Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations

i like guns and i wondered about you guies and if so what are your favorite guns. i personaly like the H&K G3, Beretta M92F, H&K G36,and the FN P90

i hate guns thare are fuwer and fuwer resons why a person needs a gun thes days.

the only perops a gun serves is to kill or destroy some thing.

thare are some use for gun still like hunting to reduse wild life arwond populated aresas.

why would some one use a  Beretta M92F, H&K G36, H&K G3 or the FN P90 where would not be much left of the pore animal.

guns? why would you need it, unless you want it to rust away in your desk. and i think the only use is in the wild when you are surrounded by mountain lions or a stampeding elephant is comming towards you. Then a gun is handy. don't want to die in that situation. ;)

oh and it is pritty cool in movies i mean otherwise you didn't had that famous  neo bullet matrix move you see in every cartoon / comedy. try that without bullets.  :omg: well you can do it without it but doesn't look cool and doesn't make sence.  :lol:

and the army needs it well, i mean chopping down is more social then long distance fire, then you get to know the people more and finally feel the guys guts when you push your sword inside him. but it is too bloody and messy and more deaths that way and get more people without limbs. ooh then you would finnally make android soldiers and get machine gun arms and stuff like in C&C so you could re-use soldiers twice. so i guess give soldiers swords :) then give them android machinegun arms and then deaths will be sliced by a half because soldiers missing limb can be used twice in the army.


in otherwords, who cares about guns? i know a friend of mine likes guns and have a whole bookcase about KGB guns how a silencers worrks with physics formuli, man his house looks like a training camp for Al Qaida.  but he likes to know everything about guns military and so on. it is good to have a hobby, some like to breed bunnies some like to own guns or talk about it.

because ewm, Cairo didn't state he had one, maybe he just used it at an practice range (it is an olympic sport), that is also an option or in games :)

I don't beleive that guns have much purpose outside of hunting and self-defence.  Of course, theres nothing wrong with keeping a collection of them, either.

the usa has realy good law informent a gun to the house is more a liability than a resnambule form of protection.

law informent are traned in how to use a firearms in a safe and responsible manner in the hands of a person how duss not respect a gun is a very dangerous situation that should be avoided at all costs.

and how says that the guns that are gotan for protection are use for protection thare is very lital over site.

the fewer guns the beter off we all are.

when guns are used in a unresponsible manner:

(http://www.deliaphotographic.builderspot.com/i/046.D_Elia.Uganda.JPG)
(http://www.linkingwithvictims.org/images/victims/shannonsmith_full.jpg) 14-year-old R.I.P.
(http://www.linkingwithvictims.org/images/victims/michaelsteber_full.jpg) Boy Scout, had run for class president R.I.P.
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(http://www.gun-locks-safes.com/images/kids1.jpg)

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(http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/01/06/guns_wideweb__430x291.jpg)

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(http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Documentaries/TextBlocks/1999/05/20/shootings256x256.jpg)

(http://i.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Photos/Fire.jpg)

(http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20000629/path29.jpg)

(http://members.tripod.com/~VanessaWest/columbine.jpg)

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now legal - (http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-09/14/xin_310901141457137252432.jpg)

with my samurai background, i have been taught that guns are not the weapons of a true warrior, Hense i use my swords: a Katana, Waki-Zashi & a Tanto.

Samurai- Ha! Thats nothing, I know yoga! lol

ewm you forget one thing, weapons aren't bad it is teh way they are used that can be bad same with a normal knife to eat with :) you can cut bread or stabb a guy to death. depends of the guy using it

i like weapons, i have loads of them, be it knifes, nun chucks, swords, guns or other stuff, they have not killed any one and they don't go outside my house, i would'nt mind hunting with them but i don't want to take them out incase somthing happens.

also ewm as roach said they are only dangerous in the hands of the wrong person i can't be asked to get a load of pictures but think of cars, think of hypodermic needels and finaly think of knowlodgeits rat in the right hands butin the hands of the wrong person well we all knw what will happen if terroists can build a nuke.

and thares only one thing guns are used for that i sed above thay are only used to kill or destroy.

knife are tools that have meny uses.



Eufnoc

way do you need a load of wepons are you scared some ones going to hert you? what hapined if some one broak in to the place you have your weponds and stoll tham. whats the pont of haveing guns that will never be used unless thay are historic like a antique.

a guns is a dedly wepond that shood be respected not collected if you need some thing to collecte triy base ball cards or stamps thare much safer.

(http://thumb16.webshots.com/s/thumb1/3/1/36/21430136yJHtXhXrGM_th.jpg) <-- funneral for a loved on shot with a gun.

you now for the 13th striat year in a row the amount of guns sold in the United States has increased while the crime rate in the United States has gone down reaching a 2 decade low

Ps the thompson kicks a**

gun vilets has gon up more pepal are ded. the reson crime has gon down is not do to guns its due to more cops on the street looking for tarists.

(http://www.blackanthem.com/TheAllies/2005082701b.jpg) <--killed by a gun

(http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0916/4984140_240X180.jpg)

(http://english.epochtimes.com/news_images/2004-3-23-23-hopeton-eric-brown_150v-copy.jpg) killed by a gun

(http://www.theconservativevoice.com/ap/img/XEM80607232357.jpg) frinds killed in a shooting spree

(http://www.ahalenia.com/memorial/images/mbloss.jpg) killed with a gun

(http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/not_guilty/koresh/3-1-ATF-agents-killed.jpg) ATF agents killed in gun battle

(http://www.hesperianbeacon.com/Millerinernet2.jpg) <-- Floydada Teen Killed in Tragic Gun Accident

(http://www.smh.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1033538721517_2002/10/03/nws_selinger.jpg)<--- Panels that killed boy were 'like a loaded gun'

(http://www.wagv.org/images/CrystalChavez.jpg) Crystal Garcia Chavez Killed by gun ...

(http://www.wagv.org/images/Gessica.jpg) Gessica Gonzalez Meraz Killed by gun ...

(http://avstop.com/news/gun.JPG) A Pacific Southwest Airlines British Aerospace BAE 146-200 Goes Down After Gun Shots Ring Throughout The Cockpit, All 43 people On Board Were Killed

(http://www.wndu.com/news/pics/pic_37236.jpg) Thirteen-year-old arrested in fatal shooting


Every Minute Someone Is Killed By A Gun

every minute people are killed by nives, cars and baseball bats should you take them a way to. It does not matter what there is in this world so one will always find a way to miss use it. its the people that are the problem not guns

more pepal die from guns that all uther intinchanal weponds combind x2.

If we disarm ourselves, we will be vulnerable, a weakness which others WILL exploit.

Basically guns are tools, and not a guns fault if someone shoots someone, its the persones fault. Personally I like talking about guns and I do know quite a bit about millitary machines. Though I dont own a gun.

 

most contrys works just fine with very limted guns.

are you realy that parinoyed that think thare are pepal out to get you, do you?

i have never owned a gun and i have ben just fine.

The BlacK BaRoN
but the problom is that meny pepal how will get guns will use tham inproperly and pepal will die that a fact. thare is no reson i can think of that is compaling anuff to keep guns in the hands of the public.

fresh meat

you are totally right ewm, starfleet is peacefull so why arm their ships? they don't need it. and limited guns according to you is still bad occording to you so you are contradicting yourself

we have farms for that and thay have much more humane and more efetive ways of proseing thare stock.

star trek is one thing and the real world is a nuther roach.

yeah you are right., i mean cows are being killed by a giant teaser weapon  (for their meet) and placed between the eyes that litterally shickes the cow dead with 100.00 volts.... much humane

as i sed be for thare are a few resons why guns are needed.
i can thing of no good reseon why guns need to be in the hands of the gunral public.

for the sport, or just feeling of being safe. they don't need to be loaded anywayit is like having a butchers knife for protection.

as i sed be for we still need hunting to cleer wiled life neer cittys to reduse over population.

if you are woryed about your saftty a gun wont help. i recoamend mintal helth servasis, or a trip to the poleice deportment.

guns can be stolin easly and used in crimes loaded or not thay shood not be peritted for pertetion the USA has a wonderfule law informent systom.

if you wont to keep a knife on you thats fine knifes art as dageris as guns are.

nope just one slice with a good sharp knife around the knife isn't deadly

one skwees of a tringer and 10 or more could be ded from far away.

for eny one life that is saved thosinds die from miss uses.

Well sure its too easy to get a gun nowadays, I think the solution is to make the standarts for inquireing a gun higher and pay more attention to illegal weapons sale.

