Dominion Prototypes

posted on February 24th, 2011, 5:36 pm

I love the proto system, its interesting and different, and variety is great.

Problem is I find it weird to have a proto just lay around your base never doing anything ever.

So I got some ideas.

[align=center]Idea 1: Upgrade to Production Version[/align]

The thing with protos is that once its done you have to keep it to be able to add that ship to the queue. I personally think that this is silly, as once you build the proto and get the skill required to build more of them, you dont store that info on the proto, and should be able to make more without the proto. but this could unbalance things if the proto simply counted as a ship for all intents and purposes, so i think for balancing reasons the protos should stay as a requirement to build production versions.

Maybe once you get the tech lab up, protos could get a refit option, to upgrade them to standard production versions. That way you dont get a boost early on. Maybe make the tech lab cost very slightly more.

The excelsior is an example, the proto became production when bugs were fixed.

[align=center]Idea 2: A vastly different approach[/align]

I find it odd that the enemy can see which of your ships is the proto. So under this idea the enemy wouldnt be able to tell which ship is the proto. the proto would still function as a requirement for building normal ships. But the enemy would have to figure out which is the proto. So if u ran in early with your proto and were unlucky enough to lose it, then you lost it. if u try keep it safe at the back of your fleet, the enemy might notice and go after it.

The other crazier part of this idea is that as the proto can rank up, and when it ranks up, all ships of the class get a boost (told you it was crazy )

basically as the proto flies around and gets ranks, the scientists onboard learn about how the ship class can be improved. the defiant had this, sisko flew the prototype into battle a lot, and learned how to improve the class, and nog taught that to the valiant redshirts. the boosts wouldnt be game changing, just a little bit of a boost. having your proto out in battles to get ranks will risk losing it. balancing this would be a nightmare lol.

posted on February 24th, 2011, 6:02 pm

They're both great ideas that would be fun to play, group upgrades with massive risk/reward especially. but i've got to defend the current system:

I love this achillies heel of the dominion - you can raid the main base sacrificing a spearhead. but forcing a human player to be much more careful with thier exsting fleet. maybe making them back off for a bit or take them out of the game entirly with a well coordinated attack on thier second base or mining operations.
In general it's good that opting for a new ship class ties up your yards and extra resources. Do I need to be ready with this counter or do I need more of that?

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on February 24th, 2011, 6:18 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on February 24th, 2011, 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think it's just entirely silly that they can't build (or queue rather) without the proto, but can have a full fleet of normal ships.

A better approach imo would be to have a combined requirement of a research and a proto. The research would unlock the prototype. To balance this out, research costs would be little and research time would be short. Some Further balancing out the costs would be a second small yard ship not needing a proto (maybe S2.)

As for trying to stop the Dominion production, I think that maybe the build time and supply costs could be increased by losing a proto, but with more ships of that type on the field, the increase would be less. If no ships or protos of that type exist, you need a new proto. If only one non-proto exists and no proto exists, then build time is twice normal and supply cost goes up by 50%.
(explanation is that the Dominion doesn't store ship design records, to avoid the enemy from getting their hands on the designs, plus the ships are each changed slightly.)

I like the refit idea, as long as the refitted ship still acts as a proto for production (and has the blue effect so you know which is which, but the enemy can no longer see the blue.)

I also like the enemy not seeing which one is the proto, but I think that this should only happen for refitted protos (normal protos lack the specials, so they'll stick out.)

posted on February 24th, 2011, 6:28 pm

I like the refit idea, as long as the refitted ship still acts as a proto for production (and has the blue effect so you know which is which, but the enemy can no longer see the blue.)

thats exactly what im suggesting

posted on February 24th, 2011, 6:31 pm

They enemy could still figure out which is the prototype by the lack of special weapon icons, so you'd have to do something about those before that becomes useful.

posted on February 24th, 2011, 6:34 pm

I see I didn't make it clear enuff: ("normal protos lack the specials..."), as in, the refitted ones will have the specials.

posted on February 24th, 2011, 6:56 pm

I don't know about upgrading prototypes...the prototype system exists to encourage the dominion to build large numbers of ships, giving individual ships special stats is the exact opposite of this.

I do really like the idea of building multiple prototypes, and having a cost or build time reduction for ships based on the number of prototypes you own.  It's like having ship production upgrades instead of attack/defense upgrades.

posted on February 24th, 2011, 8:11 pm

Though I do like the current system, Nebula_Class_ftw has some good ideas that would be interesting to see played out.  Though I think the multi-proto equals production reduction cost and increase build speed would have to have a cap so as to not make it unbalanced.  Perhaps three protos max build speed and reduction cost.  Or once you get three protos out, then the first reduction cost and build speed increase goes into effect.  That might help if it can be designed by something like, three, six, eight (cap limit here) on how many protos are fielded and when the benefit kicks in/gets capped off.

posted on February 25th, 2011, 12:53 am

Hmmm... Im a fan of the current system aswell. However the logic behind it is illogical.

Perhaps there could be a way to retain the Proto system and still add in the possibility to retain vessels permanently.

Heres my thoughts: have a research that applies to each prototype at the tech lab. An example would be this:

I build my s2 proto, and go hard into mainline s2's, after my tech lab is up I have the option to research "Mainline S2" for a modest amount of di and tri. This would lock the main S2 into a production vessel circumventing the need for the proto. However doing this could get costly if your enemy counters you. so you have the option to lock in that vessel or save the resources for use on another proto. Depending on the route chosen enemy players could still attack protos to affect the dominion players.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on February 25th, 2011, 2:01 am

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on February 25th, 2011, 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

My idea was actually about having just one proto, but with existing non-proto ships keeping production from becoming super-expensive from losing just the one proto (the time/cost increases I'm thinking of would be pretty steep.) Costs and build time would not go below normal, only above if you don't keep enuff ships or a proto out.

I do like the multiple proto idea however. Perhaps only having one proto wouldn't be enuff to keep the cost/build time increases down, with a limit of three protos (one extra for a sort of security net.)