Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations

Heyho out there,
As we are still cleaning up the development version we are redoing a few of the old models. One of them is the Excelsior II. But this time we want you to take part in the redesign, too! :D We once did such a "community design" with the Canaveral Class and we do now want to continue this exiting experience. You will be able to chose which warp nacelles to put on her! But first some general pictures of the new design.

(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5071/excel2v1ca6.th.jpg) (http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excel2v1ca6.jpg)

And now a more detailed view of the two nacelle types.

Type A
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6469/excel2v1nacelbr5.th.jpg) (http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excel2v1nacelbr5.jpg)
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5983/excelversionbtoppm7.th.jpg) (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excelversionbtoppm7.jpg)

Type B
(http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/5354/excel2v2naceldz6.th.jpg) (http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excel2v2naceldz6.jpg)
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5262/excel2v2fh3.th.jpg) (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excel2v2fh3.jpg)

Its your choice!  ^-^

2000 posts with that newspost ;) fits for the good old nx-2000

I like B a bit better than A but the wings that hold up the warp engon are not very aerodynamic the wings from A look better. I think the back half of the sossor section could use a bit of updating also.

Heres my shot at it.

(http://em-graphics.com/ex2.gif)

Frakkin' great idea!  :thumbsup:

Where else do you get such a chance to participate in creating a game?
(I do know FO is a mod - but I state it again: FO is far more than just a mod :) )

I voted for A but I can't tell why exactly.

do they need to be aero dynamic? theres nothing to create friction in space.

I also chose B they are pretty kick ass.

Type B!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Type B!!!!

 :rolleyes:

a

Its just for show. the ent-D is aerodynamic and it dose not usaly fly. the more sleek a ship seems the cooler it looks. ALL the new ships are aerodynamic looking .

I like type B's cuz they look more dangerous (pointy). Arrr!

Kickin it oldschool with the Type A.

I would say type A, because that looks more retro.
About the saucer ewm90 was talking about please no triangular saucer, I really hate these I only like them on the Intrepid and the Sovereign class. By the way I think that a refit vessel should stay retro anyways.

Can you add a top view from type A (like in picture 2)? As itīs the ingame view i need it to make a good decision.

yes, we will add a top view soon :)

I think there's a little mix up with the pics the new views are in the wrong spots? But I'll take A-type keep it a little old school

Thanks!
Type A looks a little better (imo B makes more sense for production efficiency but wayne)

Type A.

They look similar to classic Excelsior =]

And I don't want my excelsior to be a sovereign junior. =[
And please no ubber futuristic Wedge shaped anythings.
I know that's just my opinion.
But if something's not wrong, don't fix it!
The Excelsior is beautiful. Amazing job on the model =].
And congrats on 2k posts Optec!

gotta say I really dont mind either one but if i have to choose i picked A simply cos its closer to the original.

They both loock great but I vote for type B 

Awww man, I don't think we'll ever disagree again. What happened to us? This is terrible! Haha. I just think it fits more with the saucer, since it's near the original, but with a few changes, and it...is a mix of old and new.

It was a hard choice for me but i picked A. the comments turned me onto it, retro is right.
Over all this ship rocks, i love it. when i play AIs the Excelsior II is my ship of choice, im going to love playing her more now. thanks 

My two cents after being away for so long...

I prefer A over B.  Why?  B is very similiar to the Sovereign class and according to past research isn't part of the continuation of the Excelsior line of starships.  A looks to be a more up-to-date design of the Excelsior that I fell in love with from the movies of old.

Looks like Type A is winning   :crybaby:

One could say that.  :thumbsup:

Hmm like B most

them all at good of design
but I take B :thumbsup:

I find it well that it has a new style

Come on we need more votes for B :D, just kidding A is equaly good :D

idea: why not?:
Type A for Mayson and
Type B for Risner
or something?
then there is no quarrel  :innocent:

You're just sad because A is winning  :D.

That is perhaps an option though, I donno, I just...classic lines!
I love design type A.

I am not sad :lol:

example:
Type A for Mayson
>2x Phaser
>quantum topedo
>...
Type B for Risner
>dual Pulse
>...
>crtiical shot

ya know what, thats not a bad idea :D

Type A.

