Borg decloak ideas

[Anonymous]

posted on July 20th, 2010, 5:43 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on July 20th, 2010, 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i find that the borg have no mobile decloak for times that are outside of battle. ie the venture/talon/vutpa/remote ping of the other races can decloak those enemies you know are there (maybe you saw them cloak or made a guess) but couldnt get to in time with your em scube to fire on them.

so i thought up a few ideas:

1)

give the EM scube the ability to trigger the em field for a brief moment, decloaking stuff like if it was firing.

this sounds too strong so some balances:

- maybe limit it so it can reveal only 1 unit.
- make it cost a lot of special energy
- make it trade offensive/defensive/system value for a small while, so triggering the field causes a time period of lower firepower/weaker defence/slower regeneration etc

2)

give the nanite factory module the ability to decloak.

currently nanite factory does its crew killing in medium range. i suggest giving it decloak over long range (crew killing remains medium range). it seems to me that the nanites could float around space and beep when they find something solid like a hull.

to balance:

maybe make it so u can install 2 nanite factory modules, having 1 module is just like now. installing the second gives the ability to decloak. meaning a decloak oriented assim would be generally weaker.

this of course is only for assim avatar so:

3)

make it so a 3 prime sphere can "trigger" the energy sucking ability to remove all the energy of a fixed number (maybe 3 or 5) nearby ships (cloaked or uncloaked) dropping their special energy drop to 0. this would decloak any cloaked ship affected by it.

to balance:

make it remove a fixed amount of energy, so it can decloak only ships that have small amounts of energy, but not ships with loads of energy.

EDIT: added to idea 3

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on July 20th, 2010, 5:54 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on July 20th, 2010, 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Actually cloak doesn't take energy to stay active, just needs energy to activate. I think that decloak needs to not be on prime module as it will make the Borg lack depth even more and make Opti even more powerful than Assim. I think if Spheres can decloak things it should be by an EM Module for them that gives them a long range advanced cloak detect ability (no ping effect either, so it's sort of like the EM Scube.) The downside (I think there should always be one to allow strategic choices) is that with less energy the Sphere will be vulnerable until its energy fills back up so it can sustain regenerate for the max time.

posted on July 20th, 2010, 6:04 pm

no offence to this but why do all you idiots keep putting scube....ITS CUBE!!!

posted on July 20th, 2010, 6:05 pm

neb u have missed the point of suggestion 3, if u are suggesting restricting your em sphere's cloak detect to be the same as em scube's detect then it wont fix the problem of having no mobile cloak detect that can detect ships that you know are there but cant shoot. (ignoring the small radius of nanites)

if you are saying that you would make the sphere do a triggerable decloak but without a ping, i agree, the prime sphere would cause decloak by draining energy that the ship is using for cloak (even though i know it doesnt need energy to stay on) causing decloak. ie not pinging the ships, but making them decloak.

let me clarify the downside of point 3: it requires all 3 prime modules be installed, which means definitely no regen ability. making the sphere generally weaker.

further possible downsides could be:

- using this special could cause a period with reduced stats of some sort.

no offence to this but why do all you idiots keep putting scube....ITS CUBE!!!

i should get angry at you for calling people idiots when in fact u dont know what you are talking about and have made a fool out of yourself.

scube = scoutcube

this has nothing to do with the cube, which is the massive late game ship.

next time do your homework instead of calling people idiots.

posted on July 20th, 2010, 6:07 pm

no offence to this but why do all you idiots keep putting scube....ITS CUBE!!!

No, the Cube is the massive juggernaught. The small one is the Scout Cube, shortened to SCube.

posted on July 20th, 2010, 6:21 pm

The Borg will get a cooler additional cloak detect system later on - right now we also have Nanites for cloak detect

posted on July 20th, 2010, 6:43 pm

The Borg will get a cooler additional cloak detect system later on - right now we also have Nanites for cloak detect

i can only make suggestions based on what i know, there will always be a next patch with improvements. but i dont know what these are, so i have to make my suggestions based on what is there now. i know the devs will introduce something that fixes the issue, im just giving my ideas on what i think would be a good way forward.

nanites do now affect cloaked vessels too, but their area of effect isnt that large, and they are only available with research at the transmission matrix and only on the cube or diamond. while the talon refit is available from the start, the venture is available after a short while. the vutpa and remote ping are available slightly later, but are worth the wait as they are really useful. the diamond and cube are not available for a long time.

posted on July 20th, 2010, 6:59 pm

If you are on priority level 2 you can get out the correct amount of CC's every 6 minutes . A diamond can be popped out earlier than a refitted Vutpa' with expensive Mass Seekers if you so choose. The area of affect is comparable to the Klingon's decloaker  . I take it you haven't tried to get the Vutpa' fast yet otherwise you'd realize just how late game it is .

posted on July 20th, 2010, 7:02 pm

vutpa requires ordnance depot. so it is rather late, but its better than nanites.

nanites will only hit ships in the nanite effect. vutpa will decloak a ship in a large radius without even needing to aim.

posted on July 20th, 2010, 7:08 pm

Vutpa' requires two expensive researches in addition to the Ordnance Depot (which of course needs 2 earlier yards and another research station), and then its Mass Seekers are only useful against cloaked units.

posted on July 20th, 2010, 7:24 pm

the mass seekers will only be researched for decloak, which is fine. i dont mind that they wont hit visible vessels.

nanites do work but they require a lot of tech too, transmission matrix plus time to research nanites then u need a diamond or cube. a diamond on its own will die rather fast. most people dont get to diamond for quite a while.

posted on July 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

So your argument that Mass Seekers is so much better than Nanites is because Mass Seekers is more expensive, takes longer to research, only hits up to three cloaked units (and only cloaked units as opposed to Nanites hitting more ships and not just cloaked ones) per round, is medium range and because "most people don't get to diamond for quite a while"? 

