Creating Random Maps

posted on November 5th, 2010, 5:08 pm

Would it be possible to put the random map feature back into fleet-ops?  It make the games more interesting when you don't know what's going to be where.  And the map is never the same twice.

posted on November 5th, 2010, 5:15 pm

i like the idea of random maps, although it would be very difficult to get interesting maps that are balanced.

posted on November 5th, 2010, 5:17 pm

It would be realistic.

posted on November 5th, 2010, 5:27 pm

It would be realistic.

lol thats the second time uve responded with that exact phrase to one of my posts.

here i wasnt criticising your idea, many people have had it before, its not a bad idea.

im saying its probably gonna remain an idea as its gonna be difficult to get it right.

posted on November 5th, 2010, 5:33 pm

Why would it be so dificult to get it "right"?

posted on November 5th, 2010, 5:34 pm

Well with the right formula it should be possible to make the map balanced...we just need to find out what characteristics influence balance...

posted on November 5th, 2010, 5:48 pm

this "right formula" is difficult to find. i mean the algorithm would need to place moons at balanced distances, not place mutara nebulae in ways that give advantages etc etc

so if you play it safe the random map generator will create very similar maps which play similarly.

if u dont play it safe you may end up with one starting position at a distinct advantage.

posted on November 5th, 2010, 6:07 pm

Not to mention determining where blocking triggers and associated map objects end up.

posted on November 5th, 2010, 6:13 pm

Why not just put in the stock asteroid objects and nebulae?  They already have built in block triggers.  Well, the asteroids do anyways.

posted on November 5th, 2010, 6:20 pm

I don't believe those work anymore.

posted on November 5th, 2010, 7:00 pm

There are 2 two ways the devs could handle this.

1) Only include maps that are fairly well balanced for all sides and then select a map from a subset of those maps which have the same number of players.  Finding enough "balanced" maps is going to be a difficult task... although not impossible.

2) Create truly random maps.  Either truly random which means some teams are going to get much better starts that others or symmetrical based on the number of players... which i presume is going to require not only lots of code to work this out for odd numbers of players (2,4,8 should be not too difficult though) but also to make sure the maps that are generated are playable.  eg: no players blocked in by asteroid fields, equal numbers of moons per player, at least for starting with, etc.

[Megadroid]

posted on November 5th, 2010, 7:58 pm

Last edited by Megadroid on November 5th, 2010, 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I spent about 20 minutes and knocked out an incredibly simple 1v1 15k random map generator using MMM. Sometimes you get crazy results, and it really loves nebulas. Also only works in single player, unfortunately.

Edit - err, just played with myself (ha ha) and it seemed to work on multiplayer. Which is odd, since as far as I know MMM doesn't work on multiplayer. I'm confused.

A further edit - I guess it was because it was local... more thinking required.

Attachments

posted on November 5th, 2010, 9:16 pm

Most interesting - seems like the blocking triggers would really need some more work 

posted on November 5th, 2010, 9:34 pm

Well, in real life I'm sure that players would start in the most suitable locations.  And, well, I don't think anyone would be dumb enough to try to build a starbase inside a damaging nebula.  So a bit of structure would be required to make simulate players choosing suitable starting locations.  Most likely in relation to resources, asteroid fields, and nebulae.  I think that's as random as you can get.

posted on November 5th, 2010, 10:12 pm

So after some testing with Dominus, I can safely say multiplayer works. A few issues need ironing out, but yes - success!