Avatar Ideas

posted on December 11th, 2009, 1:37 am

I'm new, but after playing a few times (against my computer), it occured to me that it would be cool if we could create our own characters to play as, that is create our own avatars and play as them rather than pick one. You could design a system where by winning a match would grant you a certain number of points which you could allocate to enhance certain aspects of game play such as faster build times or enchancing ship offensive or defensive abilities, etc. Maybe there could be a ranking system where as you win and gain points you move up in rank, higher ranks grant you access to special ships like the Phalanx or Norway or maybe even the right to build certain ships which are normally only avalible via warp-in, but you get to pick what you want. Maybe it could be limited so that as you become more specialized in certain areas (as is apt to happen) you cut off or gain access to certain ships. It's just a thought. I realize it might be difficult to implement, espicially for the Borg, but it would certainly be interesting. You could put a cap on how far you could rise, if you felt that such a system could get out of hand, to powerful that is. If this goes completely contrary to the sprit or intention of or your plans for the avatar system, then never mind. But it would still be cool.

posted on December 11th, 2009, 3:13 am

That would be really cool but idk how it would happen. Prolly would be best if it stayed as a singleplay option though. But actually it could work as a multiplayer. Anyway if it could be done it would be amazing.

posted on December 11th, 2009, 3:22 am

In some ways it would work better as a multiplayer system (or might at least have more meaning, the AI doesn't care only us players will care about it; I had actually thought of it as working best as an MP idea). I suppose it depends on how far you want to take the idea. For it to work really well as a multiplayer idea, it would have to be some how tied to a web forum or some game hosting service, etc., that way there would be more awareness amongst players and all that sort of stuff. Either way it would be very cool if it could be done.

posted on December 11th, 2009, 4:24 am

we talked about an online ranking system but we though it would only foster elitism.

posted on December 11th, 2009, 4:54 am

I suppose that will always one of the worries, one would hope that we are above such things (which is not to say it doesn't happen). Unfortunately, it does lose a certain amount of purpose, especially in a MP context since it is in part a show of your mastery of the game. Although perhaps you misunderstood what I was thinking, which is only a vague idea. My idea is that you create a character for yourself in the game and that is simultaneously associated with a matching profile in a system devoted to MP matches. Part of the idea is that the two are synced, so if you win, your game character/profile/*your favorite terminology here* is awarded points by the game for you to spend as you see fit; once that is updated, it syncs with your server/host/etc. profile. Now maybe you don't broadcast anything more than you're current rank or just minimal info. This is so that people who wish to engage in battle with you know what they're up against.

I suppose ultimately you're dealing with two different but connected ideas: the system as a game mechanism and/or the system as a MP "grading". If the system could be designed to function qualitatively rather than a simple quantitative mechanism, it could be really good. By this I mean award based on a system of qualitative assessments of performance, skill, relative strength of the forces (did you win with lots of ships or just a few), relative rank of players (if a lower ranking person beats a high ranked veteran, then they must have excellent skills and tactics) versus just accruing points and leveling up (that's lame) since you could just play forever and never improve your skills, just your rank.

I never said it would be easy, indeed it would require a lot of thought, but would be very cool. I suppose if the developers think that this will set things down the wrong path, oh well, but even if that's the case, they should still try to implement it for SP (if only for all those folks who liked the be-your-own-boss feel of the original game (like me); when you have to pick an avatar it feels like you're acting a role or being ordered about just a bit).

posted on December 11th, 2009, 3:11 pm

Although definitely an interesting idea (which I have seen pop up a few times before .. I believe I even suggested something similar a few years ago) I believe that it would be extraordinarily difficult to implement. For it not to cause out of sync errors, and for it to allow the customization that you'd want, you'd literally have to have many more thousands of odf's in order to express all permutations. So, ethical/elitist possible issues aside, it would seem quite hard to accomplish using this game engine. However, the FO Dev team has been known to use magic before to accomplish their goals, so I could definitely be wrong and it might be doable. 

posted on December 11th, 2009, 7:07 pm

Well, in the game "Lord of the Rings: The battle for Middle-earth" (LOR:BME) they have implemented something like that. There is a set of ready characters, but you can also custom build your own, choosing what clothes they wear and so on. But the more interesting thing is that then you can choose what abilities he gains when he grows a level.

Now if you take that and change it slightly, you could use it for FO. In LOR:BME, when you choose these abilities, you have something like a tech tree...

