AI - Instant Action (Dominion)

[John1337]

posted on June 26th, 2011, 7:09 pm

Last edited by John1337 on June 26th, 2011, 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WTF!!!!

What have you done with the AI???? I played Federation with normal AI friend .. Borg ... haha! :p.

Teams:
Klingons - 1x Hard, 1x Normal
Romulans - 1x Hard, 1x Normal
Dominion - 1x Hard, 1x Normal

... the whole f***ing hard Dominion AI killed all ... inclusive me ... it´s like ... I chose mhhh, hard: ... no, mhhh ... merciless: ... no, mhhh ... f***ing hardcore raping me-AI: ... YES!

The AI got hundreds of ships ... and quite instantly attacking me ...... I was ... jeez ... SCREWED!

Any error in this AI selection with the Dominion maybe?

Best regards,
John1337

EDIT:
btw ... any mistake by me with these settings?

Attachments

posted on June 26th, 2011, 7:20 pm

dont play AI games...or live with what you get there.

posted on June 26th, 2011, 7:22 pm

dominion ai is strongest because of their economy.

no ai can effectively get supply, they will eventually run out and they cant mine it effectively (its too complicated) and they wont ever buy it at a starbase (they dont support that feature i believe). so to solve this the devs give all AI players an income of supply per second. its a huge income of supply, so the ai will almost certainly not run out. try be an observer on a match with a computer and watch its res count.

all dominion ships cost less dil/tri and more supply. but as you can see dominion ai has loads and loads of supply, so basically all dominion ships are dirt cheap for ai, hence they spam you out of existence.

ps ignore drrrrrr.

posted on June 26th, 2011, 7:24 pm

Generally Klingon and Dominion AI are quite powerful, but they are beatable - you just may have to turn down the strength on them on occasion . As far as I know, the AI numbers have not been changed for a number of patches now, so perhaps it is your map choice?

posted on June 26th, 2011, 9:43 pm

The strength of the AI varies greatly by map.  Klingons are fierce on small maps because they spam ships.  Dominion and borg are deadly on large maps because the dominion don't lose their prototypes and the borg just sit in their base until they have a massive armada.

I usually test maps by playing with AI handicap set between 1.8 and full.  After all the Hard AI gets its ship costs reduced to 1/10 so that brings it up to 1/5 I believe.

All the AI can do is build ships, but it CAN build them faster than you no matter what you do.  You must continually engage the AI and kill their ships without taking any losses yourself.

posted on June 27th, 2011, 9:04 am

ps ignore drrrrrr.

OK! :p

All the AI can do is build ships, but it CAN build them faster than you no matter what you do.  You must continually engage the AI and kill their ships without taking any losses yourself.

I´m one of these guys who builds a defense, sit there and watch the enemy dying ... but the Dominion ... never gussed this when playing Instant A. :S was really strange

The strength of the AI varies greatly by map.

[...] so perhaps it is your map choice?

Played Blue Amber

try be an observer on a match with a computer and watch its res count.

I´ll do

btw: thx for the answers

posted on June 27th, 2011, 1:22 pm

I don't play many AI games, but when I do I find the Romulan AI hardest. Especially their amount of Serkas vessels and their ability to cloak out quite effectively makes them very tough. You shouldn't turtle against the Dominion AI. Slaughter their ships from the beginning and it will be a nice Bug massacre. Simply don't let them get a large yard.

posted on June 27th, 2011, 4:08 pm

Just wait until the devs make the Serkas even more powerful...

posted on June 28th, 2011, 2:59 am

Aye I find dominion to be a very strong AI as well as Klingons. Weakest is by far the Federation. I dont know why but the Feds hardly put up a fight.

posted on July 26th, 2011, 3:09 pm

Fed AI seems to be not so strong in Early and Mid Game, at late game the Feds can be hard to eliminate, but they need time to expanse. The Dominion AI is the strongest IMHO of all Races. I think it the reason was described in this thread.
To win against all Dominion AI's above Hard as well against Merciless AI's you need to take out it's resource collection. The longer you don't attack the AI the stronger it will get. For the Dominion it will be hard if the AI is building S-7 and Breen Battleships. At latest this is the time to attack the Dominion which will be most effective with Klingons and Romulans as they have Cloack Device. Just gather a Force of 6-8 Battleships and attack the AI's resource points and destroy the mining stations and the freigthers.

posted on July 26th, 2011, 3:54 pm

If the Dominion AI gets a large yard, you're not fighting them correctly.  The way to kill the dominion AI is to snipe its prototypes as it builds one of each ship.  If you're waiting until they have S7 then no wonder you're having a hard time.

