Breen Cruiser ideas.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 8:24 pm

Since Mal wants to discuss ideas for it, I'm going to make a thread just for that.

Here's my ideas:
-Give it torps that have less chance to miss, but get bigger damage reduction when attacking small-sized units.
-Make it do higher damage to ships with higher system values (this is kind of like Mal's idea, but I like it better based on an actual value, also make it more like it's using the target's warp field.)
-Make cloak come standard, but with a second ability that makes it increase speed for a short time.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 8:41 pm

Because it's all my fault.   Hopefully new ideas will make the Breen Cruiser really cool in the redo.

I'd like to see the torpedoes do special energy draining, perhaps even increase the energy draining based on the system value (a very interesting idea by Neb ), and do more damage to support units, since we don't really have anything like that.  Basically, the more technologically advanced a ship is, the more it is affected by the breen's dampening technology.

I like the idea of the cloak becoming standard, perhaps it requires 30-40 energy instead?  I'd still like to see it be less efficient than the normal cloaking races, but more usable, especially when more cloak detection comes along.

Perhaps a new replace weapon special that makes the breen cruiser's torpedoes dampen and disable random subsystems?  There's nothing that says the Breen didn't counter the Alpha Quadrant's counter to their counter by countering it twenty years later.

Hmmm.... That's all I've got for now.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 8:44 pm

since we don't really have anything like that.

the shrike's new special is very similar, being of use only against supports.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 8:52 pm

Yeap.  I'd like to see more of that.

Perhaps the replace weapon special could do very high disabling for 12 seconds, but the ship itself does only 1/3 of it's normal damage, so it becomes more of a supporting vessel, rather than a damage dealer.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 8:55 pm

Perhaps a new replace weapon special that makes the breen cruiser's torpedoes dampen and disable random subsystems?  There's nothing that says the Breen didn't counter the Alpha Quadrant's counter to their counter by countering it twenty years later.

They already adapted. The Battleship has the Dampening Torpedo.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 8:58 pm

This isn't the "Poo poo on people's ideas" thread.  That's down the hall.

This is the "Come up with something original and clever and fun" thread. 

posted on August 20th, 2010, 9:01 pm

A 'suggest what we already have' thread? Why don't we have more of those?

posted on August 20th, 2010, 9:03 pm

I copy and paste:

One of the great advantages, is that this ship can cloak - so you can do good scouting with it AND the prototype can stay cloaked in your base, so it wont get shot down by a cloaked task force to stop you shipbuilding.

The long range MUST be outbalanced with slow speed. BUT: The dominion already got many ships that are pretty good against structures and big ships. In early game or against a fleet of destroyers, you only have your arty or fodder. And fodder is not good, because you need your ships in order to attack and defend.

So, what about this: Let the breen cruiser stay as it is but give it the ability to do tachyon scans, while it itself can cloak. Sure, the scan will cost special energy and you can only do the scan once and cloak, then it is out of energy. Also a special for deactivating engines might be good for this ship.

We pack this all together and we have: Exactly, a new support vessel. Cloak, scan and snipe ships out from afar, bombard it with torps (while a special from another support vessel MIGHT make this stand effective against destroyers and cruisers) and hold the line.

My imagination:

A breen cruiser detects with its tachyon scan a cloaked fleet of romulan ships. You want to dire on it in order to take it out. Now you set your torps on the target, fire at will and hope to snipe out the engines of one of those ships. One breen cruiser can take out one enemy destroyer with that and is a perfect expansion defender. Good against K'Vort, Rhienn and support refits. But too weak to strike effective against battleships.

I think, that sounds good - but would be massive imbalanced, if you have a mixed fleet of... for example breen cruisers and an arty ship or something like that. You can eradicate whole fleets with that, but have to look on your strategy and tactic. I think, it would be okay, if this ship can only target one enemy vessel with its tachyon device, if in range. If you have more cruisers, then you can detect more, but not the whole fleet. Maybe this balances it out.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on August 20th, 2010, 9:04 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on August 20th, 2010, 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Perhaps a new replace weapon special that makes the breen cruiser's torpedoes dampen and disable random subsystems?  There's nothing that says the Breen didn't counter the Alpha Quadrant's counter to their counter by countering it twenty years later.

