Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations

A new category on the Fleet Operations board has opened - the Developers Diary. In it, the staff will post about what is currently going on in Fleet Operations development and you can comment it, add your ideas, post your opinions - just whatever you think.

Remember, this category is brand new, so it is quite empty currently. Just stay tuned, more content coming soon.

Developers Diary (http://forum.fleetops.net/index.php?showforum=29)

OH!!!! very nice idea, hope to see it filled, i take it members can not post new topics in there (i sure hope they can't)

Neato!

Awesome Idea!  B)  

Great idea! :)

you are truly gods among mortals.

Great idea :thumbsup:

very nice idea B)  

:thumbsup:

Developers Diary good idea hope to see more development soon

I only have to say that I'm waiting patiently for the release of v3.  I can't wait any longer (sick of playing other mods that go so slowwwwwwwww :o ), but I do wish the FO team best wishes, and I understand that they have a lot of work to make this mod.  That's all I have to say.

in an attempt to keep this thread form selfdestructing i am going to ask this question, so bare with me.

Can we get an ETA on the release of V3?

Do you want the real or the diplomatic answer? i guess the diplomatic one:
nope :P

I guess because we never get one? but i don't know.

we don't need one now that the "progress status" has been put up on the forums

read that an you'll have an idea of how far left there is to go, providing none of those pesky bugs rears its ugly head. ;)

cleaned out some offtopic chit-chat

*Praise the lord!*

Anyways, I know this is a stupid question, but, any progress yet?

:lol: Progress?

i'm waiting now nearly one year an have stopped this question cause its useless.....

"Be patient" "Its done when ist done"

progress (http://forum.fleetops.net/index.php?showtopic=2124) :P

I was hoping for somthing a bit more... enlightening... than that...

the progress meter tells me diddly-squat cos i never remember what the numbers were last time i looked lol

Please, would it kill you guys to give us a few specifics?  If for some reason the Klingon AI is uber-retarded, at least tell us, that way we'll know that this great mod hasn't been released yet for a reason!

but they are telling you (in a subtle way) when there is a number other than zero next to either the red or yellow boxes, there is something urgent that needs doing before the mod can be released. just be patient before you become a patient lol j/k

Ha...!  That's funny...  :lol:  

Heh, I sasy just give them some time, I would love to be in their posistion with the game I am developing :) . I say just give them time and let them do it right rather than rushing them, I would rather wait a while as opposed to doing something foolish like relasing a glitchy game :P

I'm not rushing them, I just wanna know exactly why it's taken so long.

because unlike I am betting atleast 90% of us here (including myself) they have a life and this job like thing  :lol:  

...Wierdos.  :hmmm: j/k

Now, back to topic.

i think the feds are looking good so far. can't wait to try out the new avatars.

I wanna see how the Avalon-class carrier works!

same here.

Out of curiosity, what kind of fighters will it deploy?

i think it will deploy its fighters in much the same way as the cardassians Drones weapon, they will probably be too small to see.

or do you mean what fighters? i suppose hornets, but who knows.

---- :ph34r: edit

by hornets i mean the non-cannon fighters, not the non-cannon ship class. what was that fed fighter the "Penguin" or something like that. (my copy of dominion wars stopped working when i got this new pc)

I figured it would either be the Perigrine or the Valkyrie (http://www.bravofleet.com/avalon/fighter-valkyrie.htm).  And on a side note, if it is like the Drones, I would classifiy that as a reeeeal letdown...  :(

:huh: why? giving the feds standalone fighters just wouldn't be fleet ops

Correction, it wouldn't be fleet ops as we know it, and niether will beta 3!!!  
(1)  I don't really think that you can say something like that without trying it first, otherwise there is no way to know whether it is fleetops material or not.
(2)  It would be a change.  So will everything else in beta 3.  CHANGE IS INEVITABLE.  
(3)  "...just wouldn't be fleet ops"... As I stated before, there is no way in heck to know whether it is fleet ops or not until you try it.  If it is implemented, and it doesn't work like fleet ops should than fine, it's not fleet ops material.  But until then, saying things like that is Ill-advised at best, and just plain stupid at worst.

right so what your saying is we should put all this "fan made crap" (quoted from PD, excellent words as well ;) ) in, 'cos you never know untill you try it right. Come on you really dont need a Phd to work out if something is gonna fit in with the style of play that is going to be in Fleet ops (so long as you've played it). Yeah there are going to be Avatars which will undoubtably effect how you go about destroying your opponants base, but having fighters will just add far too much micro management to this fleet based mod. you may as well use the scouts in their place, at least they have the added sensor range ( & in the case of the rommies can be refit to detect cloaked ships). use common sense man :blink:

so i stand by my "it just wouldn't be fleet ops"

Whoa whoa whoa, do you really think I'm stupid enough to propose fighters that work like starships??? :blink:
Hypotheticly, the fighters would work on AI alone and stay in escort positions around the Carrier that deployed them.