About the cows thing, there is no humane way to kill a cow or any living animal for that matter, always there is something that someone will complain about.  

thats a nice thot The BlacK BaRoN but unfochintly the gun lobing orgs such as the N.R.A. make that very dicacolt we see how thay paiy off poltishons (coff) bush and leting the asolt weponds band drop.

we need to chage the hole bludy systom and the way pepal think about guns. we need campan reform hier checks and blainses and we need to egcate kids on the dagers of guns much more than we do now.

puting a few holes thow it and leting it bleed to deth wich can take an hower or so is not human and is not cost efective. guns are messy you whood need to cleen up after words.

Other intensional weapons?
People Stabbed to Death.
People Beaten to Death.
Chemical and Biological Warfare.
Mines and other explosivedevices.
Terrorist attacks (Which often do not involve guns).

I don't know, I'd say more people die from explosives and knives, than from guns.

And also on a side note.

The H&K G36C (CQB Carbine), K (Karabiner Shortened Barrel) and E (Export Rifle)
Are pretty cool guns, for their polymer construction, reliability and accuracy.
But those are merely for military purposes.
I see nothing wrong with someone owning a pistol, for self defence, sport, hunting, ect.
Its someones unique right to hunt, and to find sport with a firearm, and to defend themselves.

The only thing that bothers me, is when fully automatic concealable weapons (EG. H&K MP5K, Uzi (In most forms), Mac-10, Mp-7 ect) Can be aqquired in their original forms (Eg no pin stopping full auto, original caliber ect). That is not self defence, not everyone needs to tote around an AK-47/74/101 to defend themselves, all they need is a knife, a crowbar or a small pistol? Honestly, its not a horrible concept. And most people simply use them to deter a foe, rather then cap them in the *** with 6 bullets. And yes people die all the time, your country (As I am not American) has over 250 million people in it, so if 100 people die a year or even 1000, it is negligble as this is still a massive percentage of a safe public, even if one death is a tradgedy, you use these peoples deaths as statistics, when every country has violence, and this ability to own a personal defensive weapon has enabled your countries to go down.

(http://www.wagv.org/images/andre_holmes.jpg)

Andre Holmes, Jr.

Killed by gun August 25, 1999, at age 15


Andre was fifteen years old. He was liked by everyone. He enjoyed swimming, basketball, and breeding his dogs. He attended Crenshaw High School, where he had lots of friends. Although he was with us for only a short time, he left with us a lot of beautiful memories. Andrew will never be forgotten by all that knew him and loved him. He will always remain in our hearts forever. Goodbye, my love.


By Kimberly Gray, Mother

http://www.wagv.org/andre_holmes.htm (http://www.wagv.org/andre_holmes.htm)

i think what ewm was trying to say about the knives, was that there are far more uses for a knife than a gun. thats why knifes are freely sold as tools rather than weapons (yes i know there are instances of them being called weapons by those who sell them) with a gun they are sold as nothing more than a weapon. guns are tools but they are tools of a single purpose, when invented they were meant as nothing else but a means to kill. a knife im betting was invented for more practical uses but it was probably found to be just as effective a weapon as it was an everyday tool. bottom line: no guns, you dont need them.

thank you Cpt Ryan.

thats persily what i am saying. knifes arnt weponds unless used as such guns will all ways be weponds no mater how thay are used.

the less weponds that are avlibal to those who mite miss used tham the beter of we all are.

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(http://www.wagv.org/images/TimothyKoppos.jpg)

Timothy Koppos

Killed by gun date at age 12

Timothy Koppos was everyones friend. He had a sunny outlook on life and made people laugh. He enjoyed life like other twelve year olds. He played Nintendo, enjoyed riding his bike, collected Pokemon cards and loved to read Harry Potter books. His favorite animal was a wolf. He watched cartoons and professional wrestling and he loved to camp and fish even if he didn't catch one! He listened to Beach Boys music and other oldies, but he also liked Eminem. Most of all, Timmy liked helping other people. He wanted to grow up to be like his dad: a professional mover. He loved working with working crews and wearing his "Starving Students" t-shirt. He was the kid who was up for anything and he made everyone glad to see him.

Written by Timmy's father, Robert Koppos

http://www.wagv.org/Timothy%20Koppos.htm (http://www.wagv.org/Timothy%20Koppos.htm)

btw sop posting those deaths, i mean come on, there are just as most deaths with other weaposn as with guns, but you just picking out the most shocking ones. they are just normal people that were just murder victimes, i can show you alot of docter death victims that have died or people who died by being poisoned.

and let see where the guns comes from, basically it was derived from the bow and arrow that was used in war and for hunting.  and rockets must be plain evil aswell. i mean they only bring death and destruction but without it we douldn't go to the moon. ( unless some people believe that is a hoax). guns are now only used for war, but back in the old days also was a sport and for hunting even now, guns are needed to keep certain types of animals controlled populated (and that is not an evil thing)


and besides guns aren't evil it's the people they use it. you don't blame the plane for crashing into WTC, you blame the person who did it. same with a murder with a gun. you don't blame the gun, but the person. normal people don't play with electricity, but if someone died by putting his tongue or a fork in a socket and died you don't blame electricity.

do thay bother you roach? thay bother me two thats why i am posting tham to make a pont. eny ones deth is shocking to me no one more than kids.

thare are far more deths with guns than eny uther inchanal way. look at contrys like the UK that limet gun use look at thare merder rates.

yeas the pepal how use thare are the ones how are rong. but why in the world would we make a wepond that lets tham to it faster and beater. thare is no reson pepal use have guns unless thay are part of the milatry, law informent, or hunting.

Guns in the hands of the gunral puplic is has no exsuse and is just plan rong.

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(http://www.wagv.org/images/FatishaPettus.jpg)

Fatisha Pettus

Killed by gun April 7, 1998, at age 21


Fatisha Pettus was 21-years old and the only child for her mother. She was a licensed vocational nurse, working for Tender Loving Care, home hospice patients which she loved dearly. She was with 349th General Hospital Company Army Reserve.

She was studying to be a Registered Nurse at Southwest College. She took the Long Beach Police test and passed, and was waiting for the background check when she died.

She enjoyed working with children. She loved her family and friends dearly. She loved comics, dancing, vacationing, movies, shopping for bargains and eating out with co-workers.

By Rubie Ridgeway, Mother

http://www.wagv.org/pett.htm (http://www.wagv.org/pett.htm)

man, you sound just like CNN at any major disater, they shift through all the worse cases and just pick the worse off person just to get the best response out of the vieuwers. it's like a blooddy jerry springer show. should i start showing all the children in basran that died in the school by tsjechen( or how you spell it) terrorist. because explosive are bad and think of all the children that died. it so hypocritical with all your posts.


but i might not be right there.

there shouldn't be a right to have a gun but there is one. and it doesn't even make a differance becayse if someoen wants to kill a person seriously, he would get a gun without going to a legal store or do it in another form. you won't remove all the murders with it, only less accidents with it. people will find ways to kill a person if they want them dead. can't stop that.

I have heard about the debate of weapons on this site and thought that I should exercise my right to free speach as well as my 2nd amendment right to "own and bear arms".

The founders of our great country knew that the rights of the people could not be protected unless the government had limited power and the people could defend thier right.

For people to say that guns are not necessary today dont know the facts. The sale of guns has risen in the past decade and the national crime rate has decreased for the past 13 consecutive years!! This is not because people are becoming less corrupt. It is also not because of the number of police on the streets. It is because people are not going to let crime scare them.

The time to buy guns is now when there is peace and it is not illegal. That way, when the time arises to fight for the existance of our country due to foreign invaders or liberal presidents we will have the necessary firepower to defend ourselves.

So buy up all the assault rifles and 30 round magazines you can now before more restrictive laws are made.

Long live America and the PRESIDENT BUSH!!


:tank:  :2guns: :wub: GUNS FOREVER :wub:  :2guns:  :tank:  

crime has descreasted be cuss of tecnolgy and inprovments to law inforsment. guns help crime guns dont stop crime if in the hands of the junaral population. we have all ways had guns Dirty Harry if you argument was truw crime would not need to descres if guns where the ansser.



gun crimes have not decersted at all. Gun crime have incresed.

I would like to know what sources you are getting your information from because I have not seen the information listed anywhere.