Type A. Classic look.

"Don't get smart, tiny..." 

Jail Guard
Federation Funny Farm
Star Trek III: The Search For Spock

I am just concerned that the outed ship will not fit in this mod seeing the mod is a focher mod. the ship in my openen needs more than a refit. but I like the direction you are headed in.

Type A is winning  :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

type a for great justice!

A  flows better  :thumbsup:

I say type A cuz it looks more excelike ... [thinks to self(espicaly when i blow them up :lol:)]

B looks nicer, A looks more like the Excel, voted A, though they look a little short in the second picture (like they should come closer to the saucer).

Type B because it fits with the way starfleet design seems to be developing with ships like the sovereign and prometheus, a more sleek look to it if you see what I mean.

Aaaargh Vote B,
B is for Better, beautiful, bountiful, burlesque... wait, that's not right.

Vote B if you wanna save yourself from the dominion terrorists! (wow, I'm uber tired.)

I guess you just won a dinner with the German Home Secretary. Guess he'd love you for that one  :lol:

Uhm.. vote A!
Because A is simply awesome! ;)

Type B, simply B-cause (har har) the federation is inerested in upgrading, advancing, and moving forward, and B has more of a late 24th/early25th century feel to it, A looks like just another excelsior type b (mening Enterprise-B type excelsior) :lol: (Im confused.) In otherwords, B looks more like a modern spin on a good solid design, A looks like an early excelsior spaceframe protoype from Kirk's era. Its a lovely design, but not contemporary in my opinion to the FO timeperiod.
BTW; if A does win out could the mods provide us with a patch that switches A for B?

:lol:

Well that's not how democracy works. If the majority decides to screw the design you have to stick with it the way it comes :innocent:  ;)

It would cause out of syncs, lol.

Anyways type A for the win!
And yay! It's still winning.

Indeed, type A for the win!!

MCoy: "Where are we going?"
Kirk: "Where they went."
MCoy: "Suppose they went nowhere?"
Kirk: "Then this will be your big chance to get away from it all."

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

Just a thought, but I only see 52 votes right now: how many memebers are active?

Well, the thread has been viewed over 1000 times. We could assume each member read it twice, and that would still mean 500 active members, with most not bothering to vote. Unless one member has an obsession with this thread and is reading it hundreds of times each day  :ermm:

Or at least everytime someone posts something in here which means that the number of views divided by the number of posts might give us the number of active members.
But I have never been good at maths  :sweatdrop:

I read it every time someone posts, and visit once or twice a day to make sure Type A is winning.

That's it, everone can calm down now.  :sweatdrop: We've found the perpetrator. Rhaz, you may now exit via the door to your left, where you will be greased up ready for assimilation  :assimilate:

I say Type A because, it pays homage to the Excelsior class that it's a refit of.  Plus if you change the image too much then it will detract from it's original image, and if you detract too much then it begins to look like something entirely different, not a bad thing, but then why name it Excelsior if you change it so much that it no longer looks like one?

It sort of reminds me of what Pontiac recently did with the GTO or what Dodge did with the Charger... why come out with a line of automobile to pay homage to an older car but make them look entirely different, bearing no resemblance it it's predacessors?  It's kinda silly in my opinion.

But in no way am I dissing the Type B, it's kick ass!  But Type A says HEY I'M AN EXCELSIOR CLASS, I'M SO KICK ASS THAT I'VE LASTED DECADES UPON DECADES HAHA, WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE CONSTITUTION??? THAT'S RIGHT NOT KICK ASS ENOUGH, NOT LIKE ME! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  THAT'S WHY I'VE SURVIVED THE TEST OF TIME!!!  LOL!!!  B)

Haha, thats great. I finally remembered my account name. Now I can participate with voting and such. I voted for B, sure, it kinda doesn't fit the excelsior completely, but I like how it looks.

If they use type A Im afraid Ill just defect to the Klingons. :cloak: Q'apla!

Both versions are good which ever one wins will be a good chose.

