Dominion A-20 Ram adjustments

posted on July 30th, 2009, 7:03 pm

We all do agree that the dominion A-20 ramming ability can be a bit overwhelming for players given the ship's low costs and quicker production rate.

I also remember the way certain players griped when I rammed their construction ships while building mining/facilities using one A20 back in May.

But at the end of the day the style of the jem A-20 is the quintessential dominion style.

We should also note that the A-20 in of itself does not do much as a stand alone fighter when engaging ships such as sabres, brels, rhienns and certainly borg scubes.
With stats of offense 14 and defense 11, the dominon A-20 becomes just another early game ships if the ram is nerfed.
Given its reduced range and weaker shields it is rhienn cannon fodder before it even gets in range.
With sabres and early fed warp in, the feds can easily tear away at Dominion early game.
With Klings and their superior firepower+cloaking devices, the brels (particularly taqroja) will annihilate the A-20.

the leaves the ram as an essential part of the mix.



However, it also does not make sense for a single ship such as the A-20 to be able to take out vessels like the generix refit etc fresh out of the yards.

To that extent I would request that the a-20 have a gradually increasing ram strength, that goes up with rank. The increase here does not imply a weak ram at the outset, rather weak against ship size.
The discrimination of ship size for ram effect be akin to the discrimination in torpedo targeting.

In effect, when a Dominion A-20 is fresh out the yard, it can destroy a ship like the rhienn or brel with a single ram.
But does less damage to a construction ship or miner, less damage still to a support cruiser, and less still to a battlecruiser etc.

As the Dominion A-20 increases in rank, in addition to its stats going up, it does increased damage to the higher classes increasing proportionately with each rank advancement that a ram from a double gold ship can destroy a vorcha (as int eh show) or galaxy.

Vessels like the Sov and Negh however will only be destroyed by a veteran ram.

This would bring rank advancement of the A-20 in line with the dominon doctrine, where in effect they are advancing in rank to die for the Dominion.

posted on July 30th, 2009, 8:43 pm

I think the Devs have announced that the A-20 is getting redone (I could be mistaken) and that increasing ranks will do increasing collision damage . I like your suggestion about veteran rank A-20's doing that much damage. Would make a great deal of sense 

With Klings and their superior firepower+cloaking devices, the brels (particularly taqroja) will annihilate the A-20.

I disagree with this honestly: the speed of the Klingon B'rels is what makes the difference... but the short range often makes the B'rels merely cannon fodder with Puretech's faster construction at least--as long as you keep the Bugs running of course.

But does less damage to a construction ship or miner, less damage still to a support cruiser, and less still to a battlecruiser etc.

Indeed. I would even go so far as to say that it should never one hit kill a miner or construction ship (maybe 2 hit a miner and 3 hit a construction) and should not 1 hit kill most cruisers either... or 2 hit kill a Norexan *facepalm*. The fact that you can send these vessels early in game to completely wipe out any construction ship and mining operations is quite terrifying.

posted on July 30th, 2009, 9:10 pm

i still dont get how the fed sabers are good at all............. they suck

itd be nice if there was a 30 percent chance the ram would miss, and somtimes it should compleatly cripple the ship, instead of just sheild damage

posted on July 30th, 2009, 9:16 pm

i still dont get how the fed sabers are good at all............. they suck

itd be nice if there was a 30 percent chance the ram would miss, and somtimes it should compleatly cripple the ship, instead of just sheild damage

I'd suggest downloading the newest version of FO before commenting honestly 

The collision ability of the Attack Destroyer will 1 hit kill a Galaxy--it does a crud load of hull damage now.

posted on July 30th, 2009, 9:21 pm

As the bugs are not likly to rank up, they should geh a huge damage boost even in the lower stages of skill. The unranked ship shall not be able to kill a galaxy IMO

posted on July 31st, 2009, 12:28 am

I think collision damage should increase as health decreases, not as it ranks up.

posted on July 31st, 2009, 12:34 am

I think collision damage should increase as health decreases, not as it ranks up.

That was originally what I was thinking too, as it would cause you to pay more attention to what ships are getting damaged etc. However, when a ship ranks up, maybe the Jem'Hadar in command gains more experience as to what components of the enemy ship are vital soooo... personally I still like both methods

[Tyler]

posted on July 31st, 2009, 12:38 am

Last edited by Tyler on July 31st, 2009, 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Maybe have both in, with one more damaging than the other? After all, no matter how experienced you are, your still going to have trouble finding the weak point on a Class you don't know about.

posted on July 31st, 2009, 4:25 am

too add i think the ram should have a chance to miss small targets (kinda simulating the ability of small targets to outmaneuver the incoming ship)

[shadow651]

posted on July 31st, 2009, 4:42 am

Last edited by shadow651 on July 31st, 2009, 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think collision damage should increase as health decreases, not as it ranks up.

That is a good idea. But, I think that would be imposible to program.

as far as i understand it when a ship ranks up it is replaced by a new Model (without the players knowlage) with the previous vessles status copyed on to the new ship (shild, hull, sytems and crew levels). so, the new ship could be equiped with a more powerfull ram special ablility. But, as heath decreases I don't think there is a way for the program to know to change the ram ablility to a more powerfull one.  

too add i think the ram should have a chance to miss small targets (kinda simulating the ability of small targets to outmaneuver the incoming ship)

I agree good idea! but what happens to the A-20 when it misses?

[DOCa Cola]

posted on July 31st, 2009, 8:02 am

Last edited by DOCa Cola on July 31st, 2009, 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

That is a good idea. But, I think that would be imposible to program.

actually, it would be doable...
i think we already implemented improved damage values for higher ranks in the current dev version, a combination of both features would be possible without any problem. the 'negative-health-damage' effect could be removed with higher ranks for example.
i'll discuss that with optec, it's a very interesting idea

posted on July 31st, 2009, 8:53 am

Why not just activate ram after a certain amount of damage is done?

posted on July 31st, 2009, 8:56 am

feel free to discuss that

posted on July 31st, 2009, 11:24 am

that could lead to exlpoits like shooting on your own vessels, something we want to avoid.

collision scaling with damage received sounds interessting, i think that would make a nice addition, in combination with scaling by rank (the maximum damage could scale with each rank, for example)

posted on July 31st, 2009, 11:44 am

But surely if you are worried about that and you implement damage recieved scaling, you could still shoot your own bug just before you want to ram to increase the damage?