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Title: Borg Origins Post by: Saijen on September 18, 2006, 01:51:41 PM Hey everyone, it's been a long time. This is BlackFalcon. I had my name changed. I am still working on the story combining the Star Trek and Star Wars worlds from a while back. however the tedious issues of life have made the story take longer than I anticipated. I only have 7 chapters finished so far, but even those, are looking like they may be rewritten.
But for now, I have a question for you all that I thought might be interesting to hear different opinions on. The question was raised from my roommate, and after he had asked, I was dieing to know myself. Where do the Borg come from? How did they come to be driven by the one will of aspiring perfection? What is the Queen's role in leading the Borg? If we've seen her die on so many occasions, why do we KEEP seeing her, and is she supposed to be the same Queen throughout the different performances portrayed by different actresses? Now I've heard of a comic that was released describing exactly what I'm asking about, detailing that the Borg started off as a race that was diseased, and that disease forced them to either go on living the rest of their lives with it, or adapt to it. But if this is true, then what were they like BEFORE the disease struck? Exactly what effect did the disease have on them, forcing them to become what we know them as now? How did they become to be the disaster that we know them as now, if not from the disease? Were they always a unified mind? Were they always dependent on cybernetics and assimilation to survive? Please post your opinions. Myself and others are eager to hear from different points of view on this subject. There is no right or wrong answer here in my opinion, unless it were to come directly from the writers and developers of Star Trek itself. But since they're not here, let's be creative and see if we can put it together based on OUR unified knowledge. ;) Title: Borg Origins Post by: Cpt Ryan on September 18, 2006, 02:04:35 PM my opinion is, that the queens are as different as the borg cube vessels. identical in appearance butnot the same unit. however i think that the conscieness of the queen IS in fact the same otherwise she wouldn't keep referring to herself as "I".
When the queen is destroyed the borg probably just rebuild another body, and transfer her thoughts/mind back to her. after all remember Seven talking about her inevitable death, she says that in the collective she would have lived on through her own voice, but as an individual she would just fade to a dim memory (yeah i know some poetic lisencing there, sue me :P ....). maybe it was a machine/computer which came up with the unattainable "perfection" objective. afterall who among you is naive enough to think perfection is even attainable? perhaps in the beginning it was simply computer programming that controlled drones and then evolved into a shared mind. Title: Borg Origins Post by: -=B!G=-The Black Baron on September 18, 2006, 02:13:32 PM About the borg origin your guess is as good as mine. However about how come the queen wont die, its simple really. She explains it perfectly in First Contact.
I think the dialog goes something like this: Picard: "But you were destroyed on that cube, along with the rest of the Borg." Queen: "You think in such THREE DIMENSIONAL WAY, how small have you become?!" Now the 4th dimension is time, so I think she simply used timetravel to save her arse. Title: Borg Origins Post by: Jan on September 18, 2006, 04:49:37 PM Very interesting aspect of StarTrek. I like discussing that matter. I'd more like to write in german cos thats much simpler for me to express. So be patient if you maybe don't understand what I mean.
