Accrophydia

posted on November 15th, 2012, 11:40 am

Just woundering if fo can update its accrophidia? It says there that the feds are the weakest military force in the quadrent, but i just saw ds9 again and section31 said that they'd be only 2 powers left in the alpha quadrent , the feds and the roms.
Not the klingons because not only they had internal affairs to deal with but also taking the front lines from the feds and roms destroyed a lot of their fleet.ight have been immune from breen tech. But they were still outnumbered and even without that tech.dom was still as strong as ever. Also the civil war of the klingons in fo doesn't help matters
Not cardies for obvious reasons.
Other a quad powers arent worth noting.

Feds are powerful not only because of their shier number of ships, but also the quality that increased incredibly. Though they lost a lot, when the klingons took over the job of holding 3 empires at bay for several weeks not only enougv time for feds to regain several lost ships, but to also make the feds more powerful then klingons.

Roms because of obvious reasons

This would only require few line changes in the accrophydia game play shouldn't be changed

posted on November 15th, 2012, 11:43 am

Do you mean the apocrypha?

posted on November 15th, 2012, 3:22 pm

Well, in DS9 the Feds took the highest losses of all major alpha / beta quadrant factions and were pretty much the only ones who were completely involved in the war from start to end, plus battles even took place in their invaded territory a lot of times. Romulans just divided a small portion of their fleet, and Klingons had their internal problems going on - basically not using all ships available as well.

The FleetOps story is based 20 years after the war ended. I highly doubt the Federation could have completely rebuild all their vessels in this short period of time, or even just focus on military rebuild, while Klingons obviously always were a highly military driven race and probably won't need to rebuild so much civil infrastructure.
The Federation ships are advanced, but most of them are science vessels, not war machines. It's safe to say the majority of Fed ships are more cannon fodder than a real help in war situations.

I think it's okay to assume that, at least between those three factions, the Federation is "currently" the weakest.


... waiting for Optec / Doca / Dom to post a kick ass post that explains everything

posted on November 15th, 2012, 3:42 pm

Bear in mind that the Fleet Ops timeline is based on the devs' interpretation of how the alpha and beta quadrants might change militarily and politically over a period of a decade or two after Nemesis -- excluding anything that might have happened as a result of Janeway's return.

There have been a number of incidents in the intervening time, only referred to in passing like The Eraudi Incident, and I think the general understanding is that these incidents, along with various other factors have conspired to leave Starfleet looking relatively weak.

posted on November 15th, 2012, 3:48 pm

Apocrypha is just how the Fleet Operations storyline more or less progresses, from a logical and non-Federation biased interpretation of Star Trek, until we release our official timeline .

The Dominion War was more or less a Federation war - hundreds of ships were destroyed, whole battle groups annihilated. All those Mirandas and Excelsiors you saw being the majority of ships in TNG? Mostly destroyed. The Federation threw everything they had into the Dominion War, even their 200 year old starships. Even their infrastructure was attacked and heavily damaged by a bold Breen attack - something that didn't happen to either the Klingons or the Romulans. Furthermore, Federation space is on the border of ex-Dominion space: the Klingons and Romulans both have to travel some distance to get to the battle, and we hear constantly of Federation core worlds being raided and their defense fleets annihilated. That didn't happen to the Klingons or Romulans. The Romulans and Klingons weren't even involved in the Dominion War for as long as the Federation. After the Dominion War, the Federation has many internal problems. Many fringe worlds have become autonomous, and several core worlds have had similar difficulties. Only time will tell ....

The Romulans are just too far away to send more than a handful of ships. Plus, they wouldn't invest much into the Federation's Dominion War anyway. They are still leery of Federation intentions, and it's in their best interest to see a weakened Klingon and Federation empire. If the Federation barely survives, so be it - the Romulans only sent what they needed to to ensure a slim victory. Romulan defense forces are kept within the Empire, to maintain the peace and project strength at the Empire's borders.

The Klingons are, as Kamk stated, a military superpower. We've seen plenty of times that the Klingons have an extremely strong military - more powerful than the Federation, if TNG conflicts and alternate histories are anything to go by - and are a force to be reckoned with. Nevertheless, petty squabbling has led to the decay of the Empire. While the Klingons invested much into the Dominion War, the Empire was never unified during that conflict. Countless military ships were left behind to deal with inter-House rivalries or out of sheer hatred of working alongside those p'tak humans. The Klingon Empire's secondary major weakness is its economy. Unlike the well diversified Federation economy, the Klingon Empire has never been able to successfully deal with a protracted conflict without suffering internal issues. Their main mining centers were destroyed with a single blow to the moon,Praxis, and the economy never really regained its power.

At the end of the day, the vast majority of ships involved in the Dominion War were Federation in origin. We saw but reinforcements arrive from Romulus or Qo'nos. The Federation suffered a crippling blow in the Dominion War and has a lot to rebuild. That's why you see most of the older Federation vessels relegated to the Warp In, while a whole slew of new ships has entered production, mostly to protect the Federation from border skirmishes and pirates.

posted on November 15th, 2012, 4:13 pm

Well i guess so. But then again it depends on what grounds you cont power. The federation is much more advance in almost any form of technology. The klingons have cloak, disruptors and hull but the feds have shields, sensors, and phasors. As well as a better economy and i would bet the klings have about 7000 ships, feds 5000-6000. So i guess it all boils down to what you cont as military power. Feds suffered more, but they were bigger then everyone else. But just pointing out what section 31 said about powers remaining.

Paraphrased "the klingons have lost too many ships, they won't stand tall for a while. Cardassians will be all but forgotten. The dominion will not come on this side of the wormwhole for a whle. Leaving only two powers in the alpha quadrant . The federation and the romulans. Who will obviously go to war. A war i would like to win."

posted on November 15th, 2012, 5:11 pm

The Romulans are just too far away to send more than a handful of ships. Plus, they wouldn't invest much into the Federation's Dominion War anyway. They are still leery of Federation intentions, and it's in their best interest to see a weakened Klingon and Federation empire. If the Federation barely survives, so be it - the Romulans only sent what they needed to to ensure a slim victory. Romulan defense forces are kept within the Empire, to maintain the peace and project strength at the Empire's borders.

I'll apologise in advance for this bit of quibbling, especially in light of what I just said about it being the devs' interpretation of the Star Trek timeline...

But the Romulan Star Empire and the Cardassian Union shared a border. This was why the Dominion were anxious to have a non-aggression pact with them, and why Sisko felt it necessary to draw them into the war, to force them to fight on a second front.

I do like the idea that they would only have sent a fraction of their forces though; very much a Romulan gamble.

posted on November 15th, 2012, 5:34 pm

Like with most things in Star Trek, once the writers start to get too specific for a plot, they start creating internal inconsistency, especially with all their 2D stellar cartography. Because Cardassian space had previously been described to lie on the opposite side of the Federation relative to the Romulan Empire, that DS9 statement is very hard to understand except from within DS9. At the end of the day, plot is the most important component of a Star Trek episode, series, or movie. Fleet Operations tries to create a self-consistent story throughout the series and movies, which often requires changes.