Bouncing ping idea

posted on August 1st, 2011, 5:52 pm

So, I've had this idea for a while but I wasn't sure it was the kind of thing Fleet Ops is looking for.  Still, I figured I'd throw it out there so it can be in other peoples' heads as well.  Maybe somebody will want to use it for their own mod, or it would make a good one-time ability for a mission.

Basically, the idea is that whenever a regular tachyon ping (not a grav ping) hits a sensor nebula, that sensor nebula will send out another ping 5-10 seconds later.  Call it harmonic, call it an echo or whatever.  So a single sensor nebula can extend the range of your sensor station a bit.  Two sensor nebulas can do much more.

What this will look like is this:  A fed player sends one sensor nebula next to a sensor station and another one a bit further away.  The station pings, 5-10 seconds later the first nebula pings, 5-10 seconds later the second nebula pings, and then the two move away.  The two ships will continue to bounce the ping back and forth as long as they remain close to each other.

In this form, it would mean that federation fleets have cloak detect as long as they have 2 or more sensor nebs, but only if they first visit a sensor station to pick up a ping.  If their ships get out of position the ping will be lost and they will have to go back and pick up a new one.  If an enemy can snipe the nebula that is "holding" the ping, it will be lost as well.  Disabling the weapon subsystem (or maybe the sensor sub?) will also work.

Alternately, the effect could ONLY work when the nebula has powered up its sensors.  This ability could either have a longer duration or it could be toggled on and off, but the point is that ships bouncing a ping wouldn't be able to fight normally and the devs can limit the duration and range that people can use it.

If this could be implemented, I think it would be perfect.  It's a new, fed-unique form of cloak detect that requires careful micro.  It is unusual, makes perfect sense as a synergy ability, and fits with the federation style of being prepared.  What do you guys think?

posted on August 1st, 2011, 6:03 pm

LOL, I thought this was about ICMP implementation... 

Basically, the idea is that whenever a regular tachyon ping (not a grav ping) hits a sensor nebula, that sensor nebula will send out another ping 5-10 seconds later.  Call it harmonic, call it an echo or whatever.  So a single sensor nebula can extend the range of your sensor station a bit.  Two sensor nebulas can do much more.

I like that idea a lot, though I'm not sure that it can be done (Heh. the devs have done many stuff I wouldn't have believed is possible...). Though this would work best not only with sensor stations, but also mobile cloak detectors. In fact, that would work pretty much like a canon tachyon grid...

posted on August 1st, 2011, 9:16 pm

I thought seriously about allowing it with scouts, but in the end I decided it was a bit too powerful if the feds could restart the ping anywhere.  I think they should have to go back to a fixed position to start it, a position they have to defend that can be raided.

Also, in the occasional event that they get 2 sensor nebulas in one warpin, I don't think they should be able to start a ping behind enemy lines with a scout ship.  That would mean a 12% chance of a warpin rush getting reeeeaally nasty against Klingons and Romulans.

posted on August 1st, 2011, 10:03 pm

well i love the idea as something creative. but i have a great fear it will be op as you described at first.

sensor stations are incredibly cheap, and are balanced by lacking engines. and warpins bring double sensor neb sometimes, not rarely. and even more common it brings 1 sensor neb. so out of 3 warpins, its very likely you'll end up with 2 or more sensor nebs. hence this would happen in many games. keeping pings alive indefinitely would be fun, but crazy op. as this fleet would constantly be pinging, making it a mobile cloak detect that is permanent. and pings every few secons. and is dependent on 2 heavy cruisers that are hard to kill. at least ventures are scouts and die as such. you could travel anywhere with 2 sensor nebs in your fleet constantly pinging. making cloaked raiding way more risky. and making cloaked ambushes almost impossible. also defeats cloaked scout trailing the fleet.

i was thinking that if a sensor was in range of a fed blue ping, it could trade a large amount of special energy to repeat the ping. hence meaning each 1 can ping only once. but it would still be useful, as placing a sensor neb at the edge of a ping circle would extend it. maybe if the sensor neb had a toggle, so that it only trades this energy when desired, as some would rather keep the energy for the normal special. it would help balance it. also only repeating a ping when full scan is active would be good too.

both of these give the already useful sensor neb even more uses, something to be careful with.

posted on August 1st, 2011, 10:04 pm

An interesting concept . I do believe it is possible to do this now actually.

posted on August 1st, 2011, 10:45 pm

yes, i agree, it should be possible with some 'extraweapons' fiddling
though it may not the right thing for fleet operations now, i really like the concept.

posted on August 2nd, 2011, 4:13 am

That's interesting...

Would it be ridiculously hard to make it so each ping only affects 1 sensor nebula?  This way the neb could work the way Myles described, the way the excelsior works.  Each ping costs a bit of special energy, maybe a nebula can only bounce 3 pings before it's tapped out.  That way the effect stacks with the number of nebulas.  With a 5 second delay, 2 nebulas could only keep the effect going for 30 seconds.  A third nebula would extend the time to 45 seconds which isn't enough to get very far on a larger map.  They would need to drop a proxy platform near enemy territory.  In fact, the sensor platform may need to have its hitpoints reduced slightly due to its new effectiveness.

I get the feeling that the devs are moving in the direction of more cloak detect.  The balance wasn't bad back when every race could ping from the starbase, but it wasn't fun either.  With the introduction of the EM adaptor and peri scube, the borg have a full suite of cloak detect options, something I feel the other races need to get more of.  And then when our ships are easier to catch, you can make them cheaper 

posted on August 2nd, 2011, 6:50 am

nah that would not be possible. you cannot build up a net or a "path" of tachyon detection, as you have no control which vessels will receive the next ping Weapons dont remember where they came from. So while you have a chain of say 5 nebulas, only 2 could bounce their pings between them

I like the concept however and the sensor nebula actually got some love in the next patch to work together with the Canaveral, our sensor specialist

posted on August 2nd, 2011, 11:38 am

I like the concept however and the sensor nebula actually got some love in the next patch to work together with the Canaveral, our sensor specialist

please say that using canav sensor synergy on sensor neb increases sensor range like it was a station that would be awesome. i already love getting sensor nebs as you can park them outside enemy base and spy on them easily. much better than venture, cos venture has to sit still, and takes time before it gets full range.

posted on August 2nd, 2011, 3:50 pm

That's cool, I definitely look forward to seeing what they DID get.

Still, now you've got the gears in my head turning.  If a fleet had 3 sensor nebulas moving about, and the ping was an area effect limited to 1 ship, would it bounce between 2 ships all the time?  Or would it be random, uncontrollable so sometimes it bounces to the third ship but you can't be sure it'll rotate in such a way to allow all the ships to use up their energy?

Also, how does targeting work for friendly specials?  Is it possible to prioritize based on vessel type?  The best option would be to look for the highest special energy around, but in a worst case scenario could you turn it into a weapon?  Set the targeting priority of the sensor nebula to be high and then replaceweapon it to have a lower one each time it pings?  The side effects would be order loss and the fact that enemy ships target the sensor nebula first as well...

Just an intriguing computer problem, and I am now officially intrigued. The priority number in every ship odf that says "1.0000", does that still do anything or is it decremented?