Plus, you assert that I acctualy supported the inclusion of "fan made crap"!  This, IMO, is an incredibly foolish assertion to make, unless you regularly substitute the phrases "change" and "fan made crap" with each other!

Scouts may have excellant sensor range, but there firepower could be described as woefully inadiquate at best!  Unless you open an editing tool like ArMod and give your ventures a couple more phasers and mabye some quantum torpedos, you arn't gonna get much from them!
 

think of a way to do that then i'm all for it :hmmm:

while others, including myself have voiced our distaste for the "fan made crap" that has been offered, you on the other hand spend your time arguing in favour of such  examples  :mellow:

er... yeah.. that would be their use & limitations you have just stated :rolleyes:  . of course you would use them in a limited role, (thats why they are called scouts).  you could use them as bait while, you pull your more expensive ships out of a combat zone if you need to retreat. or you could use them as scouts (see how that works), to look ahead of your main fleets, while you plan where to make your attacks.

Im with Ryan on this one. Eventhough I do like your idea about the fighters redshirt I do not think it is feasable with the A2 limitations :-S

i wonder what kind of range these fighters will have?

You're not stupid, and niether am I.  If you realy wanted it, you would talk to DOCa or Optec, not complain about it here.


Just because I argue in favour doesn't mean I really am.  You and everyone else always point out the negatives, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there are two sides to EVERY issue, and, quite frankly, someone has to point out the aspects you guys are overlooking.


*sighs*  You were saying how scouts could be used in place of fighters.  I addressed that, and you came back with this.   Fighters would, as a requirement, be more heavily armed, and would be used in a much lager role... like acctualy attacking the enemy!

Please try to keep your responses relevant.

firstly, i'm not stupid, 2nd i'm not complaining about it. like i said if you know how to do it then share that info with us, and then i'll be more than happy to give it my support, until then there really is little point in wishing for something noone can do, is there :mellow:

so you post something leading everyone to believe you are in favour of something only to really be against it????  :rolleyes:

you want a small heavily armed ship use a destroyer.

here you go fill in space: (feds for eg)

scout = 1*pulse phaser
fighter = ????
destroyer = phaser (long range)


if you start putting fighters in there will most certainly be serious balance issues. just how strong do you make em?

*sigh*  I hate it when threads degrade to this...  Oh well, here I go...


Mabye "complaining" was the wrong word to use.


You managed to completely miss the point of the whole paragraph.  Why am I not suprised...  As I said earlier, I was simply representing the other side of the issue, whether I agree with it, or not.


Does that help?  btw, about 20 hull and 20 shields

Redshert haw much will thes fiter cost to bild?

if you don't agree with it its a waste of time posting on its behalf :rolleyes:  in case you missed it, that was the point in my paragraph.

WTF are quantum pulse phasers -_-  

If I remember right, they are one of the new weapons.  I'm thinking the Phalanx will have them.  btw, the fighter versions will be MUCH less powerful.

To ewm:  20 dilithium, 35 tritanium (speculative numbers)

DOCA/Optec will u please do something to stop this bickering?! :lol: :lol: are these fighters gonna be manned or drones? i'm just wondering if they won't be very effective and easily overcome by the enemy or if they are effective by using swarm tactics i.e loads of fighters targeting 1 particular ship

I think the phalanx has the mangan phaser. :P

About the fighters, I dont think u will have to buy or construct them :S

thats right, they come with an avatar and are deployed from the avalon??  

That's what I've heard.

Yep, fighters will be launched and will fight automatically, you will only have to command the fightercarrier.

will there be different combat modes for fighters? like C.A.P. with phasers only but they don't have to reload and they have faster reaction times, or strike where they're armed with tordedos but have to return to the ship to rearm and then launch again? or something like that?

Hey Optec, DOCa Cola

I was wondering if you could possibly post an image of the avalon

Hmmmm...  The fighters will be seperate units?

