Active Special Weapon Disabler Passive
Post ideas and suggestions on new features or improvements here.
posted on February 2nd, 2012, 2:53 am
Pretty straight forward thought.
When a ship is currently using an active special that is in use by the ship, I would think it reasonable to give the possibility of having ships hit and deactivate that special weapon.
Ships of similar size have a certain percentage chance of achieving that goal, say roughly 30%. When a larger ship targets a smaller ship greater chance, say 45%. When a smaller ship tries to disable the special of a larger battleship smaller chance, say 15%.
For example.
Borg holding beams, certain ship classes have a passive that enables a time-out of that special on the targeted ship. So a diamond using holding beam could have a sovereign knock it out for say 3 seconds. Allowing a ship to break free. Same with a chargh.
What this is not:
The ship can only target the special when it is currently being used. So a ship can't target a diamond or cube, and disable the weapon before it is activated. (Knock the weapon out like a subsystem, I'm not looking for that)
For specials like the sovereigns engine disable that does not remain constantly active over time, this does not affect that at all. The special was used, and rides out its affect, you can't revert it.
Simply for specials that remain constantly in use over time, the use can be disrupted.
I don't think this really requires giving examples from the shows... as they would be quite numerous.
When a ship is currently using an active special that is in use by the ship, I would think it reasonable to give the possibility of having ships hit and deactivate that special weapon.
Ships of similar size have a certain percentage chance of achieving that goal, say roughly 30%. When a larger ship targets a smaller ship greater chance, say 45%. When a smaller ship tries to disable the special of a larger battleship smaller chance, say 15%.
For example.
Borg holding beams, certain ship classes have a passive that enables a time-out of that special on the targeted ship. So a diamond using holding beam could have a sovereign knock it out for say 3 seconds. Allowing a ship to break free. Same with a chargh.
What this is not:
The ship can only target the special when it is currently being used. So a ship can't target a diamond or cube, and disable the weapon before it is activated. (Knock the weapon out like a subsystem, I'm not looking for that)
For specials like the sovereigns engine disable that does not remain constantly active over time, this does not affect that at all. The special was used, and rides out its affect, you can't revert it.
Simply for specials that remain constantly in use over time, the use can be disrupted.
I don't think this really requires giving examples from the shows... as they would be quite numerous.
posted on February 2nd, 2012, 3:08 am
Nice idea 
posted on February 2nd, 2012, 10:22 am
Great idea. Currently the holding beam on borg structures annoys me because there is no way to break free (aside from activating a special, but i understand that is a glitch).
posted on February 2nd, 2012, 10:37 am
I don't understand, do you want it to be a passive special weapon disabler or an active one? 
posted on February 2nd, 2012, 10:41 am
i love the idea's realism, but i could see this shafting the borg pretty bad, there aren't many specials like this that would be sensible to disable. borg holding beams, blue beam assim, chargh holding beam, cehlaer holding beam. and of course good ol' constructor tractors for when your engines are dead.
other specials stay active over time like phase plates, but i don't think it's sensible to have phase plates have a chance go down for a few seconds when hit, as that greatly weakens them. also the phase plates replaceweapon issues would be magnified. same with hyper impulse for sabre or last ditch for the susa. these are things that are activated inside the ship and should remain tied to the weapons subsystem.
i think it should only apply to the 5 weapons above (holding/assim/chargh/cehlaer/const tractor). and should only get the chance to be disabled by support ships firing on it, as supports have accurate sensors to target the precise spots for disabling. borg would have a higher resistance to this as they have more of these specials, also they've learned from the shows where they got their holding beam shot at.
all these specials require putting something outside the ship (the beams) so they can be targeted.
other specials stay active over time like phase plates, but i don't think it's sensible to have phase plates have a chance go down for a few seconds when hit, as that greatly weakens them. also the phase plates replaceweapon issues would be magnified. same with hyper impulse for sabre or last ditch for the susa. these are things that are activated inside the ship and should remain tied to the weapons subsystem.
i think it should only apply to the 5 weapons above (holding/assim/chargh/cehlaer/const tractor). and should only get the chance to be disabled by support ships firing on it, as supports have accurate sensors to target the precise spots for disabling. borg would have a higher resistance to this as they have more of these specials, also they've learned from the shows where they got their holding beam shot at.
all these specials require putting something outside the ship (the beams) so they can be targeted.
posted on February 2nd, 2012, 12:43 pm
I want it to be a passive. I meant it would only be used when the special weapons are currently 'active'. So it is a passive, that is only effective when the special weapon is currently in use.
Yeah, I suppose that is true, only a handful of special weapons are like this.
But yeah, I actually did mean to say it should be a fairly small portion of your fleet that get this passive, not every ship in the fleet. Max 2-3 per faction. An early game option, stronger mid game, and final late-game in an ideal world.
These ships could be specifically built for additional reasons on top of the usual to counter ships like this.