And I think it is best explained by using an example:
Level 1 abilities(this is what you hero starts with (and these are all made up... ):
- Swiftstrike
- Poison
- Call troops
- Spy

Level 2 abilites:
- Swiftstrike lvl 2
- Poison lvl 2
- Call troops lvl 2
- Spy lvl 2
- Special Unit: Ogers
- Firestorm

Level 3 abilities:
- Swiftstrike lvl 3
- Poison lvl 3
- Call troops lvl 3
- Spy lvl 3
- Special Unit: Ogers lvl 2
- Firestorm lvl 2
- Earthquake
- Volcano

and so on...

So, it LOR you have a certain amount of point you can use for abilities... and according to the level they are, the more points an ability costs. Furthermore, if you want (for example) Poison lvl 3, you need to have poison lvl 1 & lvl 2 as well. But you could just as well spend as many points as you want on the lvl 1 abilities and few higher level ones or vica-verca.

And if we take use this in FO (with the Romulans as an example):

Level 1 abilities could be something like simply Offensive, Defensive and System Value upgrades and other upgrades like the reduced cost of the Intelligence center.

Level 2 abilities:
-if you toke the Intelligence center upgrade, then the level 2 ability could be shrikes, representing that the player works more with the Tal'Shiar
- if you toke a defensive and or a system upgrade, then you get the griffin, showing that you are more focused on keeping you ships alive
- and I am running out of ideas, so think of one and insert here--->


This is what jumped into my head, when I read this. One thing this would do is create fully customizable characters... and I guess using a system like this, there is only an x amount of possible combinations, maybe making the programming issue smaller (?????? no idea...)

posted on December 11th, 2009, 7:15 pm

Heh, if you guys could see the ODF folder in the Star Trek Armada data folder, you'd understand the vast complexity of relating these files to one another.

  All the ODF's tell things what to do.  They are all lined up in a system to tell each ship what to fire, what to become as it ranks up, and everything else.  Each Avatar also requires specific NEW ODF's for ANYthing that's different.  No joke on that.

  For example:  Every single Borg combination of modules has it's own ODF file to tell it what to do.  THEN on top of that each combination of modules has a whole host of weapon files to change the weapons based on what modules were picked.  I'm gonna look here and see that there are 94 different Cubes possible.  There are 172 different ODF's for the Cube weapons alone as well.  Each one of those weapons has to be created ahead of time to make those different combinations possible.  This is easier because the borg do not have a ranking system.

  Also, each RANK has to have it's own ship ODF and a whole new set of weapon ODF's and weapon Ordinance ODF's to go along with it.  Needless to say ... it's a bitch.

   
  While your idea would totally rock  , in practical theory it would require the devs to essentially account for every possible combination of ships that were adjustable.  I cannot fathom the kind of work that would take

posted on December 11th, 2009, 7:55 pm

yep, while the armada engine is relatively fast and very easy to understand even for non-programmers, its kinda limited once it comes such complex scripting there is always a price you pay

posted on December 11th, 2009, 7:56 pm

but how do the upgrades (shields, weapons and so on) work then? do they also use a new odf?
couldnt some of the abilties used as "upgrades then" (global ones like reduced ship costs, faster ships and so on)

posted on December 11th, 2009, 7:59 pm

Shields upgrades just boost the present shield strength by an almost non-existant amount (like all upgrades), so no new odfs are used for them. They only work for ship systems, though.

posted on December 11th, 2009, 9:08 pm

Since the core idea is personalization, would it be possible to have the engine create the personalized odfs and store them in the same place as saved games and logs with the thought being that you don't have to premake an odf for every possibility you create them on the spot and modify them as you advance. Or, here's another thougt, I've noticed that you can assign symbolic variables to odf properties, so then, could you save to an .odf or .h file, kept in, again, the game save place, a number of customization variables and then assign these variables to the odf properties. I think this is doable but you have to think in terms of completely redesigning the system not just tweeking it. Then since each higher ship rank simply adds to the previous or current value, you can just add that constant to the variable, assuming you can use basic math operations.

posted on December 12th, 2009, 6:45 am

Heh, if you guys could see the ODF folder in the Star Trek Armada data folder, you'd understand the vast complexity of relating these files to one another.

Does  Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - RCIX's Modding Kit help with this?

posted on December 12th, 2009, 7:06 am

Yes.  RCIX's kit explains what most of the lines in the odfs do, especially any new stuff.  Just dive into the odf folder and check out how things work!

posted on December 12th, 2009, 7:17 am

It does seem to explain things a lot... but it doesn't seem to help with the organizing and keeping things straight...

What if you had something that compiled all of the .odfs for you... what would one want that to look like?