Dodec sentry buildtime

posted on August 30th, 2010, 3:57 pm

I am talking about maps where your starting moons are quite far from your sb. Therefore the Dodec is not easily spotted unless you have a follow scout on it (only cloakers).

scout more lol. scouting is very important.

- If I do the repair cycle strat as Myles argued, my ships are busy for almost 5min (unless torpedoes)

5 mins? where u get that number. u can finish it in far less time. unless u are attacking it with a sabre and a venture.

so how many torpedo ships do we have with LR on tier 1? Not that many if you ask me...

feds: generally op, most ships work fine. but intreps with their special are turret killers.

Dominion: bombers. only takes a few.

klinks: a veq or two can outrange, and then serve as engine killers later, susa may seem a bad choice as its short range, but has passive which makes it kill buildings.

Roms: torp rhienn spam is fine. in normal games the standard rhienn will outrange, so evne though it does little damage, it wont ever be hit. leahvals will work great too, fly in, smack them with meta d, use auto repair on any ship that gets hit.

you dont need only torp ships to outrange a dodeca. anything that can outrange it can fire at it unopposed. meaning it doesnt matter how weak they are, they have plenty of time to eat it.

Now no more comments about sniping the dodec blah blah blah

i'll comment on whatever i please.

also just because u are not paying attention and get caught out doesnt make a strat op.

a dodeca takes a while to set up. u should be watching your own expansion. u could be forgiven for not watching the middle of nowhere, but this is your own expansion.

posted on August 30th, 2010, 4:22 pm

scout more lol. scouting is very important.

feds: generally op, most ships work fine. but intreps with their special are turret killers.

you dont need only torp ships to outrange a dodeca. anything that can outrange it can fire at it unopposed. meaning it doesnt matter how weak they are, they have plenty of time to eat it.

also just because u are not paying attention and get caught out doesnt make a strat op.

a dodeca takes a while to set up. u should be watching your own expansion. u could be forgiven for not watching the middle of nowhere, but this is your own expansion.

It takes resources to make more scouts, and they only have so much sight range...Don't expect you'll be able to suddenly notice your enemy is building a Dodec relay. IIRC a commentor recently saw a Relay Dodec and thought it was a different module setup, then only later saw it stop the Feds from expanding.

Don't dodecs do more to and take less from Intrepids, or do Dodec relays lose the support ship label?

Outrange? It is long range, so with very very good micro and precision move clicking you can outrange it with long range ships, but that is very difficult and is actually sort of an exploitation of a flaw in the way the game does ranges. I'm not sure if it has ascended bug status, but I would certainly like to see it fixed, rather than continue being able to use it.
There are very few artillery range ships (does Dominion even have an arty range ship? What about Martok?), and Steamrunners aren't even buildable.

It is quite possible to pay attention and still be screwed by this strat.

So have a scout sit in the expansion, while another watches base, and a third watches fleets. That's three scouts minimum. Even if you can manage that before the opponent gets a Dodec with relay module built, you probably won't see it coming until it gets right at the expansion.
I have a feeling the Borg player will build the collective uplink away from the normal ship uplinks, and so your uncloaked scout might be unable to get in sight radius of the new uplink (or it can, but will be micro-intensive to do so.) Even if you have a cloaked scout, you might happen to not be constantly monitoring the enemy base while the constructor slips away for ten seconds (especially if the Borg engages your fleet and you need to micro by telling damaged ships to repair.)
And then that 30 second setup time will be your deadline on sending ships over. And even if you get there with three ships before it's built, it may finish before you kill it.

posted on August 30th, 2010, 4:34 pm

i think someone placed a dode in drr's base and he couldn't fight it off lol...

dode is fine the way it is, in fact dode sensor is horrible. costs 25 supply, cost 15 CC  and it's not THAT powerful.

if you have a good fleet you can take out a dode easily. (dode has 3k hp and without the regeneration, it's like taking out 2 spheres without regeneration - should be easy.)

edit: i just remembered non-regen spheres have about 2k to 2.3k hp; regen spheres have 1.5k to 1.8k hp

LMAO , sounds like a mort strat.

Well if he let his enemy build a dedec turrent in his base then he deserved to lose, he should have had ships, while the dedec turrent is building its very weak.

posted on August 30th, 2010, 4:57 pm

IIRC a commentor recently saw a Relay Dodec and thought it was a different module setup, then only later saw it stop the Feds from expanding.

that was me, in a tourney match i recorded lol.

at the time i was expecting a dodeca as a direct counter to intreps, so wasnt expecting a dodeca to do relay.