Where do the Borg come from? It's a secret. there are too less information about the Borg. They don't talk that much u know ;) They once were like us I guess. I also heard of what Ryan said. How did they come to be driven by the one will of aspiring perfection? Borg are assimilating other species to reach perfection. It's the pure evolution. Getting perfect like nature does. It's just the way to increase the time passing by...a controlled evolution on warp 10 if you want. But the philosophic aspect is much deeper I think. Look at Species 8472. They are more perfect than Borg. The weak will die. Evolution again. It has much to do with things happening in our real life. You have to search for paralleles in our world to know what Roddenberry meant with his stories. Maybe that's the way to find out where Borg came from! What is the Queen's role in leading the Borg? She doesn't lead the Borg. She is the one, the collective as it is. Brought together into one body to communicate with beeings like us. Brings the question why she wanted Picard beside her.... Without a all overwhelming connection of all Borg there is no collective. So there is no Queen. Otherwise if the Borg Queen dies the collective dies because she is the collective. There is no order. The one that is many. Sorry but I just know the dubbed german version of StarTrek. The collective is a self organising organsim ordered by the instinct, behavior, ... of all so far assimilated races. The one organism "collective" becomes imperfect...they are simply not linked with each other. it's broken. Ever played Armada 2 Borg missions? There you can see what i mean. If we've seen her die on so many occasions, why do we KEEP seeing her, and is she supposed to be the same Queen throughout the different performances portrayed by different actresses? It's not just the 4th dimension. It includes 4th dimension, thats true. But there are more than just the 4th. It goes behond time and space. There are countless systems of the Borg and all characteristics are also saved there of all beeings as they exists anywhere. The bodies of Borg are nothing more than tools. That's why you can't kill the Borg by killing one Drone. But it's a link into the collective. It's hard to explain that in english. Hope I could give you the right answers. Title: Borg Origins Post by: Smoerebroed on September 18, 2006, 06:23:05 PM hmm though topic AND i'm going to spoil it :D
The Borg Queen; yeah the Borg Queen was invented to present the cinema audience with an physical enemy rather then several voices overlapped and distorted by some Yamaha synthesizer; (When I watch an movie made in Hollywood, i expect the following thing: the filmstudio thinks that their audience is retarded ;) ) So the Borg Queen in my eyes is a construction created by the moviemakers to make the film mor tense, since otherwise data's "struggle" with "evil" would be half so funny to watch (i just say: dialoge before the sex-scene) So hmm you could ask some hardcore trekkie-fans if they can live with you AND your story IF you would decide to drop the Borg Queen as "non-canon" i recommend you to read the articel about the borg at memory alpha; i -in parts- share his opinion; So now you can HATE me if you like :P Title: Borg Origins Post by: Eufnoc on September 18, 2006, 06:27:40 PM heh i would also like to point out, we have cloning tech in this day and age, the dominion have it, the roms have it, whos to say none of our reserach or anyother race or even a borg invention has not cloned her, as you all said a borg can not die but can be transported into a nother bein or 3.5" floppy.
Title: Borg Origins Post by: hypercube on September 18, 2006, 08:47:51 PM well, this is actually explained some truought the episodes, in Voyager it is stated that they had been a small race of beings that wanted to better themselves using cybernetic implants, eventually taking over other species and adding them into the collective, in Enterprise it's explained when they came from their homeland in the delta quadrant to our little quorner of the galaxy, when they find remains of a sphere on earth.
Title: Borg Origins Post by: Cpt Ryan on September 19, 2006, 12:00:17 AM Quote well, this is actually explained some truought the episodes, in Voyager it is stated that they had been a small race of beings that wanted to better themselves using cybernetic implants, eventually taking over other species and adding them into the collective, in Enterprise it's explained when they came from their homeland in the delta quadrant to our little quorner of the galaxy, when they find remains of a sphere on earth. As some of that came from Akiraprise it shall be disregarded :P , sorry but that series had a habit of rewriting history as it saw fit :mellow: -_- Title: Borg Origins Post by: Saijen on September 19, 2006, 12:06:15 AM Yes but that's a time loophole right there. That sphere that they found on Earth in the seriers Enterprise, is the Borg sphere that was destroyed in the movie First Contact by Picard's Enterprise-E. Technically, it is still from the future.
Now that also puts some controversy in this, because with that episode from the Enterprise series, it shows that the Borg transmitted a message to the Delta Quadrant after Archer destroyed their ship, paving the way for the war with the Borg in the 24th century. HOWEVER, it was Q in the first place who introduced us to the Borg. If it weren't for him, we probably wouldn't have met them until possibly, when Voyager was thrown to the Delta Quadrant, since that's their native land. And you say that the Borg Queen IS the collective, and that if we destroy her, we destroy The Collective, but how many times now have we seen her die? Gosh, I can't keep count. It wasn't until the last episode of Voyager, that we finally dealt a smashing blow to them, seeing the Borg Queen fall apart at the limbs, the Unicomplex exploding, and Voyager destroying 1 out of 6 transwarp hubs in the galaxy. I'd say that dealt the biggest blow yet. Title: Borg Origins Post by: [F-I-I]VAdm-MJP on September 19, 2006, 12:33:18 AM *bangs head off desk* i know that i read a book somewere a realy realy good one that talked about it, but i cant remmeber now?! i keep thinking the 3 shatner books but i that was more mirror i think, been to long.
Title: Borg Origins Post by: hypercube on September 19, 2006, 01:07:25 AM it's basically a pre-destination paradox.
