Constructing Alien Techtree

posted on September 27th, 2010, 12:46 pm

The Borg won't build other races designs.  They will build their own designs though.  Anything they assimilate will be dismantled, analyzed, and integrated into their own systems.  The only thing that the Borg didn't dismantle was Voyager.  And they just added some armor to the vessel during the Species-8472/Borg wars.  And if I remember correctly, they still didn't get the nanoprobes.

The assimilation beam should be placed back in.  I'm not all that for the assimilation station anymore.  It takes too long to gain assimilated tech with that building.  I would also like it to take a few seconds longer for a cube to gain assimilated weapons.

I have a few ideas on mixed-tech modules for cubes that enhance the Borg weapons.  I haven't had time to make them yet though to show what I mean.

posted on September 27th, 2010, 1:20 pm

assimilation will see a major revamp soon[sup]TM[/sup]
But we are not fans of the tech assimilation beam

posted on September 27th, 2010, 2:44 pm

But I ask myself, why there are 3 kinds of deviants or K'vorts out there. I think, it would be nice to combine it in a single ship.
This mixed tech is not a real boon, its more work for the player with sometimes worser stats then before.

Not real tech assimilation, but... refit for the races and something neat for the borg. (Like "collective framework integration" for assimilated ships)

I know that it would double the odf-files, if every assimilated ship gets a borg derivate, but it might be worth it.

Also the borg need a ranking up-system of some kind. (Count kills, get a new module or something like that)

posted on September 27th, 2010, 2:56 pm

But I ask myself, why there are 3 kinds of deviants or K'vorts out there. I think, it would be nice to combine it in a single ship.
This mixed tech is not a real boon, its more work for the player with sometimes worser stats then before.

That would be the same as getting Romulan and Klingon tech by taking a Romulan constructor... they are to compliment the main fleet, not replace it.

posted on September 27th, 2010, 3:23 pm

Thats correct, but why building EXTRA ships, wouldnt it be enough, to integrate the new tech into the existing one?

If you build an additional ship with a special ability, or integrate it into the existing one makes no difference.

2 scenarios:
- I have two Excelsior II - one with Mayson boon, one with rommie boon.

I've send a certain amount of time and resources to build them.

- I have an Excel II with both boons and a second ship, that is "anything" but not excel II, but took the same time and ressources to build it, like the rommie excel II.

Result: I have in both cases two ships, spend the same time and the same resources. But in case one, I have two Excel, in case two, I have the chance to build two diff. ships. I would do case 2, because I can combine a shorty and a longie with that tactic and still have all abilities.

You get a much better tactical option out of case 2.

[Tyler]

posted on September 27th, 2010, 3:34 pm

Last edited by Tyler on September 27th, 2010, 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It's either refitted in 1 direction or refitted in another, it can't be both. It's the same as the Rhienn or avatar units; you pick 1 set of bonuses to get. Game balance reigns supreme.

The devs said they're not combining mixed-tech with avatar bonuses before.

posted on September 27th, 2010, 3:43 pm

[Optec]

posted on September 27th, 2010, 3:53 pm

Last edited by Optec on September 27th, 2010, 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yep, i can only second tyler. Its the same reason why mixed-tech bonuses do not stack with avatar bonuses.

The explanation is quite simple: Many starship characteristics do not scale in a linear pattern. lets do a simple example to get you an image of what i'm talking about

we have a starship A with 100 Hitpoints and 10 damage per second and two starships B1 and B2 with 50 hitpoints and 5 damage per second. while that seems completely fair, starship A would still win in a battle, as it destroyes B1 after 5 seconds and by doing so reduces the incoming damage per second.

If multiple bonuses are combined into a single unit it gets more powerful then the same bonuses split on several units. And for balancing reasons we need a certain degree of control over the seperate characteristics.

But there is also a quite logical lore-explanation. Remember how hard it was for Starfleet to keep Deep Space Nine running? now consider there would have been 2 or three completely different alien systems on the same unit. Those poor engineers!

posted on September 27th, 2010, 11:40 pm

Only the Borg can do that stuff.  It's their greatest power, really.  Most of their systems are alien, rapidly redesigned for seamless integration into the Collective as a whole.  The ineffecient or useless ones are just put into data storage, while the rest are on flying geometric slaughterboats.

I have thought of one thing that could make Borg Mixed tech more interesting to the general playerbase, though.