B   B    B   B oh im not voting ok um i like B i like how is pointy at the end i think that is totaly sweet  :woot: :woot:

A A A A A Aa, Aaa... Aaaargh!!!  :crybaby: I just stood on a drawing pin!!

Damn that hurt...  :sweatdrop:

Yeah, Doc, you gotta watch out for those pins.... I here that if you don't all put them back in their case they sneak up on you at night and .... well, you can guess the rest  :shifty

You have been punished for choosing A as the ship you want; all actions have an equal and opposite reaction...  :(
Hmmmm, I seem to have lost the point of what I was trying to say...

Suck on some hard candy to make it feel better! (this'll have to do)
-dom

Yeah I should have seen this coming, it's what I deserve.  :innocent:

Perhaps I should change my allegiance...  :ermm:

Type A is still winning  :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

A good choice!  :thumbsup:

B true to Fleet Operations :innocent:

I must throw my lot in with type B.  After all, this is the Excelsior II, and the design might as well reflect it.

Ding, Ding, Ding
We have a winner folks :D
(sorry I just had to be obnoxious :whistling:)

I say the Type B Nacells. The Type A is just like the Original ones.

But, either one is fine!!

It's pretty close still.

B ftw!

We need more votes, so that B can win! :whistling:

email, IM, call, xfire or whatever your friends, have them register and vote for B!

Pshhh... remember, I have no friends, I live in this lobby!

Sorry, I forgot we all hate you.  :sweatdrop:

I go for B

were talking about a post nem happy team, so im going with B because most people have failed at making a sovereign style excelsior, it is hard I think I can do it.

I have some questions, the most obvious one is why in the hell did you put TMP thrusters on the excelsior II? you do know they have RCS Thrusters. I also just hate the secondary hull it looks too much like the galaxy class, the secondary hull is too big and the primary hull is too thin.

I took the liberty of drawing up something in ms paint because im so angry at the person who modelled this, this is how the excelsior saucer should look like. im doing a photoshop concept soon since i'll be modelling one.

http://img131.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=45172_Untitled-1_122_600lo.jpg

I planned on making a circular sovereign saucer (not oval) with nova bridge module and an akira phaser strip. 3 shuttle bays, 2 aft above and underneath impulse engines and 1 aft tail, 2 forward cargo bays to fit the emergency aid and mission specific profile.

the enterprise b, excelsior refit. was fitted with counter cloak technology, I think this would be a good special for gameplay, decloak enemy vessels in sensor range.

- Christine

Aaaarhg, picture won't display for me!
But interesting ideas for the excelsior... have you modded before?

(and YES for choosing B)

Word, Optec got TOLD!  :lol:

She has a point.  A post-nemesis Excelsior would (probably) have a more modern impulse drive.

Perhaps, since textures aren't finished, it could be 'upgraded' to something more Sovy-ish?

Oooh, now that I can see the saucer... I like it  :thumbsup:
...but my opinions mean diddly as I am not a star trek buff.

No, but you are a community member (respected, at that) and your opinion counts.

oooh *gasp*, thanks! :D

...then on that note, from a stance completely devoid of star trek history, I have to say that I like the Flops team's design better for the Excelsior, as it makes the ship look more lethal. This is going to be kind of hard to describe, but the way the model appears, it looks as if the ship is an arrow from a top down perspective, with all the destructive energy being focused to a point at the front of the ship.... I don't know if any of this makes sense. From a lateral perspective the whole ship looks kind of like a dart or a chisel: very dangerous looking. The other design, although it looks well thought out, is too tame. It does look like something the federation would build a hundred(?) years before nemesis, when they were expanding peacefully and didn't have such nasty wars, (and thus perhaps it is better suited for a derelict or something you can build at a mercenary base) but now they need ships that are more powerful and I think the Flops design (preferably B with its nastily pointed nacelles) fulfills this.
-dom

#1 http://img176.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=17507_e2_copy_122_522lo.jpg
#2 http://img154.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=17933_e3_copy_122_994lo.jpg

#1 Mirror Free Image Hosting service at Picsaway.com (http://www.picsaway.com/view/e2_copy-4c7f566918.jpg)
#2 Mirror Free Image Hosting service at Picsaway.com (http://www.picsaway.com/view/e3_copy-7f43ea9446.jpg)