Please also proofread your post so it is easier to read. I had a little trouble deciphering what you wrote. I had to have my pet chicken translate. He knows "scratch".  :D  

i have dyslexia.

tiying to fixs stuff i say is offin more trubal than it is worth.

evindents

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2640817.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2640817.stm)

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCount...id=98678&page=1 (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCounting/story?id=98678&page=1)

you have to be care full whare you get your info thares alot of cruption and opinons in mey news reports. looks at astabilshed meda soreses with repudabule and fare reporting.

if what you wheer saying more guns meen less crime iraq should be the most peace full place on earth right?

there really is no need to be offensive :mellow:

im sure when knifes were first invented, knife crime went through the roof :rolleyes: , but as we know guns have been around for some time now and i know that here in the UK gun crime is going up. the more people who own guns there are, the more people there are who will want to "try 'em out". You never been tempted to try out your gun?. i can honestly say that i have been tempted to take my swords to people i dislike, so its only natural that if you have the power to do something you will do it.

offensive? hows being offensive?

i shere when knifes where out it was a problom arwond that time thare is evadents that a hole race of smaller hummins where wiped out.

i hope if what i am reading from you Cpt Ryan is right?

the more people who own guns there are, the more people there are who will want to "try 'em out".

god i hope thats not truw WE ARE DOOMED lol.

but serisly.
guns are the most lethal and easy to use wepond ever invinted. if used inproperly wich evanitbaly it will can be a mager problom one man with a gun can kill larg nubers of pepal with out thinking about it to hard.

mabye we should just take more care in choosing who to issue firearm liscences to.

that would be a start. all so adding hevy restiction of what kinds of guns can be ishowed many hunting rifals and a cupal of small hand guns to the gunaral puplic eny thing else is crasy to me.

makeing the linth of a lisent gratly shorter reqiring more frinqint renowing of lisents.

making it ilegal to own a fier arm with out a triger lock. limiting the amont of bulits that a clip or gun can hold to 6 whood be a good idea.

all hand guns sold must have a traking devise inplanted in it all so ading if the devise is reoved the gun will not work. it will incress the price of he gun wich is ok to me we dont wont to make thes thing afordabule.

You have to be careful where you get the information from I agree. I read somewhere recently (dont remeber the magazine) :blush:, but Mike Wallace was recently seen at a pro-Brady Law reception where he spoke against guns and wrote the hosting foundation a check.

I do not believe that people who openly show biases should be allowed to be reporters and news anchors. We already get so much twisted material through many of the news agencies that we do not need the "stars" form the network going out and endorsing the subjects that come up on a regular basis either for good or for bad.

ewm90's article from BBC remided me, I was only speaking of crime rates in the United States. Maybe the crime has risen in England and I am sorry form not specifying my region of debate.

Also, the process of getting a gun permit in the US is not an easy process (atleast in Connecticut but I believe that it is the same or very similiar in all states). You must attend a firearms safety class from a certified instructor that the state can sit in and watch whenever they want too. He must demonstrate and have the students replicate the proper procedures for firearm safety or he cannot sign off on thier certificate. The applicant must then go through SEVERAL background checks and cannot have commited a major felony. The applicant must also submit 3 character refereneces that have know him/her within the last 10 years. Then there is about a 3 month waiting period.

Not easy for sure.

but we keep hearing about kids with mass collections of the most dedly guns in the world in thare bed rooms some thing is not working.

thare are guns for sale in the USA that are more powerfule than the mitatry and law informent use that can shoot thow 5 inch - 6 inch armr.

thare are guns for saile that have a nuff builts in tham to take out crowds of pepal with out reloding.

you can buy bulits that brake in to shrapnel makeing the recovery of a person how gets shot very unlikly. we have bulits that expoled on impact. thare are bulits that are desined to go thow bulit proof armer like the cops whare. thare are bulits that do all kinds of nasty stuff.

i have herd reports of forin armys or militants coming to amrica to buy arms that are not avilbal at such cheap prise eny whare elss thay clame.

This is totally unexsepibale to me. America is the a land of peace not a huge gun store.

kids don't have guns. they only bring that at public places because the parenst are uhmm how to place it.. not so well educated like their children. ignorence places a big part with that if they show their chhilderen how many guns they have and wher ethey stash it  or let them learn how to use it.


and like with guns,

there are just as deadly knife or explosives variants on the market . and the current policy about aquiring a gun is very good. you can't have a minorty report like situation. i mean how can you tell when a normal good person get deranged 10 years later and starts shooting. oh wait that is why you have the patriots act or something, that sounds reasonable.

(http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Documentaries/TextBlocks/1999/05/20/shootings256x256.jpg)
thare rooms wher full of shot guns asolt weponds hand guns rifals knifes and boms.

thare was a nuther story resontly in the news about a girs boy frins how shot her parnts to deth be cuss thay told the boy frin cood not see thare dotter eny more and the boy frind after shooting the dotters parints got the dotter and ther in a hi speed car chase after that. the boy frinds room was full of guns.

and thare are meny of uther such bone chilling storys.


guns are inpersanal wepond to kill aperson with a knife you have to hate than alot. to kill some one with a gun you dont have to hate tham.

a person with a knife can be diss armed. a person with a gun it is 50x harder to disarm tham with out geting shot.

to kill some one with a singal nife stab is hard and very horeific. to kill some one with a singal gun shot is so much easer.

bombs are harder to conseel and reqier more planing thay are dagrise to the user and meny times thay dont work if not set up crecly. bomns and not the mane chose of most killers.

i cant beleev your aguwing this with me roach i have more than provin my pont. i am being to thing you are just agowing for the sake of argument.

you should wach this movie it shows how the gun indistry helps coses such harifc tragitys
(http://adorocinema.cidadeinternet.com.br/filmes/bowling-for-columbine/bowling-for-columbine-poster01.jpg)

Even with that girl you just mentioned it is not the guns falt that it shoot her parents you have to admit you have to have something seriously wronge with you to beable to peposly kill someone like that and I think it is just as likely that he would have killed her parents by some other means if he was that deranged.

I highly dought that the boy friend bought all those guns legaly people under 18 cann't even legally buy a rifle and you must be over 21 to own a pistol  

so this ferths my case guns can not be controled and should be suvrly limted. it mite not have saved that guirls parints but it whould have saved lots of lives in conimine and lots of uther traditys.

the guns came from the boys parints it by mim serves me right as thay did in conimine two.

hello do you think these people are buying atimatic weapons from reputible gun stores they are buying them on the black market there are good controls on the selling of guns right now people should focus on illegal gun traficing not on restricting the sale of guns that ligitimently want to buy them.
 

from what i herd thay bout that from reputabule gun store.

from what i under stand at lest of of the kids fothers had a lisnse if i remiber crecly.

thes pepal wher evry day pepal thay wher not crimanls untill thay comited the crime. althos the boy how shot her girl frinds parints had dun some ilegal things be for.

the colaimbind kids wher trubals hiscool studants  but wher not crimnals as for as i know untill thay comited the crime.

thare have ben more than a few pepal how comite gun crimes with lital or no worning sines.

i sher most guns that are used in crimes are paiyed for ligal at one pont.

and if we cant controle dugs what make you thing we can stop guns that are all arownd us.


WHAY DO WE NEED ASOLT WEPONDS OR WEPONDS OF WAR ON OWER STREETS?

evin if i thot cracking down on ilegal wepond sales whould work we no longer have the luxury of that eny more do to the masive det we naw have we need to start meking tuff destions.

I would like a p 90 or a thompson

Guns are dangerous! Don´t let children play with it. You are a child as long as you find weapons funny or cool. Even if u find it necessary you are foolish. Sry for that direct statement but I had to say this.

I agree that guns should not be thought of as funny. They are in the list with other things that are not funny such as fireworks, automobiles, flammable substances, alcohol, etc.

These things should be treated with respect and should only be handled if and only if you have the proper knowledge to do so. However, even though people can aquire a drivers licence, that does not mean that they will not speed or hit someone else. Speeding is a crime (i hate to hear that the much as the next person, but its true) that is a premeditated one. Someone does not just go fast unknowingly unless they are drunk, but thats another can of worms. By reasoning like this, it seems that people are capable of small premeditated crimes on a regular basis. Why couldn't this grow to a larger scale to include cheating on taxes, stealing copyrighted material, and even murdering someone?

Once you allow yourself to start down a "crime" road, the harder it is to not find ways to justify what you are doing.