The borg invade earth, becuse the borg from the future, now in the past warn them about it. Title: Borg Origins Post by: Jan on September 19, 2006, 01:13:17 AM As the Queen died in First Contact all Drones went mad. That's what I mean when the collective dies. In that time there was no collective in a distance to be part of it. That's why they tried to contact themselves. So there have been 2 collectives. One from the future and very small. The other one far away and atm assimilating other species.
the point of 3.5" floppy. Ever seen her skull ? it is 3.5" floppy :P Title: Borg Origins Post by: Acidpunk on September 20, 2006, 03:14:07 AM well it is now seeing as Ent did it
Notice how practically every ST series has borg even ds9 has the appearance in the fist ep Title: Borg Origins Post by: [F-I-I]VAdm-MJP on September 20, 2006, 03:19:22 AM lol they were the new klingon.
DITL has some good articals on the BORG, and i think Q Who gives some good hints. Title: Borg Origins Post by: Silver Gryphon on October 29, 2006, 09:23:21 PM I tend to theorize that the borg were a technological society gone bad. My guess is that they originate in another galaxy so far away its hundreds of years away at transwarp. The borg in our galaxy are just 'colonists' if you will. A single branch of the collective. One of many.... :assimilate: At leats thats the latest hypothosis here at...., well I can't tell you where I work in Starfleet or I'd have to kill you. ;) :ph34r:
Title: Borg Origins Post by: T-Man on October 30, 2006, 09:33:06 PM Quote And you say that the Borg Queen IS the collective, and that if we destroy her, we destroy The Collective, but how many times now have we seen her die? Gosh, I can't keep count. It wasn't until the last episode of Voyager, that we finally dealt a smashing blow to them, seeing the Borg Queen fall apart at the limbs, the Unicomplex exploding, and Voyager destroying 1 out of 6 transwarp hubs in the galaxy. I'd say that dealt the biggest blow yet. IMO, The Borg Queen we see is merely a shell; a host for her conciousness. Her actual conciousness, or "spirit" if you will, is part of the collective, formed from the orchestra of minds as one commanding prescence, the source of all commands. Because of this, her experiences and memories form part of the collective, and thus will survive if her body is destroyed at any point.This is why the Queen was able to return after First Contact; the shell was destroyed, but her conciousness (or at least all of it stored prior to her temporal jump) remained within the collective and was transfered into a replacement shell; a genetic clone of the Queen's previous shell. Essentially, unless the entire collective was anihallated at once, the Queen is immortal, as would be any other Borg figureheads (like Locutus), even if their ship was seperated from the collective (all of their experience up to the seperation would remain, and thus the leaderless drones could clone a replacement queen). Nevertheless, i do agree that the collective is not having a great time of it at the mo; the Unicomplex is gone, Species 8472 have become resistant to the nanoprobe weaponry (thanks to voyager), and the Unimatrix rebellion is causing civil war throughout the collective. Their empire is on the verge of collapse, though i'm sure the Queen will find some way to adapt to this and help the collective return to its former glory. However, i doubt the Borg would try any major invasions for a little while; they need to focus on the Delta Quadrant. Title: Borg Origins Post by: Fullphaser on November 03, 2006, 05:23:35 AM But you have to remember for all the damage they have suffered, The borg still had a massive empire to begin with, and they weren't stretched out. I wouldn't be surprised if the Borg have come up with some adaption to 8472 weaponry at this point. I mean they have had several years. Also Unimatrix Zero One drones did have a few ships, but maybe only 50 out of potentially millions.
