Descent warp in early in game

posted on April 5th, 2009, 9:26 pm

At this time the feds have low cost structures compared to the other races.
The feds are able to pump out 2 descents by the time the other races can even get a few ships to match.
The descents are warped in and practically free (the cost of the warp in facility excluded).
Is there any specific reason for allowing the feds access to early in-game tav style ships?

the shield regen tends to really pose a problem for early defense of other races. The feds with a few sabres and a descent can really rush with deadly force. repelling this becomes problematic for the other races who actually have to build up an early defense force.

IMO the descent should not be available for early warp in until the level 3 chassis has been researched.

posted on April 5th, 2009, 9:51 pm

Let me guess, you were beaten as Borg Assimilate by Fedies. I think it takes at least 10-15 minutes to get two Descents and enough Sabers to harass effectively. This is not a rush. By that time you should have already been able to build some SCubes to defend. If you play Optimize you'll find that you have more than enough ships to defend against such a strategy (I usually get about 8 Scubes by 10 minutes... maybe even the 10 SCubes that I need to get up to my first Assimilator).

The shield regeneration costs 20 supplies and thus is NOT free. If you target one Saber at a time, instead of spraying out attacks or focussing on the Descents, you'll find that your opponent has to either waste his regeneration on ONE weak Saber or save it for later for his Descents. If he is dancing his Sabers around you, your SCubes are faster than his Descents, and you can send a distraction with a probe, and let your SCubes kill his Descents. Likewise, if you are going to be attacked by Descents, don't go anti-destroyer weapons: use beam modules for at least a few of your SCubes.
Please don't exagerrate, the Descent is certainly not Tavara Style, having 35 defense and 75 offense... not what, around 100 offense and 100 defense before upgrades (I can't remember what the Tavara is off the top of my head...  )?


If you want me to give you advice on how to counter that strategy using other races, I'll gladly spill.

posted on April 5th, 2009, 10:39 pm

even if they get rid of the early warpin, which in my opinon is there only good defence, you will still have to worry about the three other warpin ships

posted on April 5th, 2009, 11:22 pm

the other 3 warp in ships are ok. i dont care about them as they are standard ships.
it's 2 descents with regenerative shields that are an issue.

And it is an issue early in game.

posted on April 5th, 2009, 11:27 pm

However, when you have 9 ships two of which could be multi targeting galaxy classes, even by that time you on, have a chance.  Don't forget akiras.

[Anonymous]

posted on April 5th, 2009, 11:34 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on April 5th, 2009, 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

can still deal with those. the descents however when mixed in the fleet is what tilts the scales.

**Maybe this thread would be better placed in the Game balancing section.

posted on April 5th, 2009, 11:55 pm

Depending on how you play, if you are against the AI borg hard, even the descents don't help when they have 2-3 cubes in 20-30 mins.   I think they should put more of a varitity of ships in the exp warpin, some that are not as strong as the descent.  It would mace the game more intresting and make it where you wern't sure you would get a heavy battle ship.

[Anonymous]

posted on April 5th, 2009, 11:58 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on April 6th, 2009, 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

it was not a borg ai game. it was mltiplayer.


Dom was right that it was a multiplayer, but in his eagerness to preen he missed the entire scenario.
the sabres were useless and taken out easily. However 2 descents were able to take out 4 assimilators with the occasional distraction of an excelsior to draw teh fire a little.

rest assured I am not so fragile as to cry foul just because of a loss and correspondingly start throwing tantrums .

There is a serious issue with the descents coming in early that needs to be addressed as far as game  balancing is concerned.

posted on April 6th, 2009, 12:01 am

Like I said, it is EXPERIMENTAL warpin, maybe you will get something that sucks, and is destroyed easly.  Either way, it would help to make sure that you won't see them as often.

posted on April 6th, 2009, 12:04 am

what does that mean? Descents are stable as far as stats and are always warped in using the second warp in button. Could you rephrase please.

posted on April 6th, 2009, 12:16 am

I mean If the FO team happened to put a few more ships in the warpin, some the equiv. of the defiant, and some with really good weapons that have experimental shields and get destroyed quickly.  If you put weaker ships in the warpin, it would make it harder to get a really good ship like the Descent.  It would also make it more "Experimental"

posted on April 6th, 2009, 12:26 am

I mean If the FO team happened to put a few more ships in the warpin, some the equiv. of the defiant, and some with really good weapons that have experimental shields and get destroyed quickly.  If you put weaker ships in the warpin, it would make it harder to get a really good ship like the Descent.  It would also make it more "Experimental"

Maybe that warp-in could be upgraded with consecutive uses to give a better chance of getting the Descent-class? Say the first warp-in would be 30% chance of Descent, second would be 50% chance, third would be 70%, fourth 90%, fifth 100%, or something like that?

[Anonymous]

posted on April 6th, 2009, 12:31 am

Last edited by Anonymous on April 6th, 2009, 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Maybe that warp-in could be upgraded with consecutive uses to give a better chance of getting the Descent-class? Say the first warp-in would be 30% chance of Descent, second would be 50% chance, third would be 70%, fourth 90%, fifth 100%, or something like that?

That would be cool.  What if after you had the 100% chance it went back down to 30%.  Also what if the Experimental ships weren't always new models, maybe they were ships with upgraded shields, or weapons.  Maybe you could get standard ships with new specials. then you could get the descent and ships like it.  Really like your idea tho SaoMagnifico

posted on April 6th, 2009, 1:10 am

okay serpicus, seeing as you just had to bring it up how fed are to strong in early game, then y dont we make them equal to the others in the later game, how would you like that? then your making the races more alike,

im not acusing you of that but see what your saying, you say that there to strong in ealy game, i disagree, i think there not that strong in early game, i would say that kligons are the best, with easy brel 
kvorts, and with there cloaks, very good to kill early, especislly with feild of fire, however i say that the feds arnt strong enough in the late game,

and personally, you guys should be more afraid of th 3 warpin ships, cus they have more offense,

posted on April 6th, 2009, 1:22 am

"Dom was right that it was a multiplayer, but in his eagerness to preen he missed the entire scenario the sabres were useless and taken out easily. However 2 descents were able to take out 4 assimilators with the occasional distraction of an excelsior to draw teh fire a little."
No I didn't: you specifically stated in your first post that "The feds with a few sabres and a descent can really rush with deadly force." So, in other words, you mean the problem is two Descents (and not A Descent, and not the Sabers).

Anywho, this has so many counters that this should not even be a problem: for instance, you could have teched up instead and not built ONE of the assimilators then (then you would have enough resources to build the research facility since on Directive Assimilate, an assimilator is the same expense as a research facility). Then you would have taken out the Descents in maybe 3 shots (Devastating attack and then Slicer; takes 2 minutes to research I believe). Likewise, you could have made the Assimilators have assimilation beams and taken out the crew. You said you had 4 assimilators, so that would be roughly 15 or so seconds of using the beam to take down the crew I believe. I'm sorry, but you played poorly and you are blaming it on Descents being overpowered instead. I have encountered this strategy before and have defeated it as well.