Making the Cloaking Generator Effective

posted on February 15th, 2010, 6:40 pm

So I use the cloaking generator, but if someone uses a graviton ping on my cloaked stations they can see them.  Kind of makes the generator useless.  I think the special energy usage would balance out making cloaked stations immune to cloak detect, most stations/miners can't stay cloaked for long anyway.  I wouldn't mind the cloaking generator becoming more expensive or whatever needs to be done to compensate for this, but the cloak is useless for stations that can't move out of the way and escape while cloaked before the ping hits.

"Ha Ha! I've cloaked my station with the moderately priced Cloaking Generator!"

"Ha Ha! I've used my far cheaper sensor station's graviton ping to decloak your cloaked station!" :fish:

-->:)--> --> --> -->:crybaby:

posted on February 15th, 2010, 7:20 pm

-->:)--> --> --> -->:crybaby:

LOL!


    Gimme dem stations!

posted on February 15th, 2010, 7:53 pm

So just making stations unpingable would suffice ... but this is not esthetical at all, as its totaly illogic. 

posted on February 15th, 2010, 8:08 pm

Well, it's possible that the cloaking generator has the power to utilize technology that is beyond the other race's cloak detection, as cloaking and detection are a never ending arms race.  We already have to suspend our disbelief that the cloaking generator is capable of cloaking stations by using the energy reserves of the station in question, even if that station is all the way across the map.  So I feel like there's enough logic there for it to still be convincing.

[mimesot]

posted on February 15th, 2010, 8:20 pm

Last edited by mimesot on February 15th, 2010, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oh, i always understood the cloaking generator as science lab, that researches the stationary cloak in the progress of being built.

Indeed stationary cloaking devices may have access to larger energy sources and thus hide the station more effectivly than every ship could ever do.

I believe the cloaking generator should be renamed to cloakingtechnology-tech-center. Perhaps it couls be enchanced tu research the tavaras cloaking.

What if there was not jst one cloaking generator but many, like turrets. These cloaking turrets could sensorjam the are around them and prohibit enemy's tachyon scan in the vicinity.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 8:51 pm

Sort of like the shroud generators from Command and Conquer, except you turn them on when you want things to cloak.  I really like the system we have now, but I'm not against the idea or anything.  Would the smaller version be able to cloak?  I see it being as strong as a sensor station, and if it can't cloak, then an opponent can just burn it quick and then attack the stations or fleet.  Another question would be whether or not the smaller generators would work for ships in that area, which I wouldn't be a fan of (like the beta 2 cloaking generator).

So it's either easily destroyed, and all your hard work is undone, or it could be exploitable with a defensive fleet.

Now that I think about it, the way I could see it working is you click the small generator, it cloaks itself and everything in its vicinity that is a station or a miner, but doesn't work on ships, if that's possible.  It would be faster than clicking each ship or station, and so long as you can't ping the stations (this is still what I'm really after), then I'd be fine with it.

The only other problem I see with it is you could make 3+ of these, and depending on their price you could make your stations immune to conventional fire for long periods of time this way.  The current system of making each individual station responsible for its own cloak counters that possible exploit.  If it's possible to allow only 1 small generator in any given area, then that would counter it as well.

It's a good idea, if the kinks could be worked out.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 8:57 pm

All seems reasonable to me - I never liked that you could simply decloak these stations so easily. Then again, I don't like the "hand of [insert deity name here]" Graviton Net ability in the first place 

posted on February 15th, 2010, 9:18 pm

i have to agree with dominus, th current system is kinda akward (especially as borg, because you can spam 5 probes and the use graviton ping all the time)

i would like to see this system:
the sensor station gets a refit option which takes away its long sensor range and allows it to deploy a area- cloak (or a stealth field with a really high miss chance).
the ability costs a bit resources to activate (because te cloaking generators are expensive and still experimental) and then consume special energy. you could only refit some of the sensor-stations, dunno, maybe 5 , and only after building a cloaking generator. (the cloaking generator can only support a limited number of  area-cloak stations)

at the cloaking generator you can also then research stuff like bigger range/longer duration for the area-cloak stations, ad other cloak releated researches, like the system uprgrade for the tavara etc.
as mimesot said before, the cloaking generator should be more of a research station.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 9:38 pm

In contrast to Mal (as e himself mentions the chance of exploting this) i am against that area cloaking turrets (well if there was a hard cap it would be different, rught, but i dislike hard caps a want to avaid it everywere possible). A turret, which just prohibits the use of pings and tachyon dedection in an area around it, can't be exploited, and just makes the statunaty cloak work as intended.

The stationary cloak won't last infinitly, so after some time the station will reappear (no matter how many jammer-stations are around) and will be easily destroyed as any station. The meaning of stationary cloak is just to give some time to a station, not to make it invincible.

A nice option is, that you can effectivly hide a cloaked fleet in vicinity of the jammer-turret, so the enemy can't ever know how large your fleet is. This would preserve the romulan sneakyness even if the enemy has 100 probes and a map spamme with sensor relays. 

The cloaking generator, which i suggest to be renamed, should be just a research lab, as said before.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 9:46 pm

Oh, I misunderstood what you said.  You want everything to be as it is now, but add a station that counters tachyon ping in an area.  I think it's the same thing I was saying, except you're adding a station for the function of disrupting cloak detect.

The difference is that your station would protect fleets if they cloaked near a base that had this station, and since fleets can't fire while cloaked, everything is fine. Ok, I gotcha.  Sounds good.

And I get how the cloaking generator should be described as a tech station, as that's what it is.  The turret things sounds like a good idea to me, so long as it doesn't have a huge energy reserve for its own cloak.

[mimesot]

posted on February 15th, 2010, 10:07 pm

Last edited by mimesot on February 15th, 2010, 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I feel glad to concur with you. Thanks!

Why is it a problem, if the jammer has a ping energy reserve? The cloaked starbase/turret will reappear after some seconds (how long does it actually last? dominus, you know all that stuff) and can be destroyed then. If that delay is not ages it can't be much of a promlem, can it?

posted on February 15th, 2010, 10:20 pm

The stationary cloak costs 10 energy per second, and a starbase is 600+ energy, so about a minute.  I guess the energy reserves really don't matter for the anti-ping turret. 

posted on February 15th, 2010, 10:34 pm

This would mean the sarbase cannot be targetted for 60 seconds. That might be imbalanced, as in 1 minute you can most likly recall your fleet for defense. What do you think?

posted on February 15th, 2010, 10:48 pm

Well, that's the whole point of the cloaking generator.   The feds get a station that sends you free ships to anywhere on the map every 5 minutes or so, the Klingons get a station that almost doubles their offensive power for about 10 seconds, the Dominion have massive defensive stations and a station that reveals the map anywhere you've explored before.  So the cloaking generator is supposed to be powerful. 

My whole reason for posting was simply to make the current stationary cloak immune to a graviton ping, that's it.   Because right now there is no reason to even use the station if someone has researched cloak detect.  The point of the generator is to hide your ships so that you can recall your fleet for defense, and in light of the other race's abilities, I don't think it's imbalanced.  You also have to give up on the intel center, one of the best ways of spying on an enemy.

posted on February 17th, 2010, 4:27 pm

Perfectly right. 

I would love to have spme others supporting our idea, or at least countering it.