I agree with the idea behind using support ships, and for some reason I'm in favour of long range and short range units getting this. Only support ships of medium range could use this, but not other medium ranged ships.
I'm not sure if this adds to the discussion but some other ideas floating around:
If need be, we can tweak the percent, I think 30 is a bit high. Maybe something more like 3% 7% and 11%. These are the odds when shields are still up. When shields are lowered however, the percent changes to having the disable special work 79%, 83%, and 87% of the time. For those ships with the passive.
Oh, and maybe against stations the idea only works for large battleships. So it can't be effective early game. Destroyers just don't pack enough punch to disable it. That would help borg out for at least a time. Or maybe some cruisers get it.
Also, perhaps there could be a slight adjustment given to specific weapons. I.e. in addition to the odds above, using pulse weapons gives a slightly lower overall chance of disabling, whereas beam and torps get a slight advantage. Direct torpedo hit being best chance. I don't know how to translate it to percentages those.
Yeah, I suppose that is true, only a handful of special weapons are like this.
But yeah, I actually did mean to say it should be a fairly small portion of your fleet that get this passive, not every ship in the fleet. Max 2-3 per faction. An early game option, stronger mid game, and final late-game in an ideal world.
These ships could be specifically built for additional reasons on top of the usual to counter ships like this.
I agree with the idea behind using support ships, and for some reason I'm in favour of long range and short range units getting this. Only support ships of medium range could use this, but not other medium ranged ships.
I'm not sure if this adds to the discussion but some other ideas floating around:
If need be, we can tweak the percent, I think 30 is a bit high. Maybe something more like 3% 7% and 11%. These are the odds when shields are still up. When shields are lowered however, the percent changes to having the disable special work 79%, 83%, and 87% of the time. For those ships with the passive.
Oh, and maybe against stations the idea only works for large battleships. So it can't be effective early game. Destroyers just don't pack enough punch to disable it. That would help borg out for at least a time. Or maybe some cruisers get it.
Also, perhaps there could be a slight adjustment given to specific weapons. I.e. in addition to the odds above, using pulse weapons gives a slightly lower overall chance of disabling, whereas beam and torps get a slight advantage. Direct torpedo hit being best chance. I don't know how to translate it to percentages those.
posted on February 2nd, 2012, 1:22 pm
I previously proposed to make borg holding beams use special energy to give it a timer, but devs felt the unlimited power supply was a borg feature.
Some way to break free would be nice.
I see two possible options:
1. Break free with weapons fire (could use the percentages above) for offensive / large vessels.
2. Use feedback pulse. Available for smaller vessels as well. Less effective if the vessel/structure holding it is large (sphere/cube) but at least it'd give a vessel a small chance to break free.
Some way to break free would be nice.
I see two possible options:
1. Break free with weapons fire (could use the percentages above) for offensive / large vessels.
2. Use feedback pulse. Available for smaller vessels as well. Less effective if the vessel/structure holding it is large (sphere/cube) but at least it'd give a vessel a small chance to break free.
posted on February 2nd, 2012, 1:31 pm
I support #1. Both are used in canon, but #1 was also used in the A1 intro by a Sovereign.
posted on February 2nd, 2012, 1:46 pm
A very nice idea godsvoice. I would vote for a vessel with the new Offensive Profile having such a feature, especially some of the more powerful ships. I could see this ability on Support Vessels too, but having it on Offensive Profile ships makes more sense to me.
Or... In line with the new feature of Support Vessels getting a passive ability - a Support ship with a passive that allows nearby Offensive Profile ships have a chance to disable such weapons as Combat Tractor, Holding Beam, etc.
I think that would be cool - Support ship provides targeting information to the big guns of Offensive Profile ship.
Or... In line with the new feature of Support Vessels getting a passive ability - a Support ship with a passive that allows nearby Offensive Profile ships have a chance to disable such weapons as Combat Tractor, Holding Beam, etc.
I think that would be cool - Support ship provides targeting information to the big guns of Offensive Profile ship.
posted on February 3rd, 2012, 3:50 am
Agreed! I could see it on a defensive vessel as well.
posted on February 3rd, 2012, 4:53 am
Last edited by godsvoice on February 3rd, 2012, 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Been thinking this through a little bit more.
First I just want a list of what ships and specials this would deal with. Feel free to add.
Obviously, assim, holding beam, chargh, cehlr, and constructor were mentioned. Also: Newton. Feds like to repair their damaged ships. I disapprove of this. Target the repair beam! Destroy the damaged vessel!
So, beyond this, question begs for ships that have specials with 'lasts until cancelled' or last 8 sec, 25 sec, 30 sec. For instance, imperial stance, phase plates, saber, chonaq etc etc. What is causing imperial stance to give plus attributes? Is it or is it not reasonable to think that the chonaqs rediversion of energy could be somehow targeted. Same with phase plates. I very much agree with things like saber or susa or things that just supercharge a subsystem, to a point, that it was caused from within the vessel. But I am wondering what the devs think. Is this still susceptible to weapons fire that might disrupt the whole process or power flow? Either way not a big deal, just need to make clear what this is involving.
