Borg experiance gain idea - "Tactical Data Analysis"

posted on November 19th, 2010, 6:46 pm

I originally posted this in another thread, but removed it as it was rather veering off the OP topic.



I was just thinking about Borg experience gain and this is what I came up with:

    The Borg gain a new station, "Tactical Data Analysis Hub"  It's a medium sized station that would be built fairly early in game. The Hub has a experience bar on it that gradually fills whenever any Borg ship destroys or is destroyed by enemy units/stations. When the gauge is filled, you are able to purchase a research option "Tactical Analysis", this allows all Borg units to use an "Adapt" special ability (that costs resources, but is not a module) that grants them one rank. Each vessel can be promoted to Rank one after one research, two after two ect (providing you have the resources, what/how much they are can be determined by others better at balance then me.)

    "Tactical Analysis" is retro active, any Borg vessel constructed after it's been researched can "Adapt" right off the assembly line for as many times as its been Researched, cost to Adapt would vary depending on chassis size and rank. The amount of experience required to fill the stations gauge would increase each time, requiring *a lot* for the final ranks. If the Hub is destroyed, any current progress on the gauge is lost, but anything already researched remains in effect (However you lose access to the Adapt ability until you construct another Hub).

    Only one Borg vessel can become a veteran after reaching double gold bars, this vessel's stats would greatly increase (more then any other races veterans), gaining a passive ability that For Optimization - increases the offensive and defensive capabilities of any Borg vessel/station near it and for Assimilation - greatly increases the effectiveness of holding beams/auto-assimilation beams and boarding parties for any station or vessel near it.


This in my opinion would fit the Borg perfectly, being able to glean valuable information and insight not just from victories but also defeats since all information is shared in real time among all drones (which is why some drones die to phaser fire, allowing others to adapt.) Like all things Borg: it is a slow, expensive process that increases in power dramatically.  The longer the Borg are on the field, the more powerful they become, leave them alone to long and they become a force of nature.

posted on November 19th, 2010, 6:50 pm

Instead of ranks (or maybe in addition), why not have filling the bar unlock a weapon upgrade? The Collective feature Partial Adaption could be adapted to work with the station. You could pick as an alternative the first time the gauge fills.

posted on November 19th, 2010, 6:54 pm

I originally posted this in another thread, but removed it as it was rather veering off the OP topic.

  You would be the first.  EVER. 


  This is a really well thought-out idea on how to implement Borg experience!  I think an idea kind of like this was brought up a while back where  "meter"  of sorts would be filled up over time that would grant you access to special things.  Kind of like a pseudo experience system that would grant all Borg or certain vessels special abilities based on how much combat you seen.


    Not sure if the idea stuck, but you can rest assured that Optec will take any part of it that he likes! . 

posted on November 19th, 2010, 6:58 pm

Instead of ranks (or maybe in addition), why not have filling the bar unlock a weapon upgrade? The Collective feature Partial Adaption could be adapted to work with the station. You could pick as an alternative the first time the gauge fills.

It's possible, the only thing would be seeing how quickly you'd rank up. If it's to quickly then partial adaptation may be unbalanced, if it's to slow (compared to researching it the way it is now) it would also be unbalanced. There are certainly things you could play around with though, perhaps upgrades would be included with each "level up" that were associated with your chosen avatar?

[godsvoice]

posted on November 19th, 2010, 7:18 pm

Last edited by godsvoice on November 19th, 2010, 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I love the idea of Borg adaptability, I've suggested it a few times. Although, in my suggestions to change the ranking system for other races (with a station that can manually train crew of a ship or a shipyard that provides a ship at a higher rank right out of the dock) I was unsure how to translate it to a borg equivalent. Adaptability was the main idea I had, that Borg could adapt to certain weapons, or find weaknesses in specific ship classes or categories and have improved dps.

Although, I don't so much like the idea of a literal rank system that copies that of the other races. There would never be a Veteran Cube. Ever. The collective would make changes throughout every vessel of the same kind, but I don't see this as a rank up. I would think the station would research a 3% resistance to beam weaponry, or special weapons. or a 4% increase damage to all destroyers, or all Akiras. Either the borg lose a lot of ships against a certain weapon/vessel class, and then adapt accordingly, or they destroy so many of a specific class or category of ship eg small large or destroyer battleship, that they adapt their vessels accordingly.