U.S.S. Excelsior NCC-2001

"After the Dominion War Starfleet begun decomissioning aging Miranda and Excelsior Class
Vessels Due to the existing formable Heavy Cruisers such as the Akira and Nebula.
With the newly signed Peace Treaty Between the Federation and Klingon Empire aswell as Perliminary
Talks between the Romulan Star Empire, Starfleet felt it strayed away from it's exploration and
scientific duties and called for a vessel to compliment the new proven Sovereign class. Based on
the Sovereign Class Prototype IV (2365) Designed for Long Range Exploration and Emergency Aid."

Enhanced Scientific / Explorer

Length 500 m
Beam 240 m
Height 75 m
Decks 20
Mass 3,000,000 mt
Crew 550

6x Fore Type XII Phaser Arrays
1x Fore Pulse Fire Quantum Torpedo Tube
1x Aft Type 4 Burst Fire Photon Torpedo Tube

Prototype Auto modulated shield system, total capacity 3,000,000 TeraJoules
Heavy Duranium/Tritanium Double hull plus 10 cm Ablative armour
High level Structural Integrity Field

Extra:
Fore Cargo Bay 1, Fore Cargo Bay 2
Aft Shuttle Bay 1, Aft Shuttle Bay 2
Aft Shuttle Bay 3
Prototype Hull Connection
Secondary Sensor Array

Note:
* Akira Class Phaser Strip
* Nova Class Bridge Module
* 1 extra Shuttle Bay
* 2 extra Cargo Bay
* Intrepid Class Shuttle Doors.

if you like it, let me know and i'll finish the rest of the ship. im definitley better at modelling lol  :woot:

- Christine  :innocent:

That looks cool! Show me the rest of the ship---errr, please?
As a complement to the excelsior Flops designed it looks perfect, especially with the background (yeah, more support ships!)... So is this supposed to be in place of the flops excelsior or ... maybe I misunderstood things.
Hopefully the team signs on (if there's a place for a new fed ship!)

I have no problem with it.  Try pming Doca to get a real response.

I must warn you, they have always been fiercely independent in modding.

thanks for the comments, I'll be modelling the excelsior in a couple weeks, im working on the centaur right now, I use a canon print as concept. I was just bored and thought I could add a bit to this thread, regardless, I know the ship has probably been completed weeks ago lol (my time to waste). and I know the team is post nem happy alot of people dont notice the difference between a DS9 Season 7 Miranada and a TNG Season 1, optec seems to be a pretty competent modeller, my concept and info seems to blow away the "Flops" as you call it excelsior model. I don't pretend to know details of the next version but I hope the excelsior is done right. 

please no more frakenstein designs, nova and promethesus for the win!  :blush:

- Christine

Perhaps.  And I, for one, only use the "Flops" term in a negative connotation.  FO works much better for casual reference.

oh, oops. Whenever I say Flops, I mean no disrespect, in fact I do this because it sounds cool, like a puppy, or something waiting in the shadows... but I digress.
Should I stick to FO (so cold and formal) or go on with the Flops informality and ubiquitissness (that's not a word is it :sweatdrop:)?

I always interpreted it as a derogative term, one that you could count on Joelt or Ryan to use when they were in a Fleet Ops bashing mood. (disclaimer: Ryan has been a constant support recently, so I by no means mean this is any negative way in his direction).

Of course, I know that most people never cought on to the negative usage, and just used it because it looked cool.  I myself have used it a handful of times, but as I stated above, only when I was in a particularly bad mood.

