is proxy yard OP or just annoying?

posted on December 24th, 2010, 5:59 pm

If it gets you the win and is complies with the rules of the game, USE IT!

posted on December 24th, 2010, 6:03 pm

If it gets you the win and is complies with the rules of the game, USE IT!

  The game doesn't have 'rules' .  The 'rules' you're probably referring to are what we call 'fairness and balance' ... of which a strat that completely denies you your main tri moon with no recourse is not one .



  Btw ... let's you and I play a game on Duel II V1.1 (like the tourney).  You'll be Borg and I'll be Dominion ... we'll see how many games you can play before you throw down your controller, yell "fuck this!", and go home (leaving your bag of jollyranchers at my house).

posted on December 24th, 2010, 6:04 pm

Also not as much fun in the long run.

posted on December 24th, 2010, 6:09 pm

we'll see how many games you can play before you throw down your controller, yell "fuck this!", and go home (leaving your bag of jollyranchers at my house).

Why would he be using a controller to play FleetOps? And if he can do it, why can't I? 

But yeah, I'd have to say from seeing it done in replays that proxy yarding right next to an opponent's main tri moon with no penalty is a bit off.....I'm liking Nebbie's idea regarding construction cancellation as it would give people pause as to whether or not to go through with it if you have to invest a bit more....

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on December 24th, 2010, 6:12 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on December 24th, 2010, 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

But if you can't destroy the yard before it's put up, how does having two scouts help?

That way you can watch the build order at the enemy base and still watch important areas so that you should see the yard right as it starts to build. Of course, as you pointed out it will not help against Dominion proxy yards much.
A nerf to proxy yard building would likely fail to address the issue without two scouts tho, since you need to know where it is to use the nerfs to stop it.

To summarize and be less "wall of text"ie: a proxy-yarding nerf or two scouts won't do it alone, but both would probably balance it fine.

EDIT: And I know the multiple free starting scouts (and whether they could be balanced, as balacing is indeed a game of whack-a-mole) was in another thread somewhere, here's the link: Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - starting with 2 scouts

If it gets you the win and is complies with the rules of the game, USE IT!

There is a general (not binding, but kind of a common courtesy thing) rule of using only fair tactics. If a tactic is agreed to be unfair, then it is definitely against the rules to use it, unless the other players in a match agree you can do it beforehand.


And it seems I got ninja'd a little by Boggz.

posted on December 24th, 2010, 6:39 pm

Unless a game has special rules prohibiting proxy-yarding at certain areas of a map, it it fair play.  Because it doesn't exploit any game bugs or features to gain a tactical advantage.

posted on December 24th, 2010, 6:43 pm

It's a feature that was not considered by the devs when making the Dominion unique, and hadn't cropped up as a problem until recently.  It was a feature not intended to be a part of the game.

posted on December 24th, 2010, 7:10 pm

Why don't you just put a set of rules in the guide saying what tactics you are or are not allowed to use even if it seems to be valid.  Make it so that no unintended features are allowed to be used.  If you don't like the tactic, just put it in the guide as cheating!  While you're at it, disallow the use of anything that is considered a weapon.

posted on December 24th, 2010, 7:14 pm

Instead of making rules that people can choose to disobey, why not just fix it so it can't happen?

  Other games have proxy rushes and such, but they all come with distinct downsides and can often cost you the game if you fail.  That's what's missing here

posted on December 24th, 2010, 7:18 pm

A list of cheating/exploits is on the guide, here Etiquette - The Hitchhiker's Guide to Fleet Operations

Opinions of what is 'not liked' on the other hand are avoided as much as possible in order to not cause house rules to crop up, and so that new folks don't have to memorize a whole bunch of 'rules' based on maps, map objects, playing style etc.

posted on December 24th, 2010, 8:33 pm

To be honest, I think it'd be cool to change things up so the starbase not only produces the shipyards (thru the same expansion system that the klin field yard uses) but also make starbases replace mining stations as the resource gather point. It'd replace proxy yarding a single area with convoys and things like that.

Id modded the basics of that (well, the starbase replaces mining stations) into the game before in other mods, it really changes up the dynamic of the game and makes it more intersting.

posted on December 24th, 2010, 11:08 pm

But if you can't destroy the yard before it's put up, how does having two scouts help?    A big issue is that the Dominion can put up their proxy yards so quickly without sacrificing construction at their own base.  Scouts don't really have a part in that.  The issue is that you have no warships to stop them until it's built

Boggz I completely agree with you about the dominion being able to proxy so quickly. however i don't think saying that since dom are unbalanced everyone should get the nerf-bat.

the only race that proxy-yard rush with no real risk is dom, everyone else is going to lose on time on their economy / ship building.

posted on December 24th, 2010, 11:47 pm

Boggz I completely agree with you about the dominion being able to proxy so quickly. however i don't think saying that since dom are unbalanced everyone should get the nerf-bat.

the only race that proxy-yard rush with no real risk is dom, everyone else is going to lose on time on their economy / ship building.

  Who suggested nerfing everyone?

  The Dominion proxy-yard trick is basically theirs alone, so whatever changes to fix it will affect only them.  Don't think I said anything otherwise 

posted on December 25th, 2010, 1:43 am

Why would he be using a controller to play FleetOps? And if he can do it, why can't I? 

joy to key can bind a joypad's buttons to keyboard buttons. maybe an analog stick could be hooked up to control the cursor. so fleetops could be played with a controller, like halo wars on xbox. but it would be crap, like halo wars on xbox.

posted on December 25th, 2010, 1:59 am

  Who suggested nerfing everyone?

  The Dominion proxy-yard trick is basically theirs alone, so whatever changes to fix it will affect only them.  Don't think I said anything otherwise 

sorry didn't mean to imply that, i was speaking of others suggesting that everyones shipyards need to be adjusted.