Nothing would change the behaviour of borg drones to make them operate a ship better for enhanced ship production with higher system value. And I don't see them changing strategy that really changes their offensive or defensive output. The change would be increased resistance, or finding a weakness within ships that helps them destroy them faster.

I guess my question is, what does the rank up you suggest do, specifically? I don't really want it to change the borg ships' over all stats. Just offer a percentage increase for resistance against whatever.. because that is what adaptability is for the borg.

If the borg destroy a lot of ships, they don't start thinking, 'hey look at what a good job we've been doing', and then get motivated to keep getting better at it and thereby improve. I would think rather, they just say, hey look you built this ship, and we just keep destroying it, and thereby rest assured in their belief that resistance is futile and ignore the 'threat' completely.

So, my question, what exactly are you saying this station does, specifically. What do the rank ups do? And I'd rather it not be a rank up... no veterans for Borg. But overall, yes, something that makes them stronger to weapons or ships etc.

Edit: oh, and what is the cost of this? I kinda think this should be free, except for time to research. I mean, this is the borg. Adaptability is what they do best... I don't really see them spending huge resources on it, and while I agree they may have to do this (use resources) in getting their adaptations... how costly would it really be for them to this? Romulans build cloaks... cause thats what they do... Borg adapt.

[AtiK]

posted on November 19th, 2010, 7:36 pm

Last edited by AtiK on November 19th, 2010, 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I love the idea of Borg adaptability, I've suggested it a few times. Although, in my suggestions to change the ranking system for other races (with a station that can manually train crew of a ship or a shipyard that provides a ship at a higher rank right out of the dock) I was unsure how to translate it to a borg equivalent. Adaptability was the main idea I had, that Borg could adapt to certain weapons, or find weaknesses in specific ship classes or categories and have improved dps.

Although, I don't so much like the idea of a literal rank system that copies that of the other races. There would never be a Veteran Cube. Ever. The collective would make changes throughout every vessel of the same kind, but I don't see this as a rank up. I would think the station would research a 3% resistance to beam weaponry, or special weapons. or a 4% increase damage to all destroyers, or all Akiras. Either the borg lose a lot of ships against a certain weapon/vessel class, and then adapt accordingly, or they destroy so many of a specific class or category of ship eg small large or destroyer battleship, that they adapt their vessels accordingly.

Nothing would change the behaviour of Borg drones to make them operate a ship better for enhanced ship production with higher system value. And I don't see them changing strategy that really changes their offensive or defensive output. The change would be increased resistance, or finding a weakness within ships that helps them destroy them faster.

I guess my question is, what does the rank up you suggest do, specifically? I don't really want it to change the borg ships' over all stats. Just offer a percentage increase for resistance against whatever.. because that is what adaptability is for the Borg.

If the borg destroy a lot of ships, they don't start thinking, 'hey look at what a good job we've been doing', and then get motivated to keep getting better at it and thereby improve. I would think rather, they just say, hey look you built this ship, and we just keep destroying it, and thereby rest assured in their belief that resistance is futile and ignore the 'threat' completely.

So, my question, what exactly are you saying this station does, specifically. What do the rank ups do? And I'd rather it not be a rank up... no veterans for Borg. But overall, yes, something that makes them stronger to weapons or ships etc.

Edit: oh, and what is the cost of this? I kinda think this should be free, except for time to research. I mean, this is the borg. Adaptability is what they do best... I don't really see them spending huge resources on it, and while I agree they may have to do this (use resources) in getting their adaptations... how costly would it really be for them to this? Romulans build cloaks... cause thats what they do... Borg adapt.

The station itself serves as a Data Processing Center, a Hub where the experiences of the entire collective on the field is relayed to and compiled for analysis. Essentially it's a glorified server farm in space if you want to look at it that way, the Data is analyzed (represented by the gradually filling experience bar) then when weaknesses or upgrades have been found it transmits these to all Borg vessels (allowing them to Adapt their systems accordingly). The Adaptation is represented in game mechanics as a rank up, improving their offensive and defensive abilities.

Simple answer: It's a caveat to work with currently existing game mechanics to keep the system as simple and straightforward as possible.

