Battleships - Are they really worth it?

posted on October 20th, 2007, 10:55 pm

As of 2007, not a single Naval force in this planet has a single Battleship class in commission. The last Battleship class, the Iowa class, was decommissioned by the US Navy just last year, and there are no plans to design and construct newer battleships. The Navy works much more efficiently with smaller ships with specialized roles.

This bit of reality also seems to seep into FO. Battleships, (Sovereigns, D'Deridexes, Negh'Vars) are really not worth the cost and the time and the research. A fleet comprised of a well-balanced force of destroyers and cruisers outmatches 4~6 large, bulky, slow battleships.

My suggestion is to make Battleships really worth the trouble. I'm not talking about reducing research costs and shipbuild times, (For my suggestions to work, cost and time should be increased drastically) I'm talking about the actual specs of the battleships themselves.

1) Multi-targetting weapons: I cannot imagine how a heavily armed battleship with dozens of phaser banks would only fire at one target at a time. Even Voyager, and Intepid Class ship, was seen firing up to 3 phaser blasts at 3 different targets (VOY: Dragon's Teeth). A Sovereign, for example, should be able to target and fire at least 4 ships at once.

2) Support Crafts: Larger ships should be able to launch a variety of support ships, such as Peregrine class fighters, or at least several shuttles for scouting.
3) Battleships could also provide benefits to ships in a specific radius, such as increased fire rate, shield recharge rate, etc

4) Since Battleships are supposed to be expensive, let's make it expensive. There are only 2 Sovereign class ships in the entire Federation. A player shouldn't be economically able to build more than 1~2.

Sorry if this whole thing sounds a bit noncoherent. I'm really tired right now .. lol

posted on October 20th, 2007, 11:06 pm

The Doctor agrees, make 'em rare, make 'em big, make 'em bad ass.

Just... like... in... the... show!!! 

No seriously, I see your point. The sov in FO is great, but the excelsior II is comparable in terms of how long it survives, mainly due to the quantums. And it feels like I can build 3 excelsiors for every sov, so it's a no brainer. Build 40 excelsiors and send in the cavalry!

Or... make a battleship a true battleship, so that just like the Negh'var at the end of DS9, one ship really makes a difference.

posted on October 20th, 2007, 11:29 pm

1)

Less than possible with Armada's current Engine. All ships should be able to multi target by this rule, since ALL ships in this game have dramatically reduced weapons arrays because of how the games engine is designed. Even the saber class ships have more than one phaser array, thus they should be able to multi-target.

2)

Also possible, and we have some ships which do this. Sovereign class carries no fighters, Scoutships maybe but by this regard all ships have shuttles for the most part.

3)

This is interesting, the presence of a battleship could be a moral boost to you and a drain on the enemy, since your soldiers value their own lives over the end of the battle. But, support ships generally perform this same function.

4)

No.

There are more than 2 Sovereign class ships in the Federation. OR there are less.

(And there are other designs such as the Prometheus which are arguably just as strong.)

If you do not consider games canon, then there is one. If you do, then there are many, likely half a dozen. Simply because the Galaxy class is now a common ship in the Federation so it is more likely for them to be commissioning a few Sovereign class ships.

posted on October 20th, 2007, 11:57 pm

I've played mods with ships that can fire a dozen or so weapons at once, and at multiple targets.

posted on October 21st, 2007, 5:33 am

I've played mods with ships that can fire a dozen or so weapons at once, and at multiple targets.

Yeah, its definitely possible, with a little bit of ODF editing. The Dominion Battleship's Excessive Strike special weapon has multiple targetting, if I'm not mistaken..

[Shril]

posted on October 21st, 2007, 5:37 am

Last edited by Shril on October 22nd, 2007, 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

A good point! However I'd like to see it in a separated mode just to find out how it works and if people like it. It makes no sense if there are 10 blokes that would like to play a game with such a balance. I count myself into that group and would really like to see smaller ships be worth a rush on the mining stations and low armed stations but fail horribly versus a starbases and bigger ships, even if you throw entire fleets of bugs into the base. 10 Sabers shouldn't be able to destroy a Klingon Negvar nor should 1 fleet of bugs be able to destroy a heavy armed starbase.

General Multiple Tasking should not destroy micromanaging aspects even if it looks nice. If a starbase would be able to target 10 ships this would be ok. But a Sovereign should at max be able to target 2 or 3 ships. Otherwise battles would turn into a bad mess. You always have to consider the feeling when playing. Games are always not canon and you will never get it to a 100% canonity.



First problem is...we should first change the balance to a degree which fits most to our imaginations...who is going to redo the balance for that and offer the team this to inlcude as a separate game mode (if they even want so)? Maybe they have a open ear for such a project but not the time to do it as odf work is a very long lasting one.

posted on October 21st, 2007, 10:07 am

i'll take up the challenege, in terms fo adding multi targeting that is quite easy an is one small piece of odf code, beefing up starbases won't be to hard either or giving them the ability to fire on multiple targets at once... the question is, who wants to beta test...

posted on October 21st, 2007, 2:40 pm

Wow, this sounds so amazing I could barely keep my mouth shut!
This brings my dream of having more realistic ship battles so much closer (I had thought it would be impossible before). Could this be the solution to "gang bang" ship battles?

posted on October 21st, 2007, 4:47 pm

Could this be the solution to "gang bang" ship battles?

In some random mod I played like 4 years ago, multi targeting was a partial solution to gang banging, but all of my ships still targetted one "common" ship to gangbang..lol

posted on October 21st, 2007, 6:11 pm

well yhea thats because of the classlabel used to get the ships to target more than one, its a reuse of a borg weapon label but you can tell it the max amount of targets though, so hit 3 or 4 or just 1 extra ship, you just cant control what ships it hits... lol...

posted on October 21st, 2007, 6:22 pm

well yhea thats because of the classlabel used to get the ships to target more than one, its a reuse of a borg weapon label but you can tell it the max amount of targets though, so hit 3 or 4 or just 1 extra ship, you just cant control what ships it hits... lol...

Its Ultrian Burst isn't it, that has the ODF modifier?

posted on October 22nd, 2007, 8:39 am

We do currently have no plans to add multi targeting to the existing units. We had a major re-balancing to even out the usability of early- and endgame units. You should find both worth building now.

posted on October 22nd, 2007, 9:57 am

I would Beta Test it if you want. How long do you think the first odf work is ready? I recommend to take all the time you need...cos I'm on a trial journey during the next 2 or 3  weeks and I don't know if I'm gonna have internet. pm me your email address plz and we can sort it out.

posted on October 22nd, 2007, 1:11 pm

to add multitargetting shouldnt take more than a day, but getting it balanced is another issue...

posted on October 22nd, 2007, 3:30 pm

I long to see the results of this! (of both I mean )