I presume they will work somewhat like the ship-launched fighter from C&C Red Alert 2, if anyone remembers. At least that's how I understood the description.

Although, they also could work like an animated weapon... but that would mean noone could shoot the fighters down. And that would be strange.

i think c&cra2 allied aircract carrier style would be best.

sounds good to me.

Yep, they act similar to Red Alert. There is a 3d Image of the Avalon in a past news entry.

I've been working on something like this before. Best way i figured out was using Drones, but set it to automatically fire. So whenever an enemy gets near the carrier, the fighters launch. Plus all drones come back after a bit anyway, but if you set the fire rate right, they'd come back, and then a second later launch....

So how will these fighters attack emenies? Will they surround the target or just do an all out attack?

They might just use sticks and harsh language.  :P  

Starfleet-issued sticks? probably comes with 5 blinking lights and is 2x the size/mass it should be, nah sticks are too inefficient :D

they would surrond there target and fire at it like the cardy drones weapon does in A2 only using a different sod and weapon sprite for the fighters.

they launch, fly their attack cycle and return to the hangar docks. Very similar to the Starcraft Protoss Carrier  B)  

Awesome!  (I love the Protoss!)

Humm... similar to the protoss carrier eh? just .. how similar? i remember the ai in starcraft being really buggy when facing carriers, any non-human player would fire at the drones and rarely kill them, while the carriers themselves remained undamaged. something to think about when doing this

yeah, optec what happens to the fighters if the carrier gets destroyed?

I assume the fighters won't buzz around as fast as the Protoss ones will, and will therefore be easier to hit.

The fighters wont be selectable or attackable. If the Carrier is destroyed they will try to return to another nearby carrier. If this also fails for some reason they will explode :) The poor pilots get crazy alone in the dark  B)  

hi, Optec
can you give more img or pic?? from :
the Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations V3

:shifty: I feel sorry for the polits

Do you have a screenshot of the fighters in action?  And also, is the Avalon armed, or does it rely entirely on the fighters for defence?

the ship itself had no weapons. someone stated it somewhere on the forum

Someone?  That's not telling me much... If it were DOCa or Optec, I'd at least know whether to take it seriously or not...

if i do recall you saying that thare will be an updated avatars? :D your the gratist!

you mean they will do different things now? :omg:  

thats what i understood.

sorry

Wait wait wait...If this ship is unarmed what is going to be the range of these fighters? because if I have no offensive weaponry I don't wanna be near the battle...

The Avalon Class is equipped with a Phaser. Booth the Phaser and the Fighters are long-range.

A Sabre style phaser? (4 dmg.)

i think it seems more like a "wartime" avatar, so my guess is that the carrier itself is going to have a bit of firepower, something like 6dmg with a 2.5sec recharge rate (or something like that). or the Excelsior II's phaser banks even, but that would be totally (insert word here). :D  

Too bad the Klingons and Romulans don't have fighters...

no don't go there please! :lol:

how many fighters are there per carrier in the others games ppl have mentioned?  

Hmm...I don't know any other games but I can give an example from Battlestar? lol They have about 47 vipers (off the top of my head) but only about half are in operation due to lack of pilots. Galactica is about 1325.7 meters long (rough estimate by division of about 3.5 feet in a meter) 520 meters wide (agian, rough estimate) 165.7 meters high (agian, rough estimate). Considering the size of the ship, it has massive rail guns to defend it from the huge Cylon onslaught, even with the amazing skill of Galactica's fighter pilots it still needed a heavy defense...Sorry if this was all useless information, just giving an example for a Carrier size vs amount of fighters vs firepower sorta thing...

well with the drones weapon (which is I think how FO is making there fighters unless there was more fiddling with the engine by them) a group of fighters will appear from the ship and attack the target. They will likely be in groups of 4-8 and will have a rate of fire that is set at the moment one squad comes back another squad appears.

in the C&CRA2 each one has 3

as i think about starfleet command volII it seems that carriers should have about 4 to 8 squadrons of 4 fighters (depending on the carriers size), but things change the current generation of carriers in FO might be bigger or (more likely) smaller.  

i remember battlestar galactica lol they don't make em like they used to. i'd like the carrier to have more defensives than a phaser as it will become a target for ambushes ;) i wanna know if its gonna be slow at turning and speed since warp isn't in FO, i tried a conversion for armada2 once but the fighter carrier moved like a planet!! :lol:  

i think it should have the speed of an akira or better (that's once of the roles the akira was used in during the dominion war)

thats really more of an assumption, than actual fact since you don't actually see any fighters leaving any of the akiras in a fleet. compared with the other ship classes, the Akira barely got any lone screen time (surprising since it was a newish ship you'd think they would want to showcase it a little more).

as for the carriers speed, i dont see any reason why it shouldn't have the same sort of speed that a similar sized ship has, (whatever that may be, Akira nebula or whatever).

