Torpedo misses - an annoyance

[Anonymous]

posted on June 15th, 2009, 8:24 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on June 15th, 2009, 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I've been meaning to post this for a while now, and feel this is as good a time as any.

Seeing that we've been discussing Breen torps, borg torps, fed torps, etc, I was curious as to why there is an absolute 40% chance to miss for torps against destroyers.

On every show and every TV series we have torpedo guidance systems. The systems and tracking miss or lose effectiveness with distance as well as based on the speed of the target.

I was hoping to see something along these lines instead of the absolute 40% to destroyer inaccuracy that torpedoes in general are subjected to.

At this time what I propose is that torpedoes have a 10% chance of missing a close destroyer that is moving, a 20% chance to miss a medium distance destroyer that is moving, and 40% chance to miss a long distance or far away destroyer that is moving. however, if the destroyer is stationary the torp will always hit regardless of distance. (the moving part may not be programmable, so Im fine at least with distance oriented misses).

for a class larger than a destroyer say a cruiser, the chance of miss is 5%, 10%, and 20% respectively. Still always hit if the target is stationary.

For a class such as the battleship, it will always hit.

(of course by class I imply size. for example I do not want the defiant to be hit as much as the sov)

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on June 15th, 2009, 8:32 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on June 15th, 2009, 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

In general against small targets there is a 40% miss rate for torpedoes. In general there is a 20% miss rate against medium targets and in general there is zero miss rate against large targets. However, there are plenty of special torpedoes which have their own unique hit rates versus specific targets. Take the Saber for instance: it gets a 45% dodge rate if I remember correctly until you turn on Hyper Impulse.... which boosts dodge rate much higher.

For your second set of ideas: The moving thing versus stationary may be difficult to implement as miss rates are calculated before the target fires. I think the Team is planning on making a better version of some special "maneuvor" weapons to create an animation for missing torps... but asides from that... dunno. Likewise with distance: would be cool for particular races... although we do have something similar with the Romulan D'deridex Veteran ability (in that it does more damage close up). Not sure how easily those two ideas could be implemented, but they seem interesting. It would definitely make it useful to move your ships around if they could dodge more easily... although I can't say I like the idea about range affecting torpedo miss rate very much, as that would essentialy favor Klingons at present (who already have mostly short range ships with massive firepower).

posted on June 15th, 2009, 8:56 pm

The distance thing might be difficult to program, but moving/stationary would be very easy. Stock has moving/stationary accuracy modifiers in the ordinance files.

[Anonymous]

posted on June 15th, 2009, 9:27 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on June 15th, 2009, 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Agreed. I stand corrected about the absolute miss rate. I only hope it did not change or affect what I was trying to convey. In principle the premise should still make sense on the corrected model as well. 

Also, good point on the klings.

The klings attack by moving in and attacking the opponent at close range. They have higher offense values that are complemented by the torps, and a lower miss of the torp would put them on an equal hitting field against the other guy.
By contrast races which rely more on distance attacks, say romulans for example, would be at a loss since their hits are weaker and the advantage they have is distance.

I may be missing something, but I felt that the kling higher firepower was not compensation for its shorter range, rather its weaker shields and lower systems. Wouldn't the romulan system values and stronger shields be the theoretical compensation for their weaker weapons in front of the klings?

If so, and we do evaluate the face to face combat of the 2, then the stronger shields and system value of the romulans could compensate for the added firepower of the klings.
The long range advantage would then be a reduction of the added benefit of range, instead of a complete loss. Would I be correct in this analysis? please advise.

posted on June 15th, 2009, 9:39 pm

the torpedo hit chance against smaller vessels is reduced, because ECM systems work much more effective on smaller objects then on larger vessels. ECM systems generate sensor echos so virtually for a torpedo guidance system, there are multiple copies of the potential target (a photon would "think" it hits, while it flys by). Therefore the hitchance reduction is reduced based on the size, and not based on the speed or on the class (a defiant has a reduced hit chance, too).

And of course out of gameplay reasons, cause it makes it more interessting. if all weapons would be the same, it would be rather lame we dont have terrain in space, at least leave us the weaponry!

posted on June 15th, 2009, 9:43 pm

but for the klings the weaker shields and system values are also compensating deficiencies. wouldn't that in some way be a counter-balance to that loss?

Maybe, but that would probably require everything to be rebalanced... at least I think so. I mean, the Klings have weaker shields and system values now, but they are balanced at the moment. If everything had to close in range with them to do significantly more damage to them, I have a feeling this would shift strategies away from caring about using ranged units and firing arcs in general. Essentially, for instance, the Saber would be screwed, as it's main advantage is range and 360 degree arc--no one dares follow because it can fire at you from long range. However, if it did even less damage than it did now to deal with this... it would cause problems. Perhaps for a few select units this is a good idea though (just like as I said the Veteran D'deridex had the implementation). Now that I think of it, the Dominion has a few units like this already--the T-15 for instance fires an additional torp at close range. Regardless, as I see it now, the range of a unit is equivalent to weakening/strengthening at a distance--it's just a slightly more definitive adjustement. Perhaps Klingons can fire at long range, but their aiming or power is crap at that distance. Thus they have short/medium range. Repeat ad nauseum. I'd like to hear what the Devs have to say though

//EDIT: oops 

[Anonymous]

posted on June 15th, 2009, 9:46 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on June 15th, 2009, 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

understood. i thought the sabre had beams not torps, so it wouldnt be affected, just the torp shooters like the breen cruiser etc.

in any case, thanks for the clarification guys.

posted on June 15th, 2009, 9:50 pm

Thought you meant distance related damage (generalized) there   

posted on June 15th, 2009, 9:59 pm

ah cool

posted on June 16th, 2009, 8:30 am

Why are the Torps the only thing that misses? Other weapons in the show had their fair share of misses.

posted on June 16th, 2009, 1:01 pm

Pulses can miss too (for special ships) and phasars can miss when targeting ships in inside ship hiding nebulae.

posted on June 16th, 2009, 1:03 pm

Do they miss generic ships that are not hiding?

posted on June 16th, 2009, 1:07 pm

Phasars do not (though it looks really odd when phasars miss anyways).

Pulses will miss ships like the E'Djen for instance (at least that's what the tooltip says: haven't corroborated it with the odf yet...) regardless of nebulae interactions.