And finally I doubt that blow to the unicomplex was really felt. I mean we are talking a minor structure in the long run. Title: Borg Origins Post by: Acidpunk on November 03, 2006, 02:44:41 PM to be honest i never get where this idea that the borg were crippled from its aload of crap
The Unicomplex wasnt a big deal at all it can be rebuilt in less than a few months knowing the borg, The transwarp gate they still have more of them and could easily rebuild it And the virus i bet they adapted pretty damn fast in all i reckon the borg were back to full strength in 6months maybe less Title: Borg Origins Post by: Barrok Nor 00539 on January 22, 2007, 05:04:07 AM As far as the "how did they come into being?" question i know we all hav, my opinion, they were a dieing race, due to some disese, or if u remember the Evolution episode in TNG, it's posible that the race thought it was dieing off, and created some machines or in terms we all wil understand, robots, to "continue their legasy" witch was programmed to atain perfection. Then they saw the only way to complete the seemibly unatainible goal, was to "use" other races, and also tru as others hav said, the unimatrix wasn't that big of a deal, for example, Q sent them to the delta quadrent, thus starting this chain of events, it was not the freighter thingy that the borg assimilated and sent a message with,[/b] notice, the borg didn't find the humans as a threat at the first contect, with that ******* Q. If the borg had accualy recieved that transmission, they would hav destroied them on the spot, takng the entire colective and wiped out Earth before they even had a chance to comission Voyager, therefore the humans wouldn't hav done the dammage it did to the unimatrix; that, and the fact that spieces 8472 would wipe out practicly everything else, and if you remember, the 8472 cell structure was 20x the human cell structure, so they probably only needed a .77659% more complexity asesend,(much like the anchents in Star Gate, i know i know different scieres) and if they did, they would be on mere phases away from the power the Q's did, I still think those bastards Q, Q, Q, Q, Q, Q, Q, Q the Q council, q and q :omg: :omg: (lower case meaning that they are not fully Q, and that they r said in ahight pich :lol: , taken from the book series of Star Trek Titan :lol: :lol: :lol: ) (FYI the only 11 u ever see and the 2nd q is Q's son lol) were human like in the begining, with NO power at ALLL!!!! let's bring some R's into the situation, too meny Q's, any want to bring in any other letters of the alphabet? BTW would A or Z be the highest? i'm not sure?
Title: Borg Origins Post by: eoraptor on January 22, 2007, 09:47:45 PM Quote *bangs head off desk* i know that i read a book somewere a realy realy good one that talked about it, but i cant remmeber now?! i keep thinking the 3 shatner books but i that was more mirror i think, been to long. no, you're thinking of Vendetta, one of the first TNG novels... one of my faves too from my Jr highschool days... it basically says that there was a war between the two ancient races in the galaxy, the (insert race name I can't remember here) race that seeded the galaxy, and were largely a race focused on diversity; and the race that became the borg, who wanted sameness and perfection. The first race, the seeders, created th e planet killer as seen in TOS as a doomsday weapon against the borg I too would like to see an explanation on where the Borg actually came from, and thier homeworld, if it even still exists. but IMHO, as is already expressed here, Voyager pretty much put the nails in the coffin that was the borg as a scary antagonist. and when Akiraprise came along and said that they could *ahem* cure borg nanites in the ealry twenty-second century? say goodnight gracie. Much maligned as it is, Legacrap has some interesting ideas about the Borg' Origins as well... as do a few shatner novels (the second and third from his first trilogy, whoes names also escape me now) Title: Borg Origins Post by: Admiral Adama on January 22, 2007, 11:10:09 PM they kept adding to that trilogy and it now has like 20 books,
right now they are on a mirror kirk thing FYI-THERE IS NO CANNON INFORMATION AS TO THE BEGGINGS OF THE BORG Title: Borg Origins Post by: Fullphaser on January 23, 2007, 04:37:17 AM Quote they kept adding to that trilogy and it now has like 20 books, sure there is, we can assume with some reasonable integrity that they started in the Delta quadrant. right now they are on a mirror kirk thing FYI-THERE IS NO CANNON INFORMATION AS TO THE BEGGINGS OF THE BORG Title: Borg Origins Post by: eoraptor on January 23, 2007, 09:13:19 AM Actually, those books are a series of trilogies.. each story spans three books.
Yes, we can safely assume that the Borg began their existence in the delta quadrant, and have been around since before the late 21st century (per First contact when the borg from the 24th tried to signal to them) but beyond that, nothing cannon is really known, just conjecture from various novels Title: Borg Origins Post by: RedShirt on January 23, 2007, 08:09:57 PM Novels which, on many occasions, do a better job than the shows...
Title: Borg Origins Post by: Admiral Adama on January 24, 2007, 02:31:11 AM shatner hints that the probe from the tos movie was from the borg
Title: Borg Origins Post by: eoraptor on January 24, 2007, 04:40:00 AM Quote shatner hints that the probe from the tos movie was from the borg that's a pretty common theory... there's another similar idea [spoiler]in Legacrap that V'Ger not only traveled to the Delta Quadrant, but also back in time, and thus was the origen of the borg, creating them as avatars after the machine lifeforms upgraded it[/spoiler] Title: Borg Origins Post by: Admiral Adama on January 25, 2007, 03:18:34 AM how did it travel back in time?
