Ship Break Up

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 12:27 am

I suppose, but it would implode, not expand

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 12:30 am

Likewise, it is highly unlikely that the atmosphere would escape in such a manner as to be condusive to a spherical fireball (yes I am aware that is redundant). There are some good NASA demonstrations on zero-g fires... though not too much on fire in a vacuum 

Yea physics.

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 4:58 am

Romulan vessels have a quantum singularity drive which is a small black hole. so if the vessel was destroyed wouldnt it implode...

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 6:10 am

what we need, is a system of damage to coincide with visual, as well as operational damage, ima make a new topic, because this idea isnt complete yet, however

it entails havig (where your green circles with the numbers are that talk to you about the operational stuff) 3 levels of color, green, yellow, and red

when its green and at 100 percent, its fuly operational, when its green and at 50 percent, it has 50 percent power, so for instance weapons would be at half power, when its in any range of green, minor damage, 1 or 2 visable damage slight "spuuters: from systems under attack, this is able to be repair by crew, it slowy counts back from what ever level its at to 100 till is fully operational again

at yellow, depending on system, it can be ofline or slightly operational, at this level, life support is operational till about 30 percent till a small number of crew start to die,(very slow rate), weapons, pahser only, operational till 70 percent, engines have very slow speed till 50 percent, then only manuvering thrusterts till 30 percent, sheilds, are down, sensors, the ark will slowly drop but still slight operational(in a small circle) till it gets to red, aanything from......... hmm for now i will say 70 percent of yellow, and up can be repair by crew, at 70-100 percent on yellow, there is some visual damage, sheild buckling, more sputters from system(such as engines not always working, for a milisecond)
70 percent and down only repairable by repair ship (crew can repair anything below 70, by only 10 percent, and can also repair life support to functioning level, however lower life suport= less fast repair) anyway, repair ship needed, more visual damage, slight hull breaches, maybye lighting fluxuation, small plasma leak

at red, nothign is operational, only life support can be repair to minimal levels, repair ships can only tow ship back, with engines not working, ship is "adrift" ship has to go back to repair yard, for its "extensive repairs" (could cost di), (and this is where refit could be nice for feds, and maybye others, as an upgrade/ overhaul from battle damage) anyway, massive system sputters, but none are left, lol, i know so bascially, light fluxuations, massive "scorch marks"" such as black spots, major hull breachs, such as a section of the ship missing, saucer is no longer a circle, an engine is missing, warp plasma leak, ship is on fire, maybye a few small internal explosians (if posible), for massive damage, such as 4 out of 5 in red, or all red, a ship can have MAJOR expolsians, such as half of the ship exploding, then the still living piece can be towed back for extensive repairs

well thats about it, if some of the visual damage isnt doable, well, im sure the operational, and green yellow red system is, and id think itd be a very nice element to add

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 7:43 am

while it would be great if this game had fewer units i think it is too micro intensive. in a game with battles in excess of 30 ships or so the player doesnt really have time to focus on stuff like that.  besides the system works in a similar method now.

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 11:08 am

Sry still stuck on the fireball thing

Romulan vessels have a quantum singularity drive which is a small black hole. so if the vessel was destroyed wouldnt it implode...

Wouldn't a "black hole" suck everything in, there causing an implosion? Either way Black hole = no light which = no  fireball

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 11:34 am

yeah i guess that would be kinda boring.

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 1:49 pm

Well you would still see most of the explosion, just none of the implosion.

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 4:07 pm

Wouldn't a "black hole" suck everything in, there causing an implosion? Either way Black hole = no light which = no  fireball

You're half right! A black hole would suck in everything in it's vicinity, if it's speed is lower than the escape velocity. But it everything that is too slow is not settled beyond the event horizon in the first place. As the object falls towards the event horizon, the tidal forces will strengthen until first the vessel, then even the atoms will be ripped apart until there is nothing but energy left. That energy will partly escape the black hole. Secondly while being sucked up by the black hole, the ship will start to rotate around the black hole, if it had a initial tangential velocity. This will increase, when it gets closer to the event hotizon. In the end it will be spinning enormously fast and again emitt energy. So it's not a silent but certain death.

Btw.: It's not clearly decided yet, if a quantum singularity is necessarily a black hole (in the sense of black, but still a gavitational hole). There are (but I hardly know anything about those) solutions (not said that the really appear in nature) of rotating systems, that will cause the event horizon to shrink beyond the surface of the singularity, which would expose it, possibly as light-emitting phenomenom.