For every Constructor of a given race that you successfully 'research' (like the old recycling center...take her apart) you get a 1% boost in the appropriate area.  Fed - Defense.  Klingon - Offense.  Romulan - System.  Dominion - Supply production rate, or Sensor range.

But it has to be recycled at one of the mixed tech buildings for it's race, so it's not free in the first place.  The borg get something kinda like everyone else's research upgrades, but they do it by stealing other people's tech, taking what few tweaks they can use and putting the rest on file.

posted on October 1st, 2010, 10:49 am

Well, I can understand why two mixed tech modueles dont come into one ship, like rommie-boom+klingon-boon into one defiant, BUT I dont understand, why it cant put into an avatar ship...

There IS already the avatar bonus and integrating *additional* tech will decrease its effectiveness? Plus, you have higher costs, longer build time, a tech-research AND you have to build an additional yard.

I think it could be handled with costs and build time. Make 10% boost do 15% (factor 1,5) cost and time increase and it would be a good middleway.

Hmm, hard topic, because of balance. But ava-boon can kill mixed tech versions in some cases. Thats not good.

posted on October 1st, 2010, 12:57 pm

If the construction ship builds a research station instead of a shipyard, you could analyze the technology of the faction that owns (or owned) the construction ship you captured.  Then, once you build the appropriate ships, upgrade them with a maximum of two alien technologies with all vessels being upgradable with some sort of technology.

For the Borg, add mixed-tech modules to every vessel.  These modules will give specific bonuses based on the vessel type, and the faction of the technology.  But only limit two modules per faction until you run out of module slots.

If you assimilate a constructor from a faction with superior firing rates for specific types of weapons, you can add ONLY two mixed tech modules from that faction.  And the cube will be able to fire say 15% faster per module.  The cube has 6 module slots total, so you'd be able to have up to 4 mixed-tech installations.  3 if it's fully upgraded with mixed tech.  1 if you want to install other things.  For the Borg, it'll be trading one advantage for another advantage.

posted on October 1st, 2010, 2:54 pm

Well, for the borg there will be a whole different mixed tech system than for the other races. But I tink, that it should be possible to integrate alien tech in existing ships, even WITH avatar bonus, but balance it out with costs and build time and evtl. research for it.

We already have following factors:

- Capture an alien constructor
- Get it back safe to the base
- Invest ressources to build a yard
- Research alien technology (time)
- build an alien ship (with more time and more ressources needed)


You get:
- an inferior ship (in some cases)

THATS the problem I have with it. So to balance it out, I thought on giving existing ship models the ability to be refitted with alien-tech. But for the reason, that you have a limited loadout, a limited adaptive system and a limit on engineering, you can only put in a limited amount of alien tech into your ship.

You balance it out with costs and maybe a time period, where the ship cant move.

[Tyler]

posted on October 1st, 2010, 3:10 pm

Last edited by Tyler on October 1st, 2010, 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aside from the devs stating they won't be doing that, you're also now talking of at least 2x the number of odfs (this idea is just like Borg modules).

[quaddmgtech]

posted on October 1st, 2010, 5:15 pm

Last edited by quaddmgtech on October 1st, 2010, 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think we are all missing an important part of how the borg function, at least in canon.

Ships and technology were assimilated by the borg when there was no alternative for them, i.e. no borg vessels nearby... so for example the borg assimilated the shuttle-craft in the episode of 'Enterprise' because they needed a ship. And they assimilated the deflector of the Enterprise-E because they needed a communications array. If given the choice I believe that the borg would not use alien technology because for the most part it is inferior. So aside from raw resources, and assimilating people (which are resources to the borg) they would not build say a sovereign with graviton torpedo launchers and cutting beams. Unless it was a last ditch effort. The borg seek perfection, hence the geometric shapes they employ in their designs. I'm sure they frown deeply on how how most alpha quadrant ships are designed, and armed...

therefore if necessary I have no doubt the borg would use a fed phaser, but if given the choice between that and their own technology it's doubtful they would keep it for long.

[Tyler]

posted on October 1st, 2010, 5:23 pm

Last edited by Tyler on October 1st, 2010, 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That's the logic behind my idea of Borg mixed-tech where their tech is enhanced by other specials rather than replaced.

Except for the ship 'shape = perfection' part. The shape is simple but irrelevent to the function and the Borg don't care about looks. That is just preference like any other empire, with theirs being something simple to build.