Incidentally Diamonds only seem to die faster because they are the first unit to be targeted - just like when you see a Venture or a Talon Refit - it's the first to die. Nonetheless, anything with such a HIGH defense and system value that can stay fairly far out of range isn't going to go down that fast, especially when it's spamming damage dealing and subsystem damaging/breaking nanites at your motionless ships . Play around with these a bit more - I think you'll learn to appreciate how effective they are in 3.1.3.

posted on July 20th, 2010, 8:25 pm

i never said mass seekers is "so much better" it is available rather late as well, but it is better by a small amount. but this suggestion was about giving the borg some more variety. as until they can make a diamond they are stumped if they know an enemy is there but didnt fire their em scube on it.

for the klinks i think its ok they only have brel (and other veterans with manual targetting) they also have cloak, so can go hunting themselves.

in contrast borg cant strike from the shadows so easily.

nanites are useful, not only for cloak detect, they are all round amazing

if u want to rush to a diamond then its competitive time wise, but rush to diamond is something u dont see very often. if u rush to diamond then the only ship u have will be diamond and of course it will be targetted first.

nanites can be shot from long range, but will only decloak stuff that is within, or just outside the field. the mass seekers will hit within medium range.

with the talon and venture its best to keep them behind your fleet on green alert and make them run away if anything runs for them, they can escape if microd carefully as they are zippy.

what im saying is that the diamond usually comes later as a support for an existing force, like 3 spheres or a couple pyramids, some people even prefer to put out the first cube before supporting it with a diamond. and you're likely to use nanites/otc a lot, not having energy for more nanites as decloak.

in summation nanites arent useless at decloak by far, they have uses, just the fact that they are super useful all round and available only for cube/diamond means that the borg could benefit with some other nice cloak detect.

posted on July 20th, 2010, 9:10 pm

Yup, I agree (though... I didn't particularly like the ideas you posted  )

in summation nanites arent useless at decloak by far, they have uses, just the fact that they are super useful all round and available only for cube/diamond means that the borg could benefit with some other nice cloak detect.

Still, at the risk of further bringing this topic away from its original purpose, I think that Nanites are quite good as decloakers - and I'm fine with them being more available than Mass Seekers. I was just surprised that you had left that off your initial list, and then I just responded to your Vutpa' assessment, which I still hold is wrong .

Personally I'd rather wait and see what the devs conjure up for the 'Borgie cloak-detect'.

Perhaps as some additional Borg cloak detect ideas ... something like bombarding an area with tachyons wouldn't seem so far fetched, or scanning an area with an intense beam of alternating frequencies as in Voyager. Could offer some cool effects if the beam 'swept' an area, rather than decloaked everything within the weapon's radius all at once like the graviton-tachyon pings.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on July 20th, 2010, 11:27 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on July 20th, 2010, 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

neb u have missed the point of suggestion 3, if u are suggesting restricting your em sphere's cloak detect to be the same as em scube's detect then it wont fix the problem of having no mobile cloak detect that can detect ships that you know are there but cant shoot. (ignoring the small radius of nanites)

if you are saying that you would make the sphere do a triggerable decloak but without a ping, i agree, the prime sphere would cause decloak by draining energy that the ship is using for cloak (even though i know it doesnt need energy to stay on) causing decloak. ie not pinging the ships, but making them decloak.

let me clarify the downside of point 3: it requires all 3 prime modules be installed, which means definitely no regen ability. making the sphere generally weaker.

further possible downsides could be:

- using this special could cause a period with reduced stats of some sort.

No not the same as EM Scube, it would be an ability like nanites. To add onto it, I think it should last for 40 seconds and take 450 energy per use so that the Sphere is a nice mobile cloak detect.

I would rather it detects ships but not actually make them decloak, as by making them decloak you give them shields and weapons. So if you find a cloaked fleet capable of killing you then it will kill you.
With a detection, not decloak, system that has no visible ping effect, they only know you've seen them because either you forgot to set green alert and fired on them or they noticed that 450 energy disappeared from your sphere. Also if you keep red alert on and detect cloaks then you can get some shots off on their exposed hulls, possibly even killing a ship. Also you could board the cloaked ships (I often do this with Ventures and my starbase, it is amazing to get a talon and refit it.)
Something for Borg that makes ships decloak would be an interesting thing, but their main cloak detect would be better as detection.

I don't think it should need three prime modules, that would make the Sphere almost completely useless for combat and it would take quite a while to repair. People would have to choose between cloak detect and a good combat fleet. The Federation doesn't have to give up on building Intrepids for a bit so they can get Venture cloak detect.

I don't like reduced stats for Borg, that would make it as easy as tricking a Borg player into using the decloak on your uberfleet, which then pwns the reduced-stat Sphere.