I use the term Flops. Simply because it sounds better, and I've always supported this mod. Sure, from time to time I don't get along with a certain forum member or two, but I do love this mod and this community, I had no clue it was derogatory.

to get back on topic, I worked up this rough print to fool around with incase interested.

http://img171.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=72772_e4_122_616lo.jpg
Mirror: Free Image Hosting service at Picsaway.com (http://www.picsaway.com/view/e4-ab9aead61c.jpg)

I just looked at the FO Pictures and im a bit confused, it looks like enterprise b in prospective, however
no miranda, no centaur, no original excelsior leaves me to the conclusion it's going to have a sovereign texture? so this would just be a remodel? it just has blatent problems a new high quality ship, using old impulse engines. and they are kinda hard not to notice. if your going to leave old impulse drive than why not bring in a miranda? im so confused because it was my understanding that this would be a new excelsior class design? *scratches her chin in suspicion* :ermm:

- Christine

I do believe that they Excelsior II always used custom textures.  It seemed grayish to me.

once I begun doing the hull I couldn't help but notice errors in my own work. since this is my actually first concept design of a starship, as a modeller im used to getting the concept from others and their is hundreds of professional cad prints available on a wide variety. so I decided to redo it.

http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=91749_excelsior_122_1104lo.jpg

one thing I noticed on the sovereign is the impulse engines are crooket like the ones I did. I didn't realize this was blatently due to the saucer section being oval.

Also some updates.

U.S.S. Excelsior NX-2001

Modules:

Nova Class Variant Nacelle
Nova Class Variant Bridge
Nova Class Shuttle Pad 1
Nova Class Shuttle Bay 2
Nova Class Shuttle Bay 3
Akira Class Deflector Dish
Sovereign Class Phaser Array
Sovereign Class Torpedo Launcher
Sovereign Class Loading Bay
Sovereign Class Escape Pod
Sovereign Class Impulse Engine
Sovereign Class Thruster
Prototype Hull Connection Structure
Prototype Secondary Sensor Array

I also decided to use the nova class shuttle module, at first glance it appears their is only 1 shuttle bay by the tail like so: http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=93266_nova-comparison3_122_1035lo.jpg however their is a "hidden" one as you can see it's a DS9 Runabout PAD Style, I intend to have 2 Shuttle bays, 1 on the aft saucer, 1 on the aft tail. and 1 "shuttlepad"

I also decided to use the nova class nacelle's this time, they are very simular to the sovereign but based on an older sovereign design, the back rcs thrusters are an older design aswell as the fan tail which we can all agree would benefit the excelsior II ;) I believe their was 1 sovereign design and 3 sovereign updates based over 20 or 30 year period aswell as the flagship update specificly for the enterprise in nemesis which I believed changed the shuttlebay doors to triangular instead of square and modified the torpedo launchers from single head launchers [] to dual heads [][]

it's presumable the galaxy class, nebula class will be reduced in dutie. ambassador class being replaced by the intrepid class diplomatic design. miranda and excelsior classes being decommissioned. nova class resuming construction for scientific design and with the akira class being a patrol and carrier vessel not to mention it's formible battle record the excelsior II is the perfect class to compliment the sovereign's design for exploration with it's mission specific and emergency aid design. im interested in some feedback afterall designing is half the battle and I wouldn't want to discrace the excelsior like some others!

- Christine

Anyway that we could see a full architectural schematic? I would love to see how everything is being integrated (or was the picture in your other post the full thing?).

it wasn't. ive already done the saucer, but I want to redo it. the top view will be first, side view second. shouldn't take that long. im busy with modelling the centaur in max and when im not working on that im in photoshop designing this, since the excelsior will be my next model. if their are any modules or design aspects your interested in vocing please do :)

- Christine

Well, I was concerned that the ship may appear to be too stubby. For the design you are going for, it seems that longer coils and a "stretched out" frame of the ship would make it appear sleaker, and therefore more Fedish... maybe? Will the saucer really be that round though? If it is then may I suggest having the pylons that hold the warp engines at really prominent angles (and not straight up, or just barely angled, like some of those ugly TOS ships): in general it is very hard to critique a design which hasn't been displayed :whistling:

-dom :thumbsup:

well the good thing about the nova class nacelles is that they are straight and not tilted forward like the sovereigns. obviously they are half the size of the sovereign nacelles and would look stupid to have an excelsior with tiny nacelles so I will scale them in length. I had concerns about using an original pylon like the galaxy or original excelsior but in reality, all newly designed ships of 2360-2370 use the "V" angle with the exception of compact ships like the steamrunner and saber (unavoidable) which is actually like the old constitution class, infact the new sovereign impulse engines are taken from the original excelsior, aswell as the "dome" shuttle bay doors which is also from the old excelsior and constitution. the excelsior II will be if not as big or a little bigger in length of the galaxy class, the hull and saucer compose of about 75% of the size of the sovereign so it will be shorter. I thought about using sovereign technology default with "newer" technology to create a brand new starship design more powerful than a sovereign but I don't think it will feel right, the excelsior II fits a more cheaper role like, resources, size, half the armament, prototype sovereign defenses, and extra shuttle and cargo bays to fit the profile. in-game this should replace the original however I would like to see the defense increased because at default they seem to become cannon fodder and more like destroyers (low defense, high armament) very quickly compared to akira and galaxy and people tend to discard them now and not even build them, the excelsior and excelsior II is the sister ship of the sovereign and should be "the" ship for patrolling duty I think it will look considerably different and feel right. :)

- Christine

kitabash's suck.

it's not a kitbash the excelsior is it's own design, the older and new excelsior II models are ugly like that quote. you can thank fleetops not me, im simply designing and creating one that will put optec in his place, using a simular technique so that it doesn't have 20,000 polys or look like the best ship in-game. and if they don't want to use my excelsior (I hope they do), I will release 2 versions to the public, one for fleetops (fo style wireframe, buttons, admirals log, odf) and one for stock. as with any of my models, my talents are not for hire, I model which ships I want but if a mod team wants to use it months before I release to public that would make me happy.

- Christine

Well, let's not get angry at Optec for helping to make this incredible "game". I don't think it would be nice to put someone down that works hard trying to make a game better for the enjoyment of the people, and also doing this for free. I think if you finish your excelsior design and kindly show it to the FO team, then they will look at it and decide whether to use yours or their own. If you start making fun of any of them, they might not be so willing.

Use the Lakota refit, has Quantums, nice and canon, there shouldn't even be a discussion on it.

(http://screenshots.filesnetwork.com/16/files2/81630_2.jpg)

They have it, why can't we...

Screenshot is totaly awsome  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Essentially an unmodified Excelsior Enterprise-B subtype model with stronger armor, more Phasers, and Quantums. It just feels right, no kitbash BS.

I couldn't agree more. There's an elegance to the original model, and it's not just about nostalgia. The excelsior refit doesn't have to look like it's the love child of an F14 Tomcat in order to fit in with the rest of the fleet. Besides, pointy aerodynamics is useless in space. It's a vacuum!!  :lol: There's no air resistance.

Even though I like the model... I really don't like that the nacelles are joined at 90 degree angles. They seem to just want to be broken off.

Ha, yep I see what you mean.  :D Bit of a design flaw there. They'd probably snap off, like tree twiggies on a windy day, as soon as you reached half impulse. If it were real that is. At least, I think the Star Trek universe is fictional. Actually, come to think of it, I'm not sure  :ermm:. Someone help me out here. Dang, how did I get down this slippery slope from a discussion about warp nacelles? Way to go me, I managed to mention a standard logical debating error, without even intending it (slippery slope).

Well, if we go with the Lakota type it can't be too powerful a vessel anymore, as the Lakota was beaten down quite easily by a ship a quarter of its size.

Not trying to disagree but...  :ermm:

Well we're either overestimating the power of an excelsior class vessel, or underestimating the power of the defiant. After all, the defiant is a weapon with a couple of warp nacelles glued on the side. It was built, not as a general purpose ship, but as a warship, and it was built 80 years after the Enterprise-B. Plus, it's far more maneuverable owing to its size, so it could fly around the Lakota like a buzzing bee if it wanted. This is assymetric combat, and can allow a weaker opponent to defeat a stronger one. Finally, I'm not sure the excelsiors had been refitted with upgrades and quantums at the time of the attempted coup, but I could be wrong here, someone correct me on this one.  :innocent:

That's all well and good darting around in space, but it doesn't work.  It's not like phasers can miss a moving target.  We've never seen that happen in all of Trek (not counting pulse phasers).  And it's not like the Lakota's that slow.  I mean, both ships can get to just below lightspeed.