The issue is not controlling the sale of guns, but controlling the inherent evil that people will always try to commit. We need more people to go to the chair in prison to set an example that people will not want to follow. Live in prison with large screen TVs, Premium cable, and never an empty stomach sounds quite appealing to alot of people. Someone needs to break that glittery image and return prison to the aweful place it was meant to be.

why do we evin need gun uther than hunting law informent milatry and emergisy servis?

why do we need wepons that are desined to kill lots of pepal fast on ower streets?

well if all those weapons are removed ther still going to be murders, unless you want any heavy or sharp object to be removes  

the idea is to reduse merders ofcore you cant get rid of merders.

If you can save evin one life why not do it?

The original intent of the Second Amendment was to allow citizens to have firearms to prevent the government from gaining to much power and creating a dictatorship.

Is that what you want? If we lose the right to bear arms, how soon after will we lose the freedom to peacably assemble and the freedom of speech?

SO guns are bad eh? so then isant america bad. americas made of 3 Gs, GUNS GOD and Guts. guns also save lives ired a story some woman was beng attacked by a pack of dogs ehale she was bringing in her gerocies. her husband (who diddabt have a gun) was panicking a neighbor saw and came out of his house weilding a Colt .45 automag and shot the dogs they all ran in fera as one lie dead. their neighbor sabed their life.

IM in a NRA famly btw and assult weapons have ben leagel for years.
and ewm how come the police couldent stop the looting in katrina?

btw welcome to the form Dirty harry

actualy you haveto be 2 years old to own a gun you have to be 21 to buy one, also accurieing an auttomatic weaopn is a big pain you pay $200 a year and the gonverment can inspect your house when ever they want

no the orenonal intint was to bust the army when it was in formation from what i hard. ether way thay serve no peropuse to day.

waw your have gon of the deep in with the gun propagnada. most of the sivilsed word has alot more restrishons on gun use than we have and thare goverments work beter than ower in alot of ways.

oh have I have I? before hitler took over do you know what he did? he took away all the guns from the civillians

and gining guns to ower gunral puplation had nuthing to do with hitaler...

i can bleve what i am hering her it make untraly no cens.

guns are not need no ones going to tern the use in to a dicater ship we have checks and balinss to plervint that.

guns in the gunral poplation just creat trubal. all this disinformation is coming from crute oranasation like the NRA and gun manufacters. the NAR and gun manufachers are a perfict exsampal of how corations are munuplating consumers and ower goverment.

as i said ewm guns are no worse than cars in the right hands they are fine (ie in the hands of the army or police they can defuse a hostage situation or control a crowd by intimidation) and a car in the hands of a responsible person they are a great tool in the hands of a woma... umm irasponsible person :P they are dangerous. and the reason i have that many weapons is purely for property defense and as they look good on my wall.

come on pepal make comin cens her you seem to be so stuck on guns you wont lison to eny thing that mite thrin it.

you left off cars kill be unintichanly most time. most guns are made kill pepal intchonly.

i am all for the polise haveing guns and the army and hunter but not evry one elss.

WE HAVE A GRATE LAW INFOSEMENT ORGANASHIN GUNS JUST MAKE LAW INFORESMENT MUCH HARDER.

when clinton was in power he interdused the asolt wepond band. be for the asolt wepond band gun craimes where much hiyer after makeing the band gun crime droped.

thare is no evadens that guns reduse crime. thare is evadens that guns incress crime.

and what if those people aren't intimidated, i dont think i have to remind you of "bloody Sunday". a very big reason why western countries no longer use guns for crowd control.

mine (although very real) are cerimonial  :D  

Search for the reason why the dogs attacked the person. I promise you it was another person who made the dogs behave like this. Animals NEVER kill other lifes because of hate, geer or other low motives - even if they could like they kill other lifes to survive with their toxic, dentures etc. - entirely in opposite to us. If there is evil on earth all the time, without exception, human beings has something to do with it or is direct actor. I know that this will come to no end, but i also know that it´s like it is. A hopeless situation. What is missing is a very deep feeling for each other that you all know. We are so primitive to think weapons are a necessity.  

thare you go Jan gets it.

thare well all wayse be crimals and allways crimanls.
why do we need to arm the crimanls?

In my opinion, guns are bad exept when used by the military, law enforcement, or hunters.

Also, collections are fine.  

And, have you ever thought of it in terms of a sport?  Shooting is a very real one.

we are in arement  [=!=]RedShirt.

exsept for the clecting part of all the things to colect weponds? basce ball cards, stamps just not guns.

i love guns, all guns. but i feel that for domestic purposes there should be limits.

what does someone need with an assault rifle, submachine gun, or a street sweeper? pistols & shotguns are fine by me, but anything else is a little over board. Oh, and I’m very good with knives too.

Now as for the weapons I like best.

1. pistols: Sig Sauer sp2340 (.40 cal), HK USP 40 or 45, and a five seven.
2. Sniper\hunting rifles: winchester 70, M-90 (bolt action sniper rifle), SWS-24, HK MSG-90
3. Assault rifle\carbine: HK G-3, HK G-36a, AKS-74M, Styer Aug, and FN Fal.
4. Submachine guns: HK MP-45, HK MP-5/10, Colt Commando, and FN P-90

i don't own a single gun BTW. don't need one.

ewm...if you bannish all weapons people are going to throw stones or simply take sticks to harm someone else. It always has been like that. Certainly it is better to restrict weapons for civilian ppl but there has always been exceptions, too, so finally it makes no sense. The world is down. If one would delete all weapons in a country, even weapons for defense others would come and invade it. Could be that we all need more time to become rational, could also be that we´ll never learn it and in the end blow up our lonely homeworld. Game Over .

Since we all know that people will always find ways to hurt and kill other people, I think that the arguement should be with the accidental deaths that firearms cause. But firearms do not cause the most or even close to the most accidental deaths each year.

Here is a list from Soyouwanna.com (http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/toptens/accidents/accidents.html) that gives the averages of the top ten most common causes of accidental death in America.

10. Machinery -- 350 deaths/per year
9. Medical & Surgical Complications and Misadventures -- 500 deaths/per year
8. Poisoning by gases -- 700 deaths/per year
7. Firearms -- 1,500 deaths/per year
6. Suffocation -- 3,300 deaths/per year
5. Fires and burns -- 3,700 deaths/per year
4. Drowning -- 4,000 deaths/per year
3. Poisoning by solids and liquids -- 8,600 deaths/per year
2. Falls -- 14,900 deaths/per year

And #1 the one that we should worry about the most because it is causing the most problems

1. Motor vehicle crashes -- 43,200 deaths/per year

So instead of trying to persuade us to get rid of the guns in America, you should be trying to get Americans to drive safer and work on their balance skills because crashes and falls are what is killing most of them. You could also try to ban plastic bags from supermarkets to prevent suffocations which cause more than double the accidental deaths than guns.

Somehow I dont think this will help you see it differently ewm90, but I home some of the other members will see what people should be more concerned about.

What counts is the spiritual background.

ahh but it  was never prven if the crowd fired first like they said.

well that is trow as i have staed over and over thare will all ways be crimals.

But why to we need to have weponds of war on the streets that thay cane use to tripal or more the amont of damge thay do.

guns only Hert!!!

I believe that guns in collections should have the fireing mechanism disabled

i believe a lot of guns out there do have there firing mechanism disabled, but there is a black market out there specializing in reactivating guns.

Then they should be hunted down and eliminated.  We can use automatic weapons.

have you never heard the saying "slay a captain and his liutenants will take his place"
meaning you take out one bad guy and a couple of newer ones will take his place.

Why let them take their place?  The government should take over the industry so the thugs can't come back  :P

Another possible option is to kill his lietenants, too....  A mass nuclear strike should do the job

well in the usa you can buy fully adimatic wepons that are more pawerfulle than the ones used in the US milatry at meny guns stores and thats ligal right now.


if the guns are fully disabuled and cant be made to work at all i think thats ok.


i think we are on the same page [=!=]RedShirt.

*checks his book*

I'm on page 236, what page are you on?

 :P lol j/k  ;)  

i see you missed the point there, my point was, if you kill one person another will take his place, REGARDLESS of whether they are part of the same crew, (or whether they were someone smaller waiting for their chance).

nah i think there is always gonna be someone out their with the knowledge of how to reverse the process. think the only way to truelly get rid of a gun is to melt it down.

hmmm in that case, lets just kill everyone!  We got the nukes...

well not if what is in side the gun as ben fussed to gether in to a metal mass. to the pont the gun only looks like a gun on the out side.

oooooooo a collectable!

I just want to ask ya all something. I see this arguing about the black market and there is a new movie about ti: The lord of war with Nicholas Cage. A good movie, I like it :)

Well anyhow in there u can see how he sells weapons to all sorts of people, eventhough he knows what they will be used to and tries to justify his actions in all sorts of ways.

