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T-Man
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2006, 09:33:06 PM » |
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And you say that the Borg Queen IS the collective, and that if we destroy her, we destroy The Collective, but how many times now have we seen her die? Gosh, I can't keep count. It wasn't until the last episode of Voyager, that we finally dealt a smashing blow to them, seeing the Borg Queen fall apart at the limbs, the Unicomplex exploding, and Voyager destroying 1 out of 6 transwarp hubs in the galaxy. I'd say that dealt the biggest blow yet. IMO, The Borg Queen we see is merely a shell; a host for her conciousness. Her actual conciousness, or "spirit" if you will, is part of the collective, formed from the orchestra of minds as one commanding prescence, the source of all commands. Because of this, her experiences and memories form part of the collective, and thus will survive if her body is destroyed at any point. This is why the Queen was able to return after First Contact; the shell was destroyed, but her conciousness (or at least all of it stored prior to her temporal jump) remained within the collective and was transfered into a replacement shell; a genetic clone of the Queen's previous shell. Essentially, unless the entire collective was anihallated at once, the Queen is immortal, as would be any other Borg figureheads (like Locutus), even if their ship was seperated from the collective (all of their experience up to the seperation would remain, and thus the leaderless drones could clone a replacement queen). Nevertheless, i do agree that the collective is not having a great time of it at the mo; the Unicomplex is gone, Species 8472 have become resistant to the nanoprobe weaponry (thanks to voyager), and the Unimatrix rebellion is causing civil war throughout the collective. Their empire is on the verge of collapse, though i'm sure the Queen will find some way to adapt to this and help the collective return to its former glory. However, i doubt the Borg would try any major invasions for a little while; they need to focus on the Delta Quadrant. |
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« Last Edit: October 30, 2006, 09:36:53 PM by T-Man »
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Fullphaser
Star Fool
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« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2006, 05:23:35 AM » |
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But you have to remember for all the damage they have suffered, The borg still had a massive empire to begin with, and they weren't stretched out. I wouldn't be surprised if the Borg have come up with some adaption to 8472 weaponry at this point. I mean they have had several years. Also Unimatrix Zero One drones did have a few ships, but maybe only 50 out of potentially millions.
And finally I doubt that blow to the unicomplex was really felt. I mean we are talking a minor structure in the long run.
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Acidpunk
Formerly 4 of 11
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« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2006, 02:44:41 PM » |
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to be honest i never get where this idea that the borg were crippled from its aload of crap
The Unicomplex wasnt a big deal at all it can be rebuilt in less than a few months knowing the borg,
The transwarp gate they still have more of them and could easily rebuild it
And the virus i bet they adapted pretty damn fast
in all i reckon the borg were back to full strength in 6months maybe less
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Barrok Nor 00539
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« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2007, 05:04:07 AM » |
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As far as the "how did they come into being?" question i know we all hav, my opinion, they were a dieing race, due to some disese, or if u remember the Evolution episode in TNG, it's posible that the race thought it was dieing off, and created some machines or in terms we all wil understand, robots, to "continue their legasy" witch was programmed to atain perfection. Then they saw the only way to complete the seemibly unatainible goal, was to "use" other races, and also tru as others hav said, the unimatrix wasn't that big of a deal, for example, Q sent them to the delta quadrent, thus starting this chain of events, it was not the freighter thingy that the borg assimilated and sent a message with,[/b] notice, the borg didn't find the humans as a threat at the first contect, with that ******* Q. If the borg had accualy recieved that transmission, they would hav destroied them on the spot, takng the entire colective and wiped out Earth before they even had a chance to comission Voyager, therefore the humans wouldn't hav done the dammage it did to the unimatrix; that, and the fact that spieces 8472 would wipe out practicly everything else, and if you remember, the 8472 cell structure was 20x the human cell structure, so they probably only needed a .77659% more complexity asesend,(much like the anchents in Star Gate, i know i know different scieres) and if they did, they would be on mere phases away from the power the Q's did, I still think those bastards Q, Q, Q, Q, Q, Q, Q, Q the Q council, q and q :omg: :omg: (lower case meaning that they are not fully Q, and that they r said in ahight pich  , taken from the book series of Star Trek Titan ) (FYI the only 11 u ever see and the 2nd q is Q's son lol) were human like in the begining, with NO power at ALLL!!!! let's bring some R's into the situation, too meny Q's, any want to bring in any other letters of the alphabet? BTW would A or Z be the highest? i'm not sure? |
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2007, 05:08:35 AM by Barrok Nor 00539 »
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eoraptor
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« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2007, 09:47:45 PM » |
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*bangs head off desk* i know that i read a book somewere a realy realy good one that talked about it, but i cant remmeber now?! i keep thinking the 3 shatner books but i that was more mirror i think, been to long. no, you're thinking of Vendetta, one of the first TNG novels... one of my faves too from my Jr highschool days... it basically says that there was a war between the two ancient races in the galaxy, the (insert race name I can't remember here) race that seeded the galaxy, and were largely a race focused on diversity; and the race that became the borg, who wanted sameness and perfection. The first race, the seeders, created th e planet killer as seen in TOS as a doomsday weapon against the borg I too would like to see an explanation on where the Borg actually came from, and thier homeworld, if it even still exists. but IMHO, as is already expressed here, Voyager pretty much put the nails in the coffin that was the borg as a scary antagonist. and when Akiraprise came along and said that they could *ahem* cure borg nanites in the ealry twenty-second century? say goodnight gracie. Much maligned as it is, Legacrap has some interesting ideas about the Borg' Origins as well... as do a few shatner novels (the second and third from his first trilogy, whoes names also escape me now) |
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 I find your lack of punctuation.... disturbing. |
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Admiral Adama
have you done 127 in a jeep? thats right
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« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2007, 11:10:09 PM » |
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they kept adding to that trilogy and it now has like 20 books,
right now they are on a mirror kirk thing
FYI-THERE IS NO CANNON INFORMATION AS TO THE BEGGINGS OF THE BORG
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Why battlestar galactica is better than star trek:  Can't do that in a Sov. |
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Fullphaser
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« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2007, 04:37:17 AM » |
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they kept adding to that trilogy and it now has like 20 books,
right now they are on a mirror kirk thing
FYI-THERE IS NO CANNON INFORMATION AS TO THE BEGGINGS OF THE BORG sure there is, we can assume with some reasonable integrity that they started in the Delta quadrant. |
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RedShirt
Per Philosophia, Clarus. Per Clarus, Veritas.