I find the Klingon AI to be the best for practice.  It spams small ships and lets you practice starting builds and early game tactics against a variety of ships.  The other races tend to attack late and their ships come in a trickle (serkas spam ftw)

The borg AI is much harder than the dominion, because it keeps its ships together and then rolls you all at once.

posted on July 26th, 2011, 4:07 pm

try be an observer on a match with a computer and watch its res count.

I second this.   You'll begin to notice "patterns" with the AI, from that point it's fairly easy to waste them (even the Merciless AI).

A prime example would be the Borg.   If you notice their main fleet will sit at their base until they have acquired "x" amount of each type of ship (4-5 assimilators seems to be one "trigger" IMO).  The other AI are the same, there's just a larger mix of ships...which makes determining the triggers more difficult.

Your goal playing any AI should be to keep them building replacement warships, and destroy spam-stations (any building yards) whenever possible....which unfortunately is extremely difficult with the Dominion, Romulans, and Klingons.  

Your best bet is to constantly level-up your fleet on their mining operations, and pick-off warships when they are "wandering" around the map.  Eventually, you will hit critical mass with your fleet, where you can roam around and systematically destroy AI targets at-will....while the AI randomly runs around the map looking for targets.

Generally, the Dominion is strongest on large maps (where time and distance give them extra build time), Klingons (mid-sized maps), and Romulans dominate small maps (because they go straight to Serkas & Warbird spam).

Sniping an AI starbase (before they build any others) will effectively kill the AI.  It doesn't know what to do without the original StarBase for some reason.  Killing Dominion prototypes also seems to keep them confused.

posted on August 21st, 2011, 10:56 am

A few versions ago I was testing an edit of the rts_cfg file (where the defualt build cost % handicaps are stored for each level AI) and managed to get the AI to not be too silly while still putting up a fight.

It's doable, but just takes time to test it out, and while fleet ops may actually have SP these days (it used to not support SP) no real work is put into making it playable, and considering the ammount of hostility put towards any attempt to fix SP (in my case, two threads just asking for people to test a modified file both reached 4-5 pages of people flaming the idea) I doubt it will be seriously discussed or fixed......

posted on August 21st, 2011, 4:15 pm

That is because you tried to solve the problem by just editing the costs for the AI.
The AI will spam less after fixing the costs for their ships. But the mainproblem are not the costs but the behavior.
The AI just builds everything it can by following a strickt path in tech and building. If some conditions not reached (after ships are destroied) it will jump back to match the conditions. And if realy getting the ass kicket the ai will be completly out of its behavior and will break down (just kill all ships of an AI , even the miners and builders but leave the base alone, and see what happend, the AI will stopp producing combatships while having more then enough recources).

You talked about your idea if it would solve all problems while it is just a litte workaround or hotfix.
And you delivert no mod but just numbers everybody should edit on its own.
Now the moddinginterface is much better. Make a Hotfixmod for AI games and upload it. And say what feedback you need. I will play it. But I won't edit numbers in my own game .

But what we realy need is a complete redo of the AI, what is on the todo list but with low priority. At first the balance, the fractions and all features are on todo. Just to get the base of the game ready. Then AI and a SP are on the list.
It won't make sense to make now a new AI when not all ideas are in the game so that you have to redo the ai again.

posted on August 21st, 2011, 5:26 pm

Optec does and has spent a considerable amount of time making the AI enjoyable - what we have now is supposed to be a challenge. Next patch will include some more improvements for AI fleet management to that end