Alright to the other matter of how this passive is created. With the recent post of synergies, I was think this might involve ANY support vessel (this part is mandatory) and either defensive or offensive class ships of specific kinds. I am thinking short range defence ships get this, and long range offensive ships. Perhaps. The support vessel does not have the passive itself. However, as soon as any one of these specials is activated within the sensor range of the support vessel, the support vessel relays the information to a nearby vessel that then automatically targets the ship and attempts to disable it.
Small or large defensive ships have the role of protecting ships that might get caught in these beams, just as much as offensive ships have the role of targeting and destroying ships that pose a threat. I guess in the end, I don't really care which ships get it, can be smaller bigger, short medium range, torp spewing, beam firing, or pulse grenading ships, but either way, I just want it to be fewer in number. Particular ships say 2-3, maybe 1 or 2 more depending if the devs want it or not, spread over the early - late game.
Um, yeah, I think that was mostly all the recent thoughts... specific specials list, how to deal with other specials that span over time, and how it is implemented. Either way, devs will see how to balance it and what makes sense for what specials can be disabled or not.
It could even be that the offensive or defensive ships have the passive themselves, and as it is their role to manage a battle they don't need a support vessels help, and just target ships themselves as soon as it comes up in their sensor range radius. But in addition, if support vessels WERE present, the percentages for effectiveness dramatically increase. So let's say we combine my earlier numbers, where ships on their own have 3, 7, and 11% and with presence of support vessel to help 'support' its efforts, percentages are increased to 13, 17, and 21.
So sort of two potential ways to include support vessels I guess. I dunno.
Edit: Oops, that might be conflicting, if its a passive, it is already automatic right? So it is never 'activated' by a support vessel? I dunno, if the idea does go through, in the end it doesn't matter, different ideas can be given to how it all works. If its a passive, I guess it is automatic, but oh well. Just suggestions here.
First I just want a list of what ships and specials this would deal with. Feel free to add.
Obviously, assim, holding beam, chargh, cehlr, and constructor were mentioned. Also: Newton. Feds like to repair their damaged ships. I disapprove of this. Target the repair beam! Destroy the damaged vessel!
So, beyond this, question begs for ships that have specials with 'lasts until cancelled' or last 8 sec, 25 sec, 30 sec. For instance, imperial stance, phase plates, saber, chonaq etc etc. What is causing imperial stance to give plus attributes? Is it or is it not reasonable to think that the chonaqs rediversion of energy could be somehow targeted. Same with phase plates. I very much agree with things like saber or susa or things that just supercharge a subsystem, to a point, that it was caused from within the vessel. But I am wondering what the devs think. Is this still susceptible to weapons fire that might disrupt the whole process or power flow? Either way not a big deal, just need to make clear what this is involving.
Alright to the other matter of how this passive is created. With the recent post of synergies, I was think this might involve ANY support vessel (this part is mandatory) and either defensive or offensive class ships of specific kinds. I am thinking short range defence ships get this, and long range offensive ships. Perhaps. The support vessel does not have the passive itself. However, as soon as any one of these specials is activated within the sensor range of the support vessel, the support vessel relays the information to a nearby vessel that then automatically targets the ship and attempts to disable it.
Small or large defensive ships have the role of protecting ships that might get caught in these beams, just as much as offensive ships have the role of targeting and destroying ships that pose a threat. I guess in the end, I don't really care which ships get it, can be smaller bigger, short medium range, torp spewing, beam firing, or pulse grenading ships, but either way, I just want it to be fewer in number. Particular ships say 2-3, maybe 1 or 2 more depending if the devs want it or not, spread over the early - late game.
Um, yeah, I think that was mostly all the recent thoughts... specific specials list, how to deal with other specials that span over time, and how it is implemented. Either way, devs will see how to balance it and what makes sense for what specials can be disabled or not.
It could even be that the offensive or defensive ships have the passive themselves, and as it is their role to manage a battle they don't need a support vessels help, and just target ships themselves as soon as it comes up in their sensor range radius. But in addition, if support vessels WERE present, the percentages for effectiveness dramatically increase. So let's say we combine my earlier numbers, where ships on their own have 3, 7, and 11% and with presence of support vessel to help 'support' its efforts, percentages are increased to 13, 17, and 21.
So sort of two potential ways to include support vessels I guess. I dunno.
Edit: Oops, that might be conflicting, if its a passive, it is already automatic right? So it is never 'activated' by a support vessel? I dunno, if the idea does go through, in the end it doesn't matter, different ideas can be given to how it all works. If its a passive, I guess it is automatic, but oh well. Just suggestions here.
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