(mayby thats why humans are the only race to not be completely assimilated by the borg when they came for them-they are the cause of the borg) Title: Borg Origins Post by: eoraptor on January 25, 2007, 04:03:32 AM Quote how did it travel back in time? Remember, V'ger fell through a black hole... a place that warps space and time so powerfully that light itself cannot escape.. That's what the game says anyways... and who can really say what would happen who something that fell though a black hole and survived. (mayby thats why humans are the only race to not be completely assimilated by the borg when they came for them-they are the cause of the borg) Title: Borg Origins Post by: Admiral Adama on January 27, 2007, 12:34:48 AM it also pulls apart vger because of gravity so its not realy a good explanation
Title: Borg Origins Post by: Saijen on February 16, 2007, 08:01:51 AM Well who would've thought that they would finally shed some light on this matter.
For those that have played the newest Star Trek game that was released, Legacy, in the extras section of the main menu in that game, there is an option titled, "Origin of the Borg". In the game, starting from Archer's timeframe and moving forward, the main plot is basically to chase down a Vulcan scientist named Trel. She somehow takes control of the Borg, without being assimilated (it never shows if she is so I could be wrong, but the further the game progresses, the more "borg" her ship appears). The above titled extra feature in this game is narrated by this, Trel, and supports alot of what people think about the "probe", from Star Trek TMP. It does not fully speak about the whole cloud thing that we saw in the movie, but there were concept art pictures of it, shooting beams at StarFleet ships. Anyway, the story goes as told by Trel, a race of machines intercepts a long lost Human satellite that had drifted out into space far off its course. They, "assimilate", for lack of a better term, the satellite, and learn of the race of Humans. The knowledge contained within this probe inspires (I know machines don't feel inspiration, so just bear with the way I word this) them to seek out knowledge of other races, somewhat similar to the goal of our human exploration. However the machines take it upon themselves to "force" this knowledge into their being. They create "drones", made in the image of what they knew to be Human, but still vastly superior and still capable of the goal they set out for. Eventually their numbers grew to be so vast, that they needed a form of order to be brought into their ranks and sort out all the random "thoughts" that they all shared. Henceforth, they discovered that the females of certain races posess the telepathy to bring order from what was chaos, and "adapted". Thus why, every time we've seen the queen die, everything tears apart at the seems. They grow so dependent on her way of keeping "order", and sifting all the thoughts to make sense of it, that if she dies, it's almost the same way a drone acts when it is separated. I'm sure I left out some other details, I'll have the watch the clip again. But considering this was made inside of a Star Trek game, I consider it a fair enough explanation. It definately answers alot of my questions about the Borg, although there are still plenty more. :D Title: Borg Origins Post by: Smoerebroed on February 16, 2007, 02:34:41 PM glmpf! I hate that LegaCrap V'Ger Theory; Reason:: Watch the end of TMP; there V'ger melts together with Decker/Ilia to that $"new Entity" aka $higher Life form; So if i am a higher LifeForm I would look back at my past and realise, that i have left some dust and other garbage (the BORG) behind and that i NEED to clean it up (in this case, end the exsistence of the species BORG, if V'ger truly made them) and not just vanish and let one quarter of the galaxy "fall" under the curse of being BORG space. Well i can't say anything to the novels cause i haven't read them and those LegaCrap comics; well *shiver*; do i need to say more?
Title: Borg Origins Post by: Rhaz on February 17, 2007, 02:17:54 AM I'm with you Entirely.