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En Veritas, Voluntas.
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« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2007, 08:09:57 PM » |
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Novels which, on many occasions, do a better job than the shows...
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"Freedom of speech is an American concept, so i don't give it any value."
~ Dean Stacey, investigator for the Canadian Human Rights Commission.
He heard the case against journalist Mark Steyn. Steyn was accused of offending Muslims.
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Admiral Adama
have you done 127 in a jeep? thats right
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« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2007, 02:31:11 AM » |
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shatner hints that the probe from the tos movie was from the borg
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Why battlestar galactica is better than star trek: Can't do that in a Sov. |
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eoraptor
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« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2007, 04:40:00 AM » |
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shatner hints that the probe from the tos movie was from the borg that's a pretty common theory... there's another similar idea [spoiler]in Legacrap that V'Ger not only traveled to the Delta Quadrant, but also back in time, and thus was the origen of the borg, creating them as avatars after the machine lifeforms upgraded it[/spoiler] |
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I find your lack of punctuation.... disturbing.
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Admiral Adama
have you done 127 in a jeep? thats right
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« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2007, 03:18:34 AM » |
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how did it travel back in time?
(mayby thats why humans are the only race to not be completely assimilated by the borg when they came for them-they are the cause of the borg)
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Why battlestar galactica is better than star trek: Can't do that in a Sov. |
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eoraptor
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« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2007, 04:03:32 AM » |
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how did it travel back in time?
(mayby thats why humans are the only race to not be completely assimilated by the borg when they came for them-they are the cause of the borg) Remember, V'ger fell through a black hole... a place that warps space and time so powerfully that light itself cannot escape.. That's what the game says anyways... and who can really say what would happen who something that fell though a black hole and survived. |
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I find your lack of punctuation.... disturbing.
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Admiral Adama
have you done 127 in a jeep? thats right
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« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2007, 12:34:48 AM » |
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it also pulls apart vger because of gravity so its not realy a good explanation
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Why battlestar galactica is better than star trek: Can't do that in a Sov. |
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Saijen
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« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2007, 08:01:51 AM » |
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Well who would've thought that they would finally shed some light on this matter.
For those that have played the newest Star Trek game that was released, Legacy, in the extras section of the main menu in that game, there is an option titled, "Origin of the Borg".
In the game, starting from Archer's timeframe and moving forward, the main plot is basically to chase down a Vulcan scientist named Trel. She somehow takes control of the Borg, without being assimilated (it never shows if she is so I could be wrong, but the further the game progresses, the more "borg" her ship appears).
The above titled extra feature in this game is narrated by this, Trel, and supports alot of what people think about the "probe", from Star Trek TMP. It does not fully speak about the whole cloud thing that we saw in the movie, but there were concept art pictures of it, shooting beams at StarFleet ships.
Anyway, the story goes as told by Trel, a race of machines intercepts a long lost Human satellite that had drifted out into space far off its course. They, "assimilate", for lack of a better term, the satellite, and learn of the race of Humans. The knowledge contained within this probe inspires (I know machines don't feel inspiration, so just bear with the way I word this) them to seek out knowledge of other races, somewhat similar to the goal of our human exploration. However the machines take it upon themselves to "force" this knowledge into their being. They create "drones", made in the image of what they knew to be Human, but still vastly superior and still capable of the goal they set out for. Eventually their numbers grew to be so vast, that they needed a form of order to be brought into their ranks and sort out all the random "thoughts" that they all shared. Henceforth, they discovered that the females of certain races posess the telepathy to bring order from what was chaos, and "adapted". Thus why, every time we've seen the queen die, everything tears apart at the seems. They grow so dependent on her way of keeping "order", and sifting all the thoughts to make sense of it, that if she dies, it's almost the same way a drone acts when it is separated.
I'm sure I left out some other details, I'll have the watch the clip again. But considering this was made inside of a Star Trek game, I consider it a fair enough explanation. It definately answers alot of my questions about the Borg, although there are still plenty more. 
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