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 10:51 pm

Well, since the singularity powering Romulan ships is small enough NOT to have gravitational effects on the ship even though it is inside it (though it did cause some problems on DS9 for some explicable reason...), I think it is safe to say that nothing will get dragged across the event horizon (except matter/energy that is really close to the singularity). Though this is Startrek... and therefore physics is usually... disregarded somewhat 

posted on April 4th, 2009, 12:16 am

well, diricome, if you think about it, its not that micro intensive, besides, the system now doesnt even mean much, the point of my system, is in part system and damage syncronization, and also, for battles to not be so much of a send in all your ships, whoever looses all of there ships looses, this is making it a more, okay he was more powerful but you were able to damage his fleet as a whole, enough to hold them off, and to come back after the battle, and salvage your ships, becaue the whole point in part, is to count a ship as dead, before it explodes (maybyea 50-50 chance) because seriously, if you have there weapons and some other stuff down, you dont need to worry about wasting time on the rest, my system insurses some survivors, making sure that tho you may of lost a major battle you can bring in your repair ships repair what ships you can,and the rest you tow back for refit and repair, so say you attacked with 30 ships, but 2 you pulled out fine, 4 had mainly yellow damage(but at that time were not considered a threat), and you were able to tow back 3 for refit and repair,(small cost maybye) thats 9 ships you didnt loose

see heres what i think should happen, after ships hit a certain point of damage, or certain number of systems inoperable, there is a chance that either that ship cannot be attacked, or that itll will be destroyed, if its to be destroyed, it blows up however a theres s 40-60 chance that some will be salvageble, for major repair, if it detrimines cannot be attacked it cant be attackied, until it gets back to green, (you could make towing ships no attackable) basically in part my whole idea, is to make it more realistic, by minimizing the total losses, while the battle may be lost, and no ship left to fight, you can still bring a few ships out and repair them and put them back into battle as strong more expirience ships

posted on April 4th, 2009, 2:52 am

I was just saying that there would be no fire ball. Even with the singularity drive.  We wouldn't wan't mini holes (black or not) appearing everything A romulan ship blew up. you might see gasses escaping, cumbusting, and causing small esplosions, therefore breaking the ship apart.  Definitly not the fireworks you see now.  However, a burst of light, visible gamma radiation, whatever, you might see these.  The ships engines are what cause the explosion, if I'm not mistaken.  The ship doesn't burst in to flames. Even Anti-matter wouldn't explode the way we see it now.  I'm just saying there are no fireballes in space, the VACUME, of space.

posted on April 4th, 2009, 6:44 am

Hmm lets just go with the effects from Star Trek. Also in star trek most ships are not blown up (well as long as they are not the bad guys) so i see your point ray but i think the mods decided that it was better for gameplay if the ships just blew up.

[mimesot]

posted on April 4th, 2009, 3:52 pm

Last edited by mimesot on April 4th, 2009, 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

@Dircome

But maybe the mods had just other things more important to think of until today. I don't believe that they have already activly decided against a model where ships are dead without exploding.

But there is one severe reason that makes me believe that an explosion is most likly as the energy support is disabled: The federation uses antideuterium-tanks, where the anti'matter is kept in magnetic fields. These are creatid by simple electrical coils and need current to function. Even if they are of supra-conductors, the cooling of those will fail after some time, the supra-conductors will loose their beneficial property due to warming, thus the magnetic field will break down. The result will be that the anti'matter gets into contact with the walls and you get an explosion, that exceeds any power that was released in battle by far.

For romulans, who don't utilitize a-matter for energysupply, things will look quite different. Though it is most unfortunate when the quantumsingularity touches any matter.

An possible solution for a ship to die without an explosion is to eject all tanks before dying (which is not very likly). So it's most unrealistic to go with all effects from star trek.

@Adm. Zaxxon
It depends on what you define as fireball. If it is "Matter is blasted away, because it is heated by radiated energy" a ship that falls into a black hole will certainly die in some kind of fireball, though it is shaped in a very strange way.

A q-singularity in a romulan vessel is certainly not one, that is sizable enough to suck in the ship. But it is still a dangerous projectile.

As we are talking about the fireballs - the current one is beautiful but not very realistic too.

posted on April 4th, 2009, 6:33 pm

guys, it wouldnt be as cool if there wernt explosians