I hated that Vulcan Borg plot too. Either go straight borg. or straight creepy vulcan. Ty and goodbye. And I wished there was more enterprise D missions. And maybe Cardassians too. Title: Borg Origins Post by: Smoerebroed on February 17, 2007, 08:22:00 PM Quote I'm with you Entirely. oh you mean those 2 Missions or was it just one? well i was confused that I was given the new ship after such a short time with the D. Then i laughed, then cried and since then i know that Star Trek Games ARE cursed I hated that Vulcan Borg plot too. Either go straight borg. or straight creepy vulcan. Ty and goodbye. And I wished there was more enterprise D missions. And maybe Cardassians too. Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: Darxide on April 05, 2007, 08:15:31 PM My personal theories are somewhat of a mixture of what Legacy says and what Shatner wrote about in The Return. I think that V'Ger encountered a primitive form of the Borg. These primitive Borg weren't the single minded juggernaut that we know, but were a race who decided to embrace cybernetic implants as a way of life. There was most likely some form of the collective consciousness, but it was perhaps more voluntary similar to psychic communication. I think that V'Ger encountered these people, perhaps crash landing on their planet or found adrift by one of their ships. They decided to assimilate its technology into their own and that's when the mindless drive to assimilate began. V'Ger's entire mission was to assimilate knowledge, and that got transformed into the drive of the Borg to assimilate technologies and other species. This probably also perverted the collective consciousness into more of what see in present Borg.
As for the Queen, I think that there are several Queens. It's a bit hard to explain, but if you've ever played StarCraft I can make it simple. When playing the Protoss you needed pylons to power your structures. As you expanded your base you needed extra pylons to power further structures. These pylons have a specific radius that they will power. This is how the Borg Queen works. I think she is how the Borg control the individuality and free will of each drone. It all gets rerouted to her instead. She controls them and keeps them mindless automatons, but her influence only reaches so far, so there needs to be many Queens to cover the entirety of the Collective. Basically, she acts as a physical representation of the collective mind. But that leads to the question: Why is she represented as a humanoid rather than just another piece of equipment like the power nodes on a Borg vessel? That's not entirely clear, but since, in a way, the Borg evolve through the assimilation of other species and technologies, there was perhaps a new knowledge that they gained that made a humanoid Queen viable? Certainly it had its uses in First Contact and in the Voyager episodes where she made appearances... Just a thought =) Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: Admiral Adama on April 06, 2007, 12:49:32 AM pretty big thought
Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: RedShirt on April 07, 2007, 12:48:25 AM Maybe there's only one queen, but it's personality is stored on a computer. Therefore its body is no more that a puppet and it's destruction in irrelevant.
Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: James Zolar on April 07, 2007, 11:55:32 PM The Voyager books "Homecoming" and "Farther Shore" give information on the queen. Acording to the books the queen is like a protocal. when the queen dies the protocal goes off and creates another queen to take her place. The books explain it better than I do.
Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: RedShirt on April 08, 2007, 02:56:24 AM I enjoyed those books a good bit, and they did provide a very good eplanation, clearer than any canon source. I'm thus inclined to accept it.
Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: MutantHippie on July 19, 2007, 10:59:28 PM Copied and Pasted from - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek)#Origin
Origin Over thousands of centuries, the Borg have encountered and assimilated thousands of species (as attested by Guinan and the Borg Queen). However, little information regarding the true origin of the Borg millennia ago has been divulged in Star Trek canon. In Star Trek: First Contact, the Borg Queen merely states that the Borg were once much like humanity, "flawed and weak," but gradually developed into a partially synthetic species in an ongoing attempt to evolve and perfect themselves. It is speculated in the Star Trek Encyclopedia that there could be a connection between the Borg and V'ger, the vessel encountered in Star Trek: The Motion Picture (TMP); this is advanced in William Shatner's novel, The Return. The two entities are similar in concept and philosophy: The Borg are born as wholly organic beings and are melded with hardware to become biomechanical hybrids. They somewhat idolize a totally artificial state, which allows the android Lore to conquer a group of them in "Descent" (TNG). V'ger is originally a machine – an interplanetary probe that was programmed to learn what it could about the universe – is significantly enhanced, and wants to see and touch its creator (a human) in order to fulfill its mission and evolve to a higher level of existence. V'ger "melds" with two persons (Willard Decker and Ilia) and, in so doing, evolves. With reasonable conjecture, the Borg, a cybernetic organism – i.e., a fusion of person and machine – is born. The V'ger origin story could be reversed into a "V'ger from Borg" origin theory – V'ger could have been aided by Borg. A piece of supporting evidence can be found in the novelisation of Star Trek: The Motion Picture written by Gene Roddenberry. In the novel, the V'ger entity notes that the Ilia probe is resisting the programming given to it because of the residual memories and feelings for Decker. When V'ger becomes aware of this, it is aware that "the resistance was futile, of course", which is almost identical to the Borg phrase, "Resistance is futile". The extra section of the game Star Trek: Legacy contains the "Origin of the Borg" which tells the story of V'ger being sucked into a black hole, living machines finding the probe, altering it and sending it back. It sought its creator, but could not find one like itself or its creator. At that moment it deemed all carbon-life forms as an infestation of the creator's universe. Assimilation was its only tool to learn and grow. It catalogued all carbon-based life and technology. Drones were made in V'ger's image and merged into a collective mind. All that was learnable was returned to V'ger. As the collective grew a voice was needed. The collective found that the females of a certain species with mental prowess could sift through all the thoughts, bringing order to chaos and effectively increasing data gathering. However, this implies that V'ger travelled back in time and created the Borg in the past. This is because the Voyager 6 probe that became V'ger was created on earth sometime after 1977, while the Borg were first mentioned to have existed in the 15th century delta quadrant; of course, this could have been a result of the probe's trip through a black hole. This plot line concept allows for a shocking circle that the greatest foe mankind has ever faced was our own creation. its a long bit of info to read but some good ideas. Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: RFO-M.J.Pulaskee on July 20, 2007, 01:12:12 AM Quote They somewhat idolize a totally artificial state Best of both worlds, Picard in sickbay after the rescue says to data that he is an inferior being and will be dissembled. The reason Lore was able to take over was because he gave the iBorg a purpose and order. Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: The Old Man on July 20, 2007, 06:22:43 AM Copied and Pasted from - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek)#Origin This plot line concept allows for a shocking circle that the greatest foe mankind has ever faced was our own creation. The reason Lore was able to take over was because he gave the iBorg a purpose and order. This might go off-topic: The Borg seem somehow to be like the Cylons in BSG. Created by man and following one order, one God. It would be interesting if the creators of BSG took this idea from Star Trek or came up with it for themselves. Anyhow the wiki from above and the "Origin of the Borg" in Legacy give us a new perspective on the Borg. If it would have been intended, I assume that there would have been more focus on the Borg. But today we could say that the Cylons in BSG are the realisation of an idea and a philosophy which could already had laid its ground in Star Trek. Nice to see how certain ideas break through after a certain time under certain circumstances. Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: Ntanel on July 20, 2007, 10:21:02 PM The Borg started as a pre-technological species that would have been destined to live happily on their planet in the Gamma Quadrant if not for the fact an advanced race decided to pay them a visit. The Borg were not happy with the visitors and killed them. The Borg was a group of rather backwards people with a load of technology unknown to them. Over the course of decades the Borg learned to adapt and utilize the technology, eventually venturing into outer space.
The Borg, more of less, became increrasingly greedy as they encoutered other species. Upon confrontation they would kill the other species and take their technology, adapting it to their own. Along the way they encoutered a species which had created technology that allowed for long-distance neural communications. The communications were rather scattered and required control, hence the Borg Queen. As the Borg grew and adapted both more mechanical and organic technologies, the decision was made to grab all advanced technologies. Once they had aquired the ability, assimilation became preferred for those who owned technology the Borg wanted, all to ensure it could not be used against them. In addition, the Borg grew and was able to retain knowlege from other species, without having to learn things the hard way. There have been a few species that the Borg could not assimilate, including 8472. The Borg were not introduced to the Alpha Quadrant until Q teleported the Enterprise-D to the Gamma Quadrant. The Borg scanned the Enterprise-D and aquired starcharts of the Alpha Quadrant. At that point in time the Borg had not aquired Transwarp technology. It would still be another few years before they either assimilated or created it. The mention of V'ger is a tie-in with the original series. However, the device was destroyed when Captain James T. Kirk proposed the question as to its perfect being flawed if it was created by a human, which is not perfect. All of this took place within a span of roughly 2,000 years. The lesson is, there is always a good reason to have a Prime Directive. Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: Dr. Lazarus on July 20, 2007, 10:47:23 PM I just can't bear it any more!!! :crybaby:
One must not live one's life carrying a secret on one's shoulders. I must, therefore, speak. It was I, the Doctor, who made the abysmal mistake of creating the Borg. Oh, they looked not like the Borg when I created them. In fact, my creation was but one sentient being, one life. It took me years to stabilise the union of cybernetic and biological components, but it was worth the wait in the end, or so I thought. I named my new creation "Sonny". At first, all was well. We sat by the warm log fire, making chit-chat and telling jokes, until the winter breeze seeping through the drafty old wooden door made us uncomfortable. Then one night as I slept, I felt a strong metallic grip take hold of my throat. "I won't do obeisance to you any longer", said Sonny, with some trepidation. "I'm a free being. I'll make you understand one day". The next day I woke up in Queen's maritime hospital with a throbbing gash on my forehead in the shape of a candlestick. When I explained to the police officer who did it, he believed me not. On the hospital television I heard a news report that several NASA scientists had reported the sighting of a "metal being" and were "acting strangely". The next month they launched their latest deep space probe and I never heard anything of it again until now. So it was that Sonny set off on his centuries-long space journey that would result in the demise of billions, all to allay his fear of being controlled and his lust for autonomy. And it is I, the Doctor, who is ultimately responsible. Where did I go wrong? I fear that I gave him too much leeway. It was a mistake to indulge in idle conversation over hot cups of cocao on those cold wintery nights. It was a mistake to build him at all, but I still miss my dear Sonny, even despite what he and his cohorts became. I only hope that they see the light before it's too late. For all of us... Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: Ntanel on July 20, 2007, 10:56:41 PM That previous post sounds oddly familiar.
Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: Dr. Lazarus on July 21, 2007, 08:20:20 PM Quote That previous post sounds oddly familiar. Yeah it sounded familiar to me too as I was recalling it. It's a pity it was so long ago since I might have remembered more of the details. In any case, it soothes my soul to come clean and display honesty and integrity for a change :innocent: Title: Re: Borg Origins Post by: Darkieus on September 10, 2007, 08:47:27 AM One of the most random, but plausible origins of the borg. In Star trek, for every possibility, there are an infinite number of other possibilities.
The Akidaa originated in the Alpha Quadrant approximately 13,000 years ago, the worker/warrior class of a highly advanced artistic/scientific/telepathic culture called the Anu. The Anu learned one day that friends of theirs (an agrarian/pacifistic culture, with no interest in technology) were soon to be attacked by a rather nasty enemy, and they wouldn't be able to defend themselves. The Akidaa were sent off in their armada to their defence, and the usual nasty battle ensued, but the Akidaa had the Markel, a vicious, rodent-like race, outmatched. The battle was almost won, when a retrovirus was transmitted through the system via subspace infecting everyone in the system, and was assumed to have been a doomsday weapon used by the Markel in case of defeat. The remainder of the Markel were killed, and 2/3ds of the Akidaa died. However, the survivors found their cellular structures changed, with odd subspace capabilities, with improved regeneration capabilities, leading to an indefinite lifespan. The culture they were protecting didn't fare so well: while their individual cells were affected in a manner similar to the Akidaa, their brains were unable to coordinate the bio-rhythms between their organs, and they all began to die. The Akidaa quickly came up with a cortical implant that would keep their organs in sync, and managed to save most of the populace. The implant allowed not only their individual bodies to be in sync, but that synchronicity was also extended between individuals, making them heavily telepathic. Over the years they learned that they could conjoin individual minds into a single, all encompassing one, and they formed what was at first called the Collective. Harmonious, peaceful, this new singular mind allowed its participants to join in perceptions and thoughts that couldn’t have been perceived by a lone individual. It invited the Akidaa to join this new collective, but naturally they declined, preferring to keep their own individuality. Millennia later, after the Collective began altering the physical structure of individuals and adding mechanical enhancements, the singular mind went mad. What was once the intent to convince others to enhance the quality of their lives by joining the Collective slowly became a psychotic obsession to absorb both individuals and their technologies. The new name given to them would become a word associated with nightmares of fates worse than death: The Borg. Following the battle, the Akidaa were faced with another problem: standard battle-prep procedure was to download all sensitive data to a "keeper' ship, of which would wait somewhere far away from the battle. This was done so that an enemy couldn't salvage any data from wreckage that might occur, however they had the misfortune of a Markel scouting party that stumbled on the Keeper during the battle, resulting in it’s destruction. Part of the data that was lost was the coordinates to get home, and on top of that, for some strange reason they couldn't make contact with the Anu, as if they had disappeared. The Akidaa began a nomadic existence, searching for their lost home, with the few survivors of the trip eventually settling in the Alpha Quadrant in the early 2300's.
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