If you want a lore based reason you could view a ranked Borg vessel as one that has incorporated system  upgrades that increase it's effectiveness and efficiency against what they are fighting. Borg ships are customizable and able to be changed on the fly in the field by it's drones to better adapt it to it's task (eg, ranking up). The Borg crew aren't learning how to better operate their existing vessel, they are changing it (either through physical systems or programming) to better accomplish it's goal.

A veteran Cube isn't one with a more experienced crew, it's one that has Adapted to specialize in it's current task - be that combat, assimilation or what have you.

You could get into making each level up provide more arcane % based increases instead of ranks or whatnot, but my feeling with this is you run the risk of over complicating it for what in the end is essentially the same result.


As for cost, I'd leave specific numbers up to devs as I'm no expert on what would or wouldn't be balanced. I personally feel that the research should be free (and instant once the gauge has filled), but that Adapt should cost something, perhaps supply and CC as they are augmenting the physical structure of the vessel and that requires resources (components, raw materials).

The use of resources is also meant to add strategy, a player has to determine if the cost of Adapting a vessel or vessels is worth it, and which vessels should be Adapted. Using this system, all Borg ships could increase in rank (some without even firing shots), I think to balance that you need to have it entail some investment.

posted on November 19th, 2010, 10:48 pm

Yes, whatever makes the idea work. I like having adaptability incorporated into the borg game play.

I guess for simplicity sake, and comparability, we can call it rank up. I agree, borg often improve their vessles during missions... voyager was upgraded during borg missions to improve the ship on more than one occasion. I didn't mean that this was a bad idea... but I dunno, I guess I'm just not wanting it to be considered 'rank up'. It IS practically the same thing, for game purposes, but there is no borg or ship that is ranking up. It is adapting, and improving weapons or defense. So why not the option of  a button like the starbases have like increase weapon, or shields? Perhaps a module, or something like the Tavara has, where it allows to 'install armor adaptation' or 'install new beam/photon weaponry adaptation'. When its researched at the station, the button appears when the ship is selected for the ship to install it manually.

But I agree, its up to the devs. In the long run, a station helping the borg adapt is an idea I like. haha, now lets give the station idea for the other races too! Yeah, I'm not sure about cost. I'm not the game balancer though, so again, your right, if devs like the idea Im sure theyll find a balanced way to incorporate it.

But instead of seeing my borg cube with two gold bars, I'd rather the upgrades be physically visible on the cube. Maybe some nice shading on the new armor that shines or something... I dunno. 

posted on November 21st, 2010, 10:52 am

The simplest method would be things like every other race's research upgrades.  Improved weapons, engines, sensors, hull (due to no shields) applying to every ship.  A display that the collective has recognized the threat in this sector, and brought additional systems online in all vessels and stations.  Systems that are normally considered unnecessary due to the Borg's overwhelming power.

posted on November 21st, 2010, 12:31 pm

The borg already have a research-station. Adding another one that will do the same thing like those from other races will equal the game mechanics - and thats bad.

You already have your partial adaption and then you want to improve weapons? Why should the borg come along with that. I understand the actual science station, since it will allow the borg to do special tasks to adapt against a certain thread.

So I' against a "reseach station" and go to the active collective adaption for every borg ship - a sphere will adapt that suits a sphere, a cube like a cube, a diamond for a diamond.

There is a reason, why every ship fullfills a certain role.

So give the ships on rankup an additional module that suits the chassis - maybe even with additional costs but "better ones" that you get by building the ship.

The borg need another mechanic and simple rankup is not possible. The only individual element is the queen, and she is not available on every borg ship - so it is more or less an idea for "heroes" we had in another topic.

The rankup should be some kind of running calculation coming from this:

In a fight, a borg ship will analyze the enemy and itself. While the enemy cant be changed, the borg ship can. And so, during a fight, a positiv and negative outcome can be researched to make the ship run more efficient. This is represented by a borg-rankup for a certain ship. This is also valid, because every borg ship is a unique vessel even when it comes from the same class, because it fullfills its own role in the collective.

So a borg-ship will rank up an will get a "small" extra-module on every rankup you can choose from. Some are free, some will cost something and some are only available on certain chassis.

This WILL be a lot of work for the devs to implement, but this method would be flawless for a borg-integration. Everything else will have bad side effects:
- Rankup-station: When it is destroyed, you will lose all your experience... wont make any sense.
- Individual rankup without modules is not availbe, because the borg are working in a collective - you cant simply find arguments for that
- Science station will cut the versatility of the game