I nearly posted that idea when I started this thread. Mal, it seems either you have the ability to read my mind, or we think alike.

I dislike the sudden disabling shot used in the Breen Battleship, a replaceweapon would be more like what we saw in DS9. To those who think we have this now: the Breen Battleship's special is a single shot that does the disabling, while this would make the Breen Cruiser's main armament change to be disabling but less damage dealing, similar to Veqlaragh, but not engine specific.

New Idea: Make the Breen Cruiser medium ranged, or give it a beam weapon like the Breen Battleship. Reason for this is that right now it is just like the Bomber but with some damage modifiers and a different counter passive and special weapon. I think that it should be more different, especially considering the different nature of its armament.
I would of course, want the Breen Cruiser to not be in the same role as its bigger brother, so maybe it could be a little faster too (base speed of 100.)

[Elim]

posted on August 20th, 2010, 9:07 pm

Last edited by Elim on August 20th, 2010, 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oh, at least, my suffering wasn't completely needless! Thanks Mal and Neb!  :)

I like the anti-support/anti-high system value thingy, as it is very hard to deal with lehvals and/or gen supports for dominion. No, its not impossible, but i feel a bit too easy for rumulans, as they can't do any mistake with going for them.

Edit: grammar errors of course...

posted on August 20th, 2010, 9:08 pm

breen cruiser proto cant cloak, protos never get specials of the production vessel.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 9:12 pm

Oh, my fault. Sorry.

But I like the idea to snipe... This ships should be a sniper. Cloaking, crawling around, lying in the shadows and then bite. Like the rommies - but *against* them.

So, anti-support vessel is a nice idea.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 9:16 pm

We pack this all together and we have: Exactly, a new support vessel. Cloak, scan and snipe ships out from afar, bombard it with torps (while a special from another support vessel MIGHT make this stand effective against destroyers and cruisers) and hold the line.

I like the idea that Breen ships might be support ships, with Puretech being more of an offensive force, while Breen is about the Breenships that have high system values and contribute with specials. Giving Breen a support ship besides the weak C-11 would be nice.
Only problem is that combined with anti-support it then becomes a support ship that kills other supports (a lot like C-11...) If it does become anti-support, it should not itself become support and vice versa.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 9:19 pm

breen cruiser proto cant cloak, protos never get specials of the production vessel.

Nothing in the rules that say that can't change in the redo.

It might be fun to see the breen cruiser have its range changed to medium or short.  Perhaps a short ranged unit with a 360 degree firing arc!

The dominon have quite a lot of forward firing only ships (or most of their firepower is forward only, like the B-8 and T-15).  So a return to 360 degrees with a shorter range would be very welcome by me.  The dominion have plenty of long ranged units, anyway.

I would also like to see the Breen cruiser and battleship be a little different.  Having both of them with SSEC seems bland to me.  Actually, taking it off the Breen Battleship would lower its cost quite a bit.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 9:29 pm

Nothing in the rules that say that can't change in the redo.

It might be fun to see the breen cruiser have its range changed to medium or short.  Perhaps a short ranged unit with a 360 degree firing arc!

The dominon have quite a lot of forward firing only ships (or most of their firepower is forward only, like the B-8 and T-15).  So a return to 360 degrees with a shorter range would be very welcome by me.  The dominion have plenty of long ranged units, anyway.

I would also like to see the Breen cruiser and battleship be a little different.  Having both of them with SSEC seems bland to me.  Actually, taking it off the Breen Battleship would lower its cost quite a bit.

I like the idea of a short-ranged, torp-based, not quite speedy (110 maybe), 360 degree firing arc role for Breen Cruiser. The bigger Breen Battleship could remain a slow long ranged ship with limited arc torps, and thus the roles are very different. Would be nice to see it once again as a Dominion ship that isn't forward firing only.

SSEC on the battleship is nice I think. Breen Cruiser I would think would be less of a range counterer and more of support counterer I would think, also by losing SSEC it no longer has the problems of losing susbsystems at the drop of a hat while cloaking.

New idea about the cloak: I think it should be on the battleship too, but with the battleship only being able to cloak once without recharging like the current Cruiser (maybe bigger ships cause initial cloaking energy use to rise exponentially), and the Cruiser being able to cloak twice without recharging.