specific effective mixed fleets

posted on March 5th, 2011, 4:34 am

(someone with a better grip on this should write this!)

Tactic: A lower defense ship, with a defensive passive covers for a higher defensive ship with a higher offensive output but a defensive weakness.

In this example, Spectres (def: 29, =15% torpedo dmg) are covering for Norexians (def: 32, large; 'weak' vs torpedo) vs a Federation (generally high use of torpedoes) opponent. Because of ships auto-targeting lower defensive value ships, the Spectres take the brunt of the Fed attack, but shrug off a percentage of the damange, leaving the Norexians unscathed and free to whoop-ass.

A Fed example of this would be to use Intrepids (def: 20, ADAI +30% def vs med) in your fleets of Akiras(def: 28)/Excelsior IIs (def: 32) vs Borg (predominately medium range ships). 


Or Monsoons(def: 18, High Density Shield Generators: -50% dmg from long range) + Excelsior IIs vs Excelsiors IIs (long range).


Or A-20 "bugs" (def: 11, ADAI +30% def vs med) + S-2 (def: 18) vs K'beajQ (medium range).


(ok - someone save me here before I make myself out to be a fool. It seems to me that Fed and Romulans have more options in this space as they have more lower defense ships with defensive passives. Dominion have very little. Borg and Klingons don't have this at all)

posted on March 5th, 2011, 4:41 am

I added an abbreviated section about this tactic around 4 weeks ago - perhaps you think it needs expanding?

General Strategies and Tactics - The Hitchhiker's Guide to Fleet Operations

posted on March 5th, 2011, 4:52 am

I think specifics and examples help. Watching Boggz pull it off really opened my eyes. But then again, that could just be how I learn.

posted on March 5th, 2011, 6:59 am

Actually in reference to Roms and Klingons I did mention the use of that in my tactics threads for each race.


  Klingons

 
Klingons don't have defensive passives per say, but they have the KBQ.  The KBQ has proven itself over and over to be almost indispensable simply because it will tank for any Klingon warship besides the B'rel and K'tinga. 

  Part of the reason why Klingons suffer late game (besides the supply issue) is due to the fact that, once you can no longer micro your ships out of battle with cloak, you have no damage-reducing passive that will automatically soak up fire like Bugs or Monsoons.  Thus the Klinks are an early game faction .


  Dunno if the Rommie Tactics thread I made mentions as much about auto-targeting and tanking, but Rhienns with Phase Plates and Leahvals with Auto-repair do effectively the same job until the appropriate Generix can take over and cover for the Warbirds.

posted on March 5th, 2011, 4:02 pm

I of course assume that you are not leaving out the Vor'cha, Vutpa', or LuSpet

In discussing the topic with Yandon last night I expanded the section on the guide a bit more, though like it says there - these are only general comments meant to illustrate the topic, rather than to tell you which ships to use: Tanking

posted on March 5th, 2011, 6:32 pm

I of course assume that you are not leaving out the Vor'cha, Vutpa', or LuSpet

  Would never forget my buddies the heavy cruisers .  Like I pointed out in the little tactics guide, those ships will rarely absorb auto-targeting fire for you, so their defensive passives don't always do their job like a Monsoon or an Intrepid will .

  So yeah, you're right .  But they just don't function quite the same way.  If you're Martok and rich though, a fleet of Vutpa / Vorcha vs. Feds is AWESOME

In discussing the topic with Yandon last night I expanded the section on the guide a bit more, though like it says there - these are only general comments meant to illustrate the topic, rather than to tell you which ships to use: Tanking

  Cool 

posted on March 10th, 2011, 11:24 pm

If I remember correctly Boggz, you pointed out that a Vutpa would be a bad tank for Vor'chas, since Vor'chas are the ones' that should take damage. Most the time you are right, but I had a game facing many Sangs, I built a mixed fleet of Vutpa/Vor'cha against it - wonderful. The Vor'chas were useful against the teammates of my enemy(and of course against the Sangs, too. It's still a nice disruptor they got there.), while the Vutpas covered them against the Sang fleet.

posted on March 10th, 2011, 11:27 pm

You're right!

  I hope in the Klingon Strategy Thread I didn't make that mistake.

  Vorcha are baseline units that tank very well (especially against short range).  Vutpa are not tanks themselves unless they are up against torpedo-heavy units.  I think I mentioned it in there, but yes, you're correct .  Vutpa don't tank well for Vorcha UNLESS (<----- notice the UNLESS in caps ) you are facing large numbers of Sang / Excel 2 that do well against Vorcha.

posted on March 12th, 2011, 9:35 am

Ah, you're right, I overlooked that one. It have been some weeks since I read it, so be proud that I remembered your Vutpa part in the first place .

posted on March 19th, 2011, 10:47 pm

Right before my computer crashed I was experimenting with a crazy Romulan strategy along these lines:

It only works in a 2v2 or bigger with a klingon ally.  You play as Helev and move immediately into generix, then get a mixed tech yard and start the research.  You need to get tri mining first to do it right.

Helev's un-upgraded Generix are cheap and have incredible firepower, but you have to be super careful to keep them alive.  Your Klingon ally will need to mass Kbeajq in order to tank for you and keep you safe.

By producing only regular Generix, you can easily save up enough funds to build a second mixed-tech yard and have 1200 Di by the time the research finishes.  You immediately start spamming Saehirs from both yards.  Your first pair comes out around the 7 minute mark I believe, and if you can secure 1 Tri, 2 Di moons you can pump continuously from all 3 yards.

Saeihrs are the most offensive-oriented ship in the game: with its special active a Saeihr has 50 offense at long range and 18 defense.  Keeping them alive is a huge challenge, but if your generix can screen for them they can deal tremendous damage, especially to small and short-range ships (they have FTC).

As soon as you can, research Generix Supports and refit your generix with the most ranks.  The weapon disable and shield recharge will become critical in keeping your glass cannons alive.

---

So that's the strategy, unfortunately I didn't get much chance to test it.  I had thought that generix would be better than rhienns because then your entire fleet is long range, but now I'm not so sure.  Saeihrs do almost full damage to monsoons, decent damage to ambassadors...MASSIVE damage to brels...

I really wish I had more of a chance to test this strat, I think it could really work well.  Of course the current Saeihr is "broken" because its projectile guns don't follow pulse rules, so when the next patch comes out large ships like B5's will become much more deadly against it.

posted on March 21st, 2011, 1:17 pm

Nice to see someone experimenting with mixed-tech.