Really good movie, you should watch it :)

well in the usa you dont need a black markit. if you know what gun stores to go two you can get all most eny thing with lital checks.

The lord of war that did not seem like a real documentry. thats just a shooting movie with lots of exspoltions.


for egesampule i wached a 60 min report on a guy how was port of a faction in the serbin vs cosovo conflick that is and was bying those hi powered armimer pering guns i tolked about in an erlirer post.

he was buyinh 50-100 guns at a time and shipping thow over seas to privit army.

i donno, but it sounds like a pritty big fear of gun in any way. but might be me thinking that.

better watch out you don't fall because that is nr 1.banning gun or removing the trigger isn't the sollution. btw who want to buy a gun without a trigger? what is teh use of that, buy the real looking waterguns then, they are even illigal in holland if you go through customs here.

I dont know which movie you watched but the one I mean there isnt a lot of shooting at all and who the **** said it was a documentary?  :huh:  It is based on a real story though :)

hmmmm I might go rent it sometime...

more people die in the us from gun shootings then the rest of the world in 1 year. i think the Americans ( the ones that love guns) should grow up, and smell the blood they b wollowing in! you only need a gun for peotection if the person next to you has a gun. so stop with the guns! it's just common scense. or go join the army if you want to play!

realy thats hard to bleeve i think it would be iraq. if you meen the EU that sownds more polsabule.


 you only need a gun for peotection if the person next to you has a gun. so stop with the guns! it's just common scense. or go join the army if you want to play!

i agree that is totaly true

na man it's ture that's what's so scary about it. i think the satistics were for 03.plus you have to remember that the US is a pritty big place Irac is only a 'small' country (i use that term losely)

yeah you don't need a gun when soemoen is going to kill you with another deadly weapon :D

I thought we had already been through this! We cannot prevent people from killing one another. We can only prevent accidental deaths by limiting the sale of weapons. There will still be millions of weapons in the country and even more coming in day by day throught the black market. The people who want someone dead will buy the gun throught those means and kill the person. There is nothing you or anyone else that could do anything to prevent that.

The limitation of the sale of firearms would only prevent accidental deaths. Also, most of the accidental deaths are because people mishandled the weapon. We cant stop people from being stupid either. Its just a fact of life.

Why cant you anti-gun people see that removing guns from the general population would not accomplish what you are looking for. I feel like I am repeating myself ( probably because I am  :(  ) and none of you acknowledge that accidental deaths are the only type of preventable ones!!!

this is it. this is a very inportent thing to peroving ether sides pont so we will probly keep going over it.

be cuss we can see thare are contruse with much loss gun laws that have less crime and alot less merders.

when we had a asolt wepond band it lowerd crime. with out the gun band crime gose up.


when guns are givin to pepal how may used tham for illegal resons or may not respect and sucre thare guns in a aproperit manner things will go rong.

all pepal in this world have deirant vows on evry thing evin in how to use a gun crecky most of the pepal under the law can have a gun if thay go thow the systom.

 the systom duss not and cant check up on the pepal now and than to see if thay can use thare gun crecly.


thare is no such thing as a derdy harry or some supper hero how will run thow the streets shooting bad guys. most of the time is bad guys runing thow the streets shooting good guys.

tought learner. then besically or be some big mama's boy of a presoident and just ban guns and just patroll teh trees and check every house random every day at another hour if they are well protected and have no gun.s

or let people be individual and make their own stupid mistakes and responsabilities  when purchasing guns.

but its not the only the pepal how buy guns that paiy is all so the pepal how get shot with the guns thay buy how paiy.

we cant afort and asume thay will learn or paiy.


when you pull a triger of a asolt wepond the bulits dont only go in to your taget in most cases thay go in to things neer your taget to wich can inclode kids, woman, and men.

evin hand guns are not accerit meny times when a gun is feird the bulit will miss aspeshal if the tagit is moving.

Then we should have everyone take marksmanship courses so that there are less stray bullets  :lol:  

evin the best markman cant get all of his blits from a asolt wepond to hit a targit at evry distants..

Assault weapons tend to be terribly inaccurate

hold on you can't make gun makerst if bullets don't follow a straight line, most part is the human factor and weather conditions, try shooting a bullet when you are frozen with fear and in a hurricane bet 99% of the bullets won't hit the target.

oh now i know for which party you are ewm ( see older forum) a ducth christian party, verco conservative had the same kind of ideas about people like you that society is is too individualistic and due to the 60's and the goverment need a better hold on how people give respect to each other and give corses  to teach them. for instance in holland they want courses for devources so that people devource less and just stick together unhappy for children and that the government should help decide with abortions etc etc.

a society only learns from its own mistakes, you can't stop every wrong doing or you will get mindless sheep or something like that. kinda like big brother.


anyway assault and automatic guns are in accurate because of the backlash it gives. if you fit it on a sturdy mechanical armm that that absorbes the backlas it should be a a bit less inaccurate

well the problom is that the humand hand is not stedy and the gun shakes vilintly when fired.

i am a democrat the donkey on my sig is the logo of my parry. the us is a 2 parrty systom the uther partty the republicans have a elefant as thare logo.

the problom in the usa is the presadent in power how is a repulican is doing thins that my parrty the demacrats find totally offensive and morley rong he duss not rech aross parrty line much and in fact he has crated a polarization between the two partty.

well if we dont try to stop whats rong this will spiral out of controle. we have 2 parttys to have check in ballinses the repulican parrty is in controle now and is a busing pawer menny repulicans for exsmapal have ben fownd to have ben being bribed for favers crupshion is rampied.

guns will all ways be inaccurate humins are in inaccurate. + menny pepal how use tham are not good a shooting.

well isn't it stating the obvious that noone is like robin hood. it is like stating that no man can jump over a a sky scraper  

it's all rite it was friendly fire! lol

ewm90's comments about democrates and republicans can apply to when anyone is president. When Clinton was trying to be president, there were alot of things that Republicans hate to see legislated. It always go back and forth.

Stop blaming Bush for evey little trouble we have in America. If you dont like it, move to Canada or France or Afganistan where people have far less freedom and are always trying TO COME HERE. Why do people want to come to America... because its the country that allows the most freedom. We have something good going here and its people like ewm90 that want to remove the freedoms granted in the Bill of Rights that make America the great place it is.

We need to protect our freedoms not limit them.

this is the hole 'it's my god given right thing' isn't it. in which case i stongly disagree with anything or anyone that uses that as an excuse to justify anything that want to do.  

I couldn't have said it better myself.

this is what i sed

the problom in the usa is the presadent in power how is a repulican is doing thins that my parrty the demacrats find totally offensive and morley rong he duss not rech aross parrty line much and in fact he has crated a polarization between the two partty.

well if we dont try to stop whats rong this will spiral out of controle. we have 2 parttys to have check in ballinses the repulican parrty is in controle now and is a busing pawer menny repulicans for exsmapal have ben fownd to have ben being bribed for favers crupshion is rampied.
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no that bot thrue when clinton was in power he brot both parrtys to gether to work to gether we may not have all ways agreed but we all ways found midal grownd.

with bush we have come down to filldabusters and stolling tactics huge polaratione to the pont of the senate blocking all most evry thing from the presadent becuss of stupied disagreemants and not or lital atimpes to rech acroos the tabule.

i am not blaming for evry problom just the ones he is resposabule for or the ones he cude have fixed. i have thout about moveing to Canada but i love american and onnt to help make it better. humm i dont see a mass exsaduss from Canada or France thay are happy thare. if only we cood lern from Canada.

i have seen less and freedoms in the last 5 years. freedome is grate but freedoms
is not evry thing you can be free but wiht out opertunity, or safty freedome wont be the ferst thing on your minde. persadent bush has vilated the bill of rights with his domestic spyng program and i am woryed he mide do more in the fucher.

well thare is more than the bill of rights than i am woryed about rights that ae garintyed by law not the bill of rights those can be chages polacys that i see as inportent to american can be chaged.

i am woryed that ower presadent is doing. ower presendent liyes and i dont tust a liyer. he sed he whood bring fiscal back to the white house and the governt he has crated a titale wave of cruption. he sed he whood pertect america the 911 comison report gave him a F on pertecting american not to michon his failur of katreena. he sed he whood fix imagration he hass mesed that up and made if realy confusing for ilagal imagratin. he sed he whood bring dmacrats and repulicans to gether he has crated a polaerasation. he promised to decrees the defasite he has bloted it to recered braking levals.