Don't dodecs do more to and take less from Intrepids, or do Dodec relays lose the support ship label?

only after its deployed does it lose support ship status, its obvious it cant be a support ship, as its not a ship lol. so dodeca turrets are weak vs intreps just like any turret.

Outrange? It is long range, so with very very good micro and precision move clicking you can outrange it with long range ships, but that is very difficult and is actually sort of an exploitation of a flaw in the way the game does ranges. I'm not sure if it has ascended bug status, but I would certainly like to see it fixed, rather than continue being able to use it.
There are very few artillery range ships (does Dominion even have an arty range ship? What about Martok?), and Steamrunners aren't even buildable.

u dont need very good micro for this. just stay at long range. the second a ship starts firing, stop it from moving. any weak ship can kill a dodeca as long as it's long range.

i dont consider this a bug. i definitely do NOT want turrets of any kind with long sensor ranges. this is fleet ops not turret ops. we can come up with any number of reasons why its weapons can outrange its sensors. increasing the sensor range to be bigger than weapons is really easy.

dominion has the awesome bomber. just like the intrep it has a special which crushes turrets. also if u consider late game they have the HSA.

martok has a different approach to killing stations, instead of staying at long range and pecking you to death, the susa flies in to short range and rapes you with double torps and a passive which makes stations cry.

It is quite possible to pay attention and still be screwed by this strat.

So have a scout sit in the expansion, while another watches base, and a third watches fleets. That's three scouts minimum. Even if you can manage that before the opponent gets a Dodec with relay module built, you probably won't see it coming until it gets right at the expansion.
I have a feeling the Borg player will build the collective uplink away from the normal ship uplinks, and so your uncloaked scout might be unable to get in sight radius of the new uplink (or it can, but will be micro-intensive to do so.) Even if you have a cloaked scout, you might happen to not be constantly monitoring the enemy base while the constructor slips away for ten seconds (especially if the Borg engages your fleet and you need to micro by telling damaged ships to repair.)
And then that 30 second setup time will be your deadline on sending ships over. And even if you get there with three ships before it's built, it may finish before you kill it.

the point isnt about scouting the enemy base, you should be watching your own exp as u should be trying to expand there. if he rushes a dodeca out as his first ships, then u should have more ships than him, and then u can go munch his mining too.

posted on August 30th, 2010, 5:09 pm

Some ppl still dont get the point! I talked about EARLY game! You dont have Torp rhienns or any mid or lategame ships there. And there are times your fleet is not camping at your base (yes there are these times). And in this case a singel dode can end the game for you by deploying at your main Dil or Tri moon stopping you from doing anything useful. While you fight the nasty turret your opponent can do all he pleases...e.g go for that other moon at your main.

posted on August 30th, 2010, 5:15 pm

Some ppl still dont get the point! I talked about EARLY game! You dont have Torp rhienns or any mid or lategame ships there. And there are times your fleet is not camping at your base (yes there are these times). And in this case a singel dode can end the game for you by deploying at your main Dil or Tri moon stopping you from doing anything useful. While you fight the nasty turret your opponent can do all he pleases...e.g go for that other moon at your main.

actually if u spam torp rhienns u can get them out early.

dodeca relay is powerful, but not op, u can stop it. if you let the enemy do a tactically clever move then they deserve a reward of making u get rid of it and suffer.

posted on August 30th, 2010, 5:55 pm

Really I find that Dode turrets suck at defending your own expansion, since they take up so much space they are hard to place and you have to use vinculum module to get the cloak detect (so forget about regen turret), also players tend to only attack Borg miners once they have a good sized fleet (whereas other factions have stronger turrets than miners, thus the turret makes up for miner's low defense.)
Used to stop expansion they are much more powerful (don't need cloak detect so just slap a regen module on) and force the opponent to either kill your attacking fleet or kill the strong Dode.

That's kinda why I prefer to build another assimilation matrix over dode turrets.  Sure, they're bloody expensive, but they don't deplete supply or connections, have serious hp and firepower, and can be used to spit out probes, further reducing the strain on connections if things are tight and I need ships.  The main thing I use dode turrets for is the ping, honestly.

posted on August 30th, 2010, 6:03 pm

I'm with Myles on this with all due respect our the learned colleague Drrrrrr.

Dodecs at your expansion are nasty early, but in my last game where this happened the reason i failed to take it out was a bad start on my part and a good start by my opponent.  If the situation had been reversed then things would have worked out much different, so basically kudos to my opponent.