C-11 too weak?

posted on June 27th, 2010, 4:03 pm

Quite simple, I think that the C-11 is a bit too weak, seeing as it has both lower offense and lower defense than a Bug, and the Bug is such cannon fodder that its ability is to sacrifice itself. I know the C-11 also has low costs and build time, but I think that if made stronger it could get some cost increases.

The main reason I'd like to see it stronger is that supports are the counter to ADAI, which can be found on the most common Fed Chassis 1 ship (Intrepid), the Most common warp-in ship (Excelsior), and the most commonly spammed Dominion ship (Bug.) Unfortunately, the C-11 is Medium range, so the counter is somewhat negated.

I don't want its stats to be very high, maybe a defense value slightly better than the Bomber, and an offense value just over that of a Bug. So maybe 15 Offense 17 Defense 20 System?

posted on June 27th, 2010, 4:11 pm

The main use of a C-11, in my experience, is to increase the range of your fleet.  I'd say that's plenty powerful.

posted on June 27th, 2010, 4:12 pm

It's more resilient than a Bug as I explained in the Tunngle lobby before Just run some tests. The C-11 can beat out the Intrepid 1:1 and if your opponent goes Bugs, your C-11's will slaughter them  

posted on June 27th, 2010, 4:18 pm

True, it would win against Bugs when there are the same numbers of Bugs and C-11s, but you have to build a prototype. Thus there will probably be more Bugs than C-11s. Also Bugs are faster and thus if facing Bugs they will be able to follow you as you retreat, possibly even ramming. Intrepids are also fast, they can easily get microed away to repair without fear of C-11s giving chase.
The stat increase doesn't have to be huge, maybe it could go to 13 Offense 15 Defense 20 System?

posted on June 27th, 2010, 4:20 pm

I'd never field a support solo.  Hook up a c-11 with some bombers, or s-2s, or b-8s.  Or if you're feeling like a total creep, hook them up with t-15s or C-12 Siege Cruisers.  That range boost is a vicious bonus.  Even if you're not micro-kiting, it eliminates almost all firing problems due to positions.

Your enemy has to move to shoot some of your ships, but ALL of your fleet can shoot ALL of his, ALL the time.  It's bloody evil.  The C-11 is the key to what the AI Dominion does in combat.  It makes screen-thick fleets actually able to apply their firepower simultaneously.

I've never captured any Steamrunners, Vellies, or Serkas to see what happens from that ability when used on an Artillery-range vessel, though.

posted on June 27th, 2010, 4:22 pm

You can win when there are more Bugs than C-11s in fact . And yes, you can ram indeed - but that just means the loss of one Bug, which is more costly than a C-11 in the first place  ^-^ . Against Intrepids you will certainly outnumber them with C-11 and Bugs, and an Intrepid spam will very quickly die. If your opponent retreats the Intrepids, you can always bring the fight to him/her and kill mining  ^-^

posted on June 27th, 2010, 4:22 pm

does c11 also increase range of HSA?

posted on June 27th, 2010, 4:30 pm

does c11 also increase range of HSA?

That seems to be a no.

posted on June 27th, 2010, 4:31 pm

You can win when there are more Bugs than C-11s in fact . And yes, you can ram indeed - but that just means the loss of one Bug, which is more costly than a C-11 in the first place  ^-^ . Against Intrepids you will certainly outnumber them with C-11 and Bugs, and an Intrepid spam will very quickly die. If your opponent retreats the Intrepids, you can always bring the fight to him/her and kill mining  ^-^

And if the Intrepids come to the mining, and then do the same easy retreat/repair for Intrepids that lose most of their shields? You can't do the same retreat/repair with the C-11, as it will be easily chased down by the Intrepids and murdered. Also a single phaser platform could really mess up a ship with 10 Defense. I see I'm gonna have to do a lot of testing today.

posted on June 27th, 2010, 4:42 pm

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... I almost destroyed 8 laheavels with 1 hit of cascade feedback! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

posted on June 27th, 2010, 5:23 pm

in my sight the c11 is fine.

posted on June 28th, 2010, 3:56 pm

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... I almost destroyed 8 laheavels with 1 hit of cascade feedback! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

lolwut?

are u playing an old patch again lol.

posted on June 28th, 2010, 4:16 pm

I like the lookz, but the weakness does not doos it justic.

posted on June 28th, 2010, 4:33 pm

i think its fine weak, dont make it so similar to all the other supports. the dominion have good early game already.

posted on June 28th, 2010, 5:14 pm

try it. 6 c-11s vs 5-7 laheavels with a few bugs as support