O and all most forgot thare that hole links to alkida and WMD is a slam dunk.

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back to guns why do we need guns?

One more small comment before we return to the gun issue.

While Bush has been president, there have been some of the worst natural and human disasters that have ever been recorded. You cannot assume that someone else would not have made the same choices had they been president.

Most of the time Bush does not have the leisure of waiting a long time to make his decisions. As the saying goes "haste makes waste", but that refers to everyone not just Republicans.

I am not saying Bush never makes mistakes, but alot of other people would have made the same decisions had they been in his boots.

woohoo another tread turned into politics... was't that one of my predictions some in my first posts of this thread

well i know for a fact that if some one elss was presadent thay would have not make the same mitakes as bush despineding on how. the path bush is taking is one that his parrtys has ben wonting to take for a long time the path had never ben tested be for. the demacrats did not agree with his path so i am sher if it has ben a demacrat or indapinet how had won the presindesy we would have taking a difrant path.

pepal afectied by katreena would bege to differ. thare are meny ishow the presadent deages his **** on delling with such has meeting with the black kolles, adreesing meny domestic problom. fowing up is a huge problom the presdent has.

well lets not make the same mistake 2 times or sould i say 3 times we did relect him.

eny ferther repliy pleace post in the Poll: New Orlean Reconstruction political thread about new orleans. i am gona deem it the political thread for evry thing.

histroy all has shown over and over in american that the best american presadents where {moderits} or could rech acrose the tabule and worlk with the uther side in a fare and frindly way.
____________________________________________________________________
back to guns

Guns are dangerous in the hands of dangerous and unexperienced people. In the right hands they are safe and can be a lot of fun.

Ill try not to bring politics back into this if you dont ;)  

but by puting thay in the hands of safe pepal you make tham avilbal to the pepal how wont to harm.

and most of the time the papal how wont to harm look like thay are safe.

fore harm is cosed by guns than beafits.

I my self have used a gun or two in the past and can see the apeal of haveing the power in ones hands if atrative. but i all so relise the putinchal harm a gun can do in the rong hands.

maybe america should cut down on co2 emitions! and sigh up to the contrackt that brition and other countrys have. how can a country that doesn do the right thing then go and acuse and dictate to countrys what they can and can't do. ie, nuclear issus.

Oh, yes, and I'm sure Clinton was esspecially truthful... its not like he had an extra-marital affair or something dishonest like that....

pleace keep eny reliys to the katrena thread pleace i will repily thare.

Okay, heres the New Orleans reconstruction (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/neworleans.htm)

Well if people look safe then how is anyone going to tell that they mean to do harm? That could also apply to someone looking really pretty, but having a lousy personality. There are just somethings that you cannot tell about people until stuff happens. Or perfectly sane people sometimes become schizophrenic and off the wall. That is unpredictable and unstoppable.

Sometimes stuff cannot be prevented even with the best planning. And the best planning is not eliminating all of what the suspected problem is.

well i'd say that would be a big start :P  

we have no use for guns in the guneral public thay ether are toys to pepal collecters idoms or for paranoid people a sefty blanket.

guns serv no fuchtion eny more in the hands of the gunral public unless it hunting.

Just let them blow each other to heck.  I'll just move to New Zealand and come back when its over  :P  

sounds like a good idea exsept i likt canida more non frich speeking canida.

Cant stand Canada.  They make Boston look conservative.

canada has more guns per-person then the united states does, with hardly any gun related crimes. so if guns are the cause of all the death in the states how come canada hasn't wiped itself out yet?

ok first off in ordre to own an automatic weapon (which lots of people do) first you must get a class three license which costs $200 second before you buy the auyyomatic weapon you must sign a sheat that goes to the gonverment and tells them everything about you includeing your psycholagical profile all this is reviewed ovre an 8 day pirod. then if the check is ok the police will bring it to your house make shure that it has a place to be locked up. and then at anny time anny law enforcement man can either inspect it or simply take it away. if you do anny crime you loose it and things are worse if you have more then one.

   second an auttomatic is not inaccurate at all only the marks man is on auttomatic anny thinh will have kick. nowone will fire on auttomatic becaus of two reasons A. you are innacurate B. it hurts your sholder and your ears C. you will empty a 40 round clip in 5 seconds.

third (lol) nowone can possess a weapon that is more powerful then the millatery as in hand held weapons or anny thing else. a gun that civillans cant own for example an M203, a H&K-79, SAW, RPK, RPG (my dad used to have a smoke greanade LAW but not an explosive fire ing one) and of course id like you to nake a weapon that a civillian can havethat is more powerful then the millatery hand weapons

fourth guns dont kill pepople ammunition dose :P  but searously their are some bullits that will shot you in the head and not kill you. to kill peple you shoof use a millatery round (which is leagle) then their are howallo point bu;llits which acn knock you flat. (but still kill you :P ) btw me grandma used to shoot a automatic gun and she is terrofied of them [(it was my dads MAC 11)which wasent illigle]
 so...

 put that in you pipe and smoke it ewm

but the fact is thay dont work pepal still get guns and shoot ech uther.

thare is no binfafit that a guns give us that out ways what we loos.


(http://www.wagv.org/images/victoria_washington.jpg)

Victoria Washington

Killed by gun July 17, 1999, at age 2


Victoria was born on July 22, 1996 at Cedar Sinai Hospital. She was a very special little girl, very bright and happy. I called her 'Mama' because she would tell my other three children, all boys, what to do. She loved to dress up and model for her dad and I. Victoria was in church every Sunday. She would play the tambourine and sing, "Jesus is on the main line; tell him what you want." She would greet everyone with a hug.
She loved school even though she never started. She rode in the car with me every morning to take her big brother Jerome to school, and she would take her coat off as if she was staying at school. I miss her and love her; no words can express it. She was loved by many and touched a great number of other lives, at the age of two. We love her.

By Vickie Johnson, Mother

whay dont you tell that to Vickie Johnson
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1-15-06

SWAT Team Shoots 'Armed' Fla. 8th-Grader


By KELLI KENNEDY, Associated Press Writer
45 minutes ago
 
on news.yahoo.com

LONGWOOD, Fla. - It was in an instant, with a SWAT team surrounding him, that Christopher David Penley slipped into an alcove in a school bathroom and raised what officers believed was a black 9 mm Beretta handgun, authorities said. Moments later, a deputy shot him.

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Penley, 15, who was on advanced life support Friday night, was holding what turned out to be a pellet gun, authorities said. Earlier, he had pointed the weapon at another student at suburban Orlando's Milwee Middle School, then traversed the campus before ending up in the bathroom confrontation, investigators said.

At a news conference after the shooting, authorities put the weapon side-by-side with a Beretta. It appeared to have black paint covering the red or pink markings on the muzzle that may have indicated to officers that it was a nonlethal weapon.

"As you can see, it doesn't take a professional to see how close this looks to the real thing. I would not be able to tell the difference," said Joyce Dawley, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement special agent in charge of the investigation.

Seminole County Sheriff Don Eslinger said the incident began about 9:38 a.m., when another student saw Penley with the weapon and struggled with him for it. Pointing the gun at the other student's back, Penley directed him to a closet, dimmed the lights and left the classroom, Eslinger said.

The school went into lockdown.

From there, the sheriff said, he "traveled with this firearm throughout the campus" before ending up in a bathroom. By then, more than 40 officers, including SWAT and negotiators, were on scene. He refused to drop the firearm, Eslinger said.

"During this standoff, and during the chase, the student said he was going to kill himself or die," Eslinger said.

Phone calls to Penley's home were not answered, and a person who answered the door declined comment.

Those who know Penley say he was unhappy and being bullied at school. He had run away from home several times, said Kelly Swofford, a neighbor whose 11-year-old son was friends with Penley.

"He said he had something planned," said Jeffery Swofford, 11. "He said `I hope I die today because I don't really like my life.'"

He also said that Penley was in a disagreement with someone, allegedly over a girl. There was going to be a fight Friday, he said. "I heard a rumor that he had a BB gun, but I didn't think he really had one," he added.

Classes were canceled for the rest of the day, buses were called in early and parents who saw live television news coverage hurried to pick up their children. Resource officers were called to consult with faculty, and social workers were on scene to talk with children who remained waiting for a ride.

Sarah Tivy, a 12-year-old seventh grader, said some students were frightened during the incident, but she was calm.

"I just figured that if someone is going to bring a gun to school, then they need to be taken out of school," she said.

Marie Hargis, whose 14-year-old son and 13-year-old daughter go to Milwee, stood in front of the school with a sign that read "Stop the violence."