And yes, the Defiant is a weapon, but it's a very small weapon.  The fact that the Lakota got beat down in this situation speaks to it's relative weakness, especially when compared to the Excelsior II.

And we don't know exactly when the Lakota was built, but I have reservations about starfleet building new ships of a design that's pushing 100...

I definitely agree on that one. I always thought it was strange that Starfleet were so keen to decommission the constitution class, but kept the excelsior and miranda classes going for the best part of a century. It's probably about what looks nice according to the show's producers, which takes precedence over realism.

Technically we have seen phasers miss a moving target... Nemesis, when Picard's sovereign fires "full spread". Though then again, the darn ship WAS cloaked. Also, in the newest series (is that Enterprise? I can't really remember the name), Captain Archer fires at romulan drone ships (controlled by those strange andorians that are blind but telepathic) and misses--constantly, I might add--when firing his phasers. SO THERE! HA!
lol, just kidding. I also thought, now that I truly think about it, that the way the first generation Excelsior's primary hull is glued on to engineering deck looks a bit odd. Too right angularish again. Makes the ship look bulky, not streamlined.
-dom

I wouldn't know 'cos I can't glue the thing on. I've tried and tried, but the damn thing won't fit!! I guess I'm just not very skilled at it. I tried using a knife to shave a few bits of plastic off, but I think I made the situation worse. Now the duck's neck thingy is too small for the primary hull part. I've really stuffed it up haven't I?  :crybaby:

I would use both the original Excelsior AND the Excelsior E-B Lakota subtype. My logic is, you can buy the Lakota with credits, and the original Excelsior would be a less powerful Heavy Cruiser like in say, SFC3.

Or you could use the Rhien/Generix refit thingy, be able to buy Excelsiors fairly early in game, and soon after be able to refit them to Enterprise subtypes capable of some sort of anti-cloak device. Then after much more tech, Lakota subtypes, costing much more and a credit. So you get 3 out of one, or something...

I have no quarrel with the original Excelsior being ingame, but they would have to be warp-in ships as they are (most definitely) no longer built by the Federation.

But then take into account the sheer number of them left, far exceeding the Nebula, Galaxy, Sovereign, and Defiant classes combined.

Well, just because they are warp-in doesn't mean that they must cost credits.  It could be accomplished just as well as if they were built, except more realistic.

Fair enough, but I still think dropping that unnecessary Remore class for a multi-upgradeable Excelsior would solve all these issues.

It would be interesting.  But I must say I have a particular fondness for the Remore's design.  That, and the FO team already redid it for v3.

That was just my idea, as the Remore would be an excellent ship to drop, due to it's uncanonness and general ugly-unstar trekky look.

I think i vaguely remember Optec mentioning that the old-style Excelsior would be in FO at some point as well (as an "uncommon stuff" unit like the Premonition is). It is likely that will be the Lakota refit, as it would be safe to assume all of the Excelsior's in service would have had that upgrade.

Actually I like the Remoore since it has been redone for V3. The design is great and I wouldn't call it useless. It's a good support-ship. Well, unless you regard support-ships as useless, the Remoore is useless, too. If you like them.. you have to like her. That's logic.. or whatever.
But the idea of Excelsior-refits sounds good. Maybe the staff comes up with something which would integrate this idea into the game.

The Excelsior is unlikely to see frontline combat duty. The Miranda suffered EXTENSIVELY during the dominion war and I doubt it would see anything but customs duty, training ship duty or patrol and anti piracy duty inside the federation. The Excelsior is the type of ship to be relegated to the Romulan Neutral zone during a major crisis, and it is more than likely they are being slowly decommissioned to bolster the crew pool for newer vessels, and the latter batches being refit to the Excelsior II Standard which makes the Excelsior I Lakota Subtype ENTIRELY redundant. Thus the Miranda, Excelsior I (and IB), the Ambassador, Freedom, Cheyenne and other similar early TNG / TMP Designs belong as map objects.

nooooooooooooooooooooooooo after all of these of inactivity and A is still winning? who do i have to kill to have B win?.

I know, darn it!  :lol: