wont be in as a playable race
Nice ideas though.
While I also agree with you that with Odo the Dominion should be a little "nicer" now, they would still defend themselves from invasion. So one can imagine that the Borg want to Assimilate/Destroy them and they are just fighting back
And the Borg. Well its true they werent heared off after the virus, but you have to ask yourself where would they be mentioned? There wasnt any series or movies that could include them after the incident so we really dont know what happened to them. Not to mention that the Queen had already died twice in the past and she always returned
Nice ideas though.
While I also agree with you that with Odo the Dominion should be a little "nicer" now, they would still defend themselves from invasion. So one can imagine that the Borg want to Assimilate/Destroy them and they are just fighting back
And the Borg. Well its true they werent heared off after the virus, but you have to ask yourself where would they be mentioned? There wasnt any series or movies that could include them after the incident so we really dont know what happened to them. Not to mention that the Queen had already died twice in the past and she always returned
posted on January 6th, 2009, 8:29 am
Last edited by KL0K on January 6th, 2009, 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
posted on January 6th, 2009, 9:32 am
posted on January 6th, 2009, 10:48 am
posted on January 6th, 2009, 11:24 am
posted on January 6th, 2009, 11:57 am
posted on January 6th, 2009, 1:32 pm
posted on January 6th, 2009, 4:26 pm
posted on January 6th, 2009, 4:28 pm
KL0K wrote:while i love the dominion faction overall, i would have done the avatars completly different.
the dominion pure tech avatar changes:
1. instead of the (mostly useless) hyperspace artillery -> the big dreadnought of the mixed tech yard -> it costs credits, its powerful as hell -> its a beast and definitly worth the credits. to bad its just accessible with an ally or if you ever get a chance to capture a con ship.
2. from the bugship to the first cruiser -> alot cheaper and alot faster to build, so you can spam fleets faster then the feds hard AI right now.
3, prototype system - overhaul. instead of blocking the regular yard, build another big experimental yard, where all the prototypes come out, after researching. and research itself split in 3 blocks (fighter&frigates, cruisers&dreadnoughts, battle&flagships), and after researching the first of the 3 blocks researching (or directly building) the prototypes of these classes.
i think this will add a bit more of a "pure dominion" and "pure tech" feel of it.
the second avatar (interim name: ) "alliances"
1. the breen
a) -> accessible through building a breen outpost and yard (take the nehalims breen-npc mappacks as an example - i found the work in it really impressive).
b) -> shipwise: taking the pulse disruptor off the breen cruiser. it looks weird. instead adding another torpedo launcher, maybe shieldbreaking, shield collapsing, or like the polaron with a random shutdown of a system or a shield draining effect like the plasma torp of the roms. i dunno, but one of that suits them better and would make them even deadlier (maybe expensive to balance things out? i dunno)
2. the cardies & son'a
a) -> accessible like the breen through another but small outpost, for each one of them, (to represent the economical and military problems they went through) and another yard.
b) shipwise: galor, keldon - and maybe for lategame the hutet (noncanon ship and seen in the dominion wars pc-game - a beast like the dominion dreadnought)? and the son'a ships seen in armada 1.
Cool ideas
posted on January 7th, 2009, 3:25 am
Last edited by KL0K on January 7th, 2009, 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Optec wrote:yep we already had some similar ideas to give each alliance-race its own native-looking yard (wouldn't be that hard as we have to make a yard for their major-np appearance either way), but balancing wise that would be a little unfair to let a player build a new yard just for 2 vessels. therefore the Breen have been integrated in the normal yards (in Fleet Operations timeline there are larger dominion yards in Breen space either way so that would fit. i think something like that has even been mentioned in DS9). The next Alliance race will probably get its own yard, but the yard will then also serve as some special building with a few specials, not just a yard and thats it.
hm, i dont really think it would be unfair. if you take into account, that a dominion player usually builds at least 2 yards anyways (, cause ship production takes some time), i wouldnt mind another yard for the breen/cardie/whateverrace ships, since their ships production-time is a bit longer then, lets say the bugships or bomber ones, and you can build dom-ships in the dominion yard without interfering the buildqueue.
and i dont think its really balancing issue, since the romulans for example need a huge amount for all the research or the klingons for all the yards and techbuildings. but sure, it would need some testing, to proof the theory ingame.
@serpicus: thanks
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