"My youngest daughter is just very emotionally messed up," she said. "She started crying and said, `Mommy, I don't want to go back.' They should not fear having to go to school."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060114/ap_on_...chool_evacuated (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060114/ap_on_re_us/school_evacuated)

why is is that everytime someone gives good reasons you start throwing those family murders?

i dont see it as a good reson. eny thing that take away the life of some one elss needlisly is not a good reson.

i feel realy asmaed at america for selling thes weponds.

what is a beter respose than showing thare afect thay have on pepal.

(http://www.wagv.org/images/ArthurNegrette.jpg)

Arthur Raymond Negrete, Jr.

Killed by gun October 5, 1998, at age 18


Arthur Negrete, Jr., was 18 years old. He was a victim of a drive-by shooting on October 5th, 1998, at 12 PM, five minutes away from home. He was the oldest sibling of two sisters. He had goals and dreams of becoming a U.S. Marine and had just received his high school diploma. Ever since "Artie" was a young,boy, he knew he was going to be a Marine. He wanted to be proud of his dignity as a man in a uniform to serve his country. And I, as a mother, could have hardly waited to see my son stand proud in a position he set forth to so much believe in.

He was a very mature 18 year old. He wanted a life. He was a gentle brother, proud to be the big brother whom his two younger sisters admired and looked up to and respected. He was our little man. We depended on his strength around our home. His smile; his laughter; the smell from his cologne; his warm, gentle conversation we miss so much. It's indescribable. We keep his spirit alive by always talking about him and sharing our thoughts. I find my sincere therapy by reaching out and helping young men and ladies find positive directions for a peaceful frame of mind and to recognize life does incorporate positive action.

By Liza G. Negrete, Mother

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you only get one life one chase after that no more life is involubale.

we dont need weponds to take away pepal lifes thare is no justifactation for giving weponds to the joral puplic.

i hope all you how have agrued Pro gun one day learn how fragil and presih life real is. i beg you dont buy weponds made to end tham.

you know you are repeating yourself in the reasons why and why did you stop for 3 or 4 pages? but yuou should also be ashemed that so many amercans get killed just by falling and slipping on a banana because that was cause number one. makes you think how smart people are. just like car accidents was higher then death by a gun

I thought we already discussed this!

Even if there were no guns allowed for civilians to own, that does not mean that someone could not buy a gun from somewhere else (ie. another country, black market, etc.) and shoot people.

I think we should be less tolerant with the sentances we hand out. More executions for murders, less life sentences. People need to know that taking someone's life deservers to have their own taken.

People are the problem, they always will. Focus on the people aspect and that might make more progress.

ewm, every time someone starts talking about guns you put up more pictures of dead people. once was enough. and if guns were outlawed in civilian markets, that just means that criminals will have less resistance, because criminals don't care if they break the law, but unarming decent folks is just going to make them cannon fodder.

Hes got a

D
A
M
N

good piont, ewm.  Adress it, and stop dodging it with these pity parties.

guns don't kill people,  WITH GUNS....

I keep going back to it be cuss its the truth.

and puting picher of pepal how have ben killed with guns is the most efective agument i can make.

Take away public access to ammo, and then the only way they'll kill someone with a gun is to hit 'em on the head with it!

bultits are easy to make.

you need to disabule guns compleetly.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

in the news to day:

Lawyer: Teen Shot by Police Brain Dead By KELLI KENNEDY, Associated Press Writer
33 minutes ago
 


LONGWOOD, Fla. - The 15-year-old boy shot by police while brandishing a pellet gun in a middle school bathroom was clinically brain dead Saturday but was being kept alive to harvest his organs, his family's attorney said.

ADVERTISEMENT
 
Christopher Penley was expected to die Saturday night, said family attorney Mark Nation.

"His organs are in the process of being harvested," Nation told reporters outside a hospital.

Earlier, Kelly Swofford, a family spokeswoman and neighbor of the boy's parents Ralph and Donna Penley, said the boy had died and that the family was "devastated."

Penley, of Winter Springs, was accused of pulling the pellet gun in a classroom Friday and pointing it at other students before forcing one into a closet, then leading deputies and SWAT team members on a chase that ended in a school bathroom.

When he raised the gun at a deputy, a SWAT team member shot him, authorities said.

Officers who had responded to the 1,100-student school in suburban Orlando believed the gun was a Beretta 9mm, and didn't learn until after the shooting that it was a pellet gun.

Police had said Friday night that the boy was on "advanced life support." The hospital refused to release any information Saturday.

"Everybody in the whole neighborhood is really upset," Paul Cavallini, who lives across the street from the Penleys, said Saturday. "He was a quiet kid — polite and everything. He was just a normal teenager."

However, friends and investigators say he was also bullied and emotionally distraught, and went to school that day expecting to die.

Patrick Lafferty, a 15-year-old neighbor who has known Penley about six years, said he wasn't surprised by what happened. He said Penley was a loner who "told me he wanted to kill himself dozens of times."

"He would put his headphones on and walk up and down the street and he would work out a lot," preferring to keep to himself, Lafferty said.

Swofford said the boy had run away from home several times. Her 11-year-old son, Jeffery Swofford, said Penley had said he had something planned.

"He said `I hope I die today because I don't really like my life,'" Jeffery Swofford said.

At a news conference following the shooting Friday at suburban Orlando's Milwee Middle School, authorities put the pellet gun side-by-side with a Beretta. It appeared to have black paint covering the red or pink markings on the muzzle that may have indicated to officers that it was a nonlethal weapon.

"As you can see, it doesn't take a professional to see how close this looks to the real thing. I would not be able to tell the difference," said Joyce Dawley, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement special agent in charge of the investigation.

Seminole County Sheriff Don Eslinger said the incident began about 9:38 a.m., when another student saw Penley with the weapon and struggled with him for it. Pointing the gun at the other student's back, Penley directed him to a closet, dimmed the lights and left the classroom, Eslinger said.

The school went into lockdown.

From there, the sheriff said, Penley traversed the school campus before ending up in a bathroom. By then, more than 40 officers, including SWAT and negotiators, were on scene. He refused to drop the firearm, Eslinger said, and was shot after pointing it at a SWAT deputy.

"The student said he was going to kill himself or die," Eslinger said.

Jeffery Swofford said Penley had been in a disagreement with someone, allegedly over a girl. There was going to be a fight Friday, he said. "I heard a rumor that he had a BB gun, but I didn't think he really had one," he added.

At the school Friday, Marie Hargis, whose son and daughter attend Milwee, held a sign that read "Stop the violence."

"My youngest daughter is just very emotionally messed up," she said. "She started crying and said, `Mommy, I don't want to go back.' They should not fear having to go to school."

(LEADS with 4 grafs to correct with boy clinically brain dead but being kept alive to harvest his organs; Will be updated)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060114/ap_on_...chool_evacuated (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060114/ap_on_re_us/school_evacuated)

 

So every time someone gets shot, you're gonna post it here, so you can avoid answering our points direcrly?

i have anser all the quetions asked like 2x now. thares nuthing left to be sed.

ether you respect humin life anuff to pertect it or you do not respect humin life and wont guns to distroy it.

Do YOU respect human rights enough to uphold out right to keep and bear arms?

the rhite ho hold arms is not a humin right. humin right is not to torcher treet pepal farily no mater race religon or ethnishaty, to make sher pepal have food and are safe.

i dont see a gun as a humin right its a privilege that is abused.

thats not a human right, thats an american right. believe it or not but the two are different.

not according to the ACLU... (not that I agree with them on anything, in fact, they are so liberally biased it's absurd)

well thay are rong if thats what thay say. that meens the NRA probly paiyed tham off to incowed that or paiyed off some one in power to add that in.

if you think you that have a gun is a humin right, I sugest you see a shrink or two.


like Cpt Ryan sed is not a humin right its a american right unfochintly.

...not that the ACLU represents my opinion...

(to be read with a sarcastic tone)...

I think the law enforcement officers need to be more careful. I mean, how can they hurt a little, innocent boy with his full life ahead of him? I think the police should get rid of their weapons too so that everyone will be safe. As long as one gun is on the streets they are not safe.

(back to seriousness)...

Of course these things are going to happen. As long as someone looks like they are going to shoot you, you are out of your mind if you have a gun and dont try to protect yourself. Thats like taking a lifejacket in the boat with you and not putting it on; when you really need it, it cant help you.

Bad people will always have guns, period. If the general public cannot be allowed to at least arm themselves semi-decently against the threat of muggers or thieves, then my guess is that crime will skyrocket. It would be a piece of cake to rob someone if you knew they were unarmed. But, if there is a slight chance that the victim might have a revolver under their coat... that makes any criminal cringe. Nobody likes to get shot.

The real reason for having guns I believe is not that you hope to ever have to use them, but rather to strike fear into the hearts of those that seek to harm you. And that is a very legitimate reason.

as someone said in Aliens vs predator: "same principle as a condom." "i'd rather have one and not need it- then need it and not have one."

personally i think the world would be a safer place if every "sane" and non-criminal was armed and highly trained in the use of them. because who in there right mind would try to attack someone else in that situation?

it would be suicidal...

Oh, and ewm:

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1746/compromise7wa.jpg)

well if i am odimacticly rong that duss not show a lot of respect for my vows.

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.  By:Gerry Spence


(http://www.yourthink.com/e2/download/paper/art/think_0012_1024.jpg)

lol was einstein shot too?

i was tring to prove a pont. ovisy i have not.

if his mind was closed by belief the world whood have ben difrent.

Well this sucks, imageshack is down...

Oh, yeah, the topic

I get what it means, I just don't see what is has to do with this topic

the link i was tringto make wich it apeers was very uncleer was when you have your minde stuck on one idea it makes it realy hard to get a nuther thow it.

guns = good. a fores feeld gose up pertected form negitve information.

guns = bad sinser are depolyed picking up new information agnitve and posatibe.

ok, I see

i thought i had it, but now i'm just confused. :wacko:  

re-read it several times.  Eventually, either you'll get it, or your brains will blow out.   :P  

well what about you ewm

president or any american crap/blunder= you agree and try to get you to the your federation.

president is good = shields up, think that the enemy is 10 times worse then the borg and try to try to force the enemy that the federation is the way to go

btw for the normal people: ewm said:

if something is stated on this topic that guns are good. all you people get very protective about it.

if something is stated in the topic that guns are bad, then all you people try to find inforamtion to show that guns are good.

his point he is trying to make is that we are tooo one sided and that we aren't accepting any other comments about it. BUT EWM you are 10 times worse. you are repeating yourself with a mantra and you aren't getting it to your brain that guns aren't bad but the people using it. IT IS THAT CLEAR. all you want to do is make people into sheep by creating some weird contraptions to protect people from themselves. well wake up but people make mistakes and some bad ones. you can't protect that. making mistakes is part of evolution. that is how a society evolves. a baby learns best if it put its hand in the flame and feel that it is hot. not by pushing the baby away from the flame every second. because he will find ways to explore the hot thing. but after he finds out that the flame is bad he won't do it again. it is that simple. IT IS THAT SIMPLY PUT

popinon is not a fact. just becuss alot of pepal agree on some thing duss not meen thay are right [TD]Roach.

well what kind of parint would you be if you let you baby put his hand in fier?

ummm...  my parints did not let me put mu hands in fier and i terned out ok...

i repect my self be cuss the same anser apliy to ment difrant staments.


but serisly [TD]Roach if what you are saying that if we let guns be ligal for a wile pepal will come arwond and reject tham later....

well we have had guns sins the berther of the united state of america and things are getting wers not better.

I believe that you just said that democracy is a flawed form of goverment.

thats not what i ment.

but it is true democracy has flaws like all forms of gomerment.

it was an example EWM try to understand that. you still don't have have your parents now around you telling you what is right and wrong. that is the point i am making. ASk YOURSELF THAT QUESTION WHY THEY AREN'T DOING THAT? you can't have that in a government where you have police patrolling the streets checking if every person has the safety lock on the gun. that is insane. history shows that a society learns from mistakes. see nuke bomb or WW2 or the whole enslavement of africa.  People need to learn how to be responsible.

and this is not an oppion:

the earth is round. (and alot of people agree with me) also a fact is

gun aren't bad but the people using it are.

because guns are tools. A gun can't have a concept of right or wrong or can do anything themselves to make things right or wrong. people using a gun makes things justifiable or not. same with car crashes. you don't start saying the car is bad. no the person who drove into the other person is bad. DOESN'T that make any sence to you? that is why there are those drving schools for people who lost their licence for something like that.

THAT is what i am saying. And some things can have a better effect if it is legal. then atleast people know it is not right. see drug laws here. not alot of dutch people here are drug users and there isn't even a rise after that law. but then again i am not stating that we should legalise guns so that you can buy one in a toy store. SO READ CAREFULL what i am saying. it is true that the laws in the US is very strick on having guns and they are good. just like those for alchohol.

but you CAN'T forsee in the future what a person is going to do. Why aren't you complaing that the drinking alcohol should be raised  to 30 year old instead of 21 then? I don't hear you complaing about that even if alot of people die around that age of drunken related accidents.  

I tell you WHY, because they are adults. Can you imagine the court case? an adult saying to the judge well, my mother or the company selling alcohol didn't state that i could get drunk when i had a little of this. That is only an american phenomenom where people sue a company because it wasn't stated on the spoon that if you put it in a magnetron that it explodes or why they don't place warnings on lightbulbs not to eat them because of serious wounds in the mouth. IT IS COMMON SENCE and THEIR OWN RESPONSIBILITY IF THEY DO SO.

So what people do when they are an ADULT is their own responsibility. that is how things work. that is how a person learns and how people can change over time to make the right choices.

NOW, does that sound totally WEIRD to you? or should we all become mamma's boys and holding her hand 24/7.

OK so now you are possibly thinking. but they did something bad how do we correct that. may I introduce THE JUSTICE SYSTEM. a court is there for to give punishments to people when they did something wrong.... Kinda  like what a mother and father does when you where a kid. now if you break some of those rules. those judges put you in the cell where you can think of what you have done or be rehabilitated or what ever is nessacary to be done to keep you on the right track. Same as being sent to your room.

well the govemts job is to set limets and to balints pros and cones than to pass a jugment.

thare is no reson why the jonral population whould need a gun uther than hunting.

guns are a wepond that hearts pepal. and roach it is the govements job to tell you what to do that is the hole perpuse of haveing a govemt to pertect its population and thay cant do that well with weponds of war on the streets.

we should not have guns on the street for the same reson we dont let pepal have uranium privitly.

a tarist can do as much damge with a gun shouting spree as a bomb.

roach

thats not how things work in the real warld roach. i take it you are asooming evry one is good at hart... thats very sweet to think that but thats not how things are.

ARGH! MAN, YOU REALLY NEED GLASSES.

Do you know what responsability means?

The dictionary:

1. The state, quality, or fact of being responsible.
2. Something for which one is responsible; a duty, obligation, or burden

a person is responsable of his or hers own action. wheather it is good or bad. that is responsability. so if you are the only person who saved the world from a meteor. you are responsible for that. if you destroyed the world you are also responsible for that.

haven't you even heard that at your job? You are responsible for your own actions within the company? SHOULD ring a bell. Same rules apply in a society.

And the goverment made already laws for guns. i think killing someone with a gun is an offence and is stated in the law. and a government isn't there telling you what to do because that is communism. a govemerment is there is develop a country to better itself economically, socially and other things.

I would get freaking insane if i where ordered around what to do 24/7.   Imagine the government telling you what might go wrong with every action that you  or I make. You will be hearing.. don't forget, wash your hands  everytime you use the toilet or you might get sick. or everytime you cross over you hear from soneone tell you: "don't forget, use the zebra and no jay walking always look from left to right. "

that is the kind of things you want to impose on guns. that is impossible. give a bit of respect to the people of your own country.

Why do you think there are things like drugdealers. do you think they blame the government that they turned out that way? NO, they knew what drugs did to them they where informed about it at school. But they where curious tried it and ruined their life. Murderers, knew from  an early age that killing was bad. but they made that choice. Homeless people didn't want to finnish their school. WHY? because most of them found it boring  or other lame excuse.  BUT they all MADE A CHOICE AND WHERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTION. The outcome.. one is a drug addict, other is homeless and the other in JAIL.

if you still don't understand then you really need to learn english again or try to looking it up and translate it in your own native language.

I am certainly I am not living in some hippy crap world because NO GOVERNMENT OR ANY OTHER PERSON can protect people from his own decisions (and from that decicion comes RESPONSABILITY) even if it is for the worst or best. Unless you are the first person that always did  what you've been told to do, never said no to a single person and never made a choice without consulting someone.

Because if you made a bad choice like blowing someone house up. You will get accounted for that. people aren't that good in nature that  they will say i forgive you.