Protoss carriers usually carry 4 each, but can be (and almost always are) upgraded to where they can carry 8 fighters.

what is a "protoss" what show is this from? assuming it's from a show/movie...I've gathered that it's a Carrier vessel, a large carrier vessel, but from what? any pictures?

the protoss are an alien race in Starcraft. love that game. sorry i don't have screenshot, nor do i know where to get some.

Ah, ok, I've tried starcraft but it's too simulationy for me, you can run out of fuel...i'd rather not drift through space for the rest of my life lol...Seemed like it'd be fun, but my computer's graphics card apparently isn't compatable because in the demo's i've played the game looks horrific.

are we talking about the same game! starcraft is a space based strategy game (like warcraft in the future). don't think your ships/troops can run out of fuel.

And is REALLY REALLY OLD, so whatever your graphic card it should be strong enough :s

oh he is talking about homeworld 1 lol

Uhm, i was talking about starcraft, i never saw a "space stratagy" in it, the demos i've played were piloting a starship and flying inbetween this space station (which might have been this carrier you were talking about)and killing randomly appearing bad guys, also using some form of faster than light jumps to other sectors...I'll try and find the demo I played but what ever version of starcraft i played was totally space sim.

The Homeworld series is very much like armada, except everything is mobile, and fighter/capital ship combat based. You don't see through the glass in the cockpit, it's topdown (in general, there are a few diffrent view modes) like A2, you can pan around ships ect. Space Stratagy, It's what Star Trek Armada was made after (Since it came first) except it's better, better story, and in my opinion better gameplay. Homeworld you can run out of fuel, yes, but you are not stranded like I was when I played my demo of starcraft. In homeworld one, when your fighters run out of fuel they just slow down drastically, I usually just FTL(sorry, battlestar term, Faster Than Light, aka Hyperspace or "warp")a carrier in to pick them up and head back. It's not some major problem in homeworld, however, in the demo I played, I CRASHED INTO A FRACKING PLANET! :lol: no fuel, so I wasn't able to act an opposite force on the already powerful inertia from whatever that afterburner thing does, just seems to speed me up to the point of fiery death...

I know I didn't play the original Starcraft, i'm not sure if it was a sequal with diffrent game play or what...but it was like a space fighter simulator. If this game is as old as you say though...it must just be plain ugly, because the ships looked like they had a black coloured hull and some kind of light yellow grid and the planet was like green....the only thing that looked remotely attractive was the star fields, the nebula(which you die when you enter, what is that about?) and the asteriods. I don't know if thats my graphics card or if the game is just plain ugly...

Yeah a FPS starcraft will be out soon or is already out so you maybe played that. But yeah we were talking about the old Starcraft :)

you mean the new Starcraft FPS where your one of the covert dudes? what are they called; ghosts or something like that?

I think its ghost yes. I think its stupid they didnt just continue with the RTS style :S

Its funny 'cause, even though it's ten years old now, Starcraft is better than A2 any day.

i do love starcraft, don't know why. i still play it every once in a while.

i don't have the add on unfortunately so it looks pritty ugly if i play it

i got battlechest a few years ago, or rather a decade ago.

I don't know if it was new or not, I'm still trying to find the demo I played...It had some weird name Starcraft something...I don't know, all I know is it wasn't an RTS! Is there a demo of the original starcraft floating around the net somewhere? sounds interesting (and i've found that a lot of older games are much better then the new dribble they are pumping out now ;))...I'll google it.

1  critical tasks remaining required asap for further development
  13  urgent tasks remaining required next release
  36  tasks remaining for yet another future version
  20  low priority tasks remaining before final release of last version
  24  ideas to check for future releases

 wa hoo its all most here  

best new i've heard in a while.

heh, saves me checking it. good news indeed :)  

wewt...

http://www.blizzard.com/starcraft/ (http://www.blizzard.com/starcraft/)

It's an RTS.

 

Yes, I looked at blizzards site, it's not that...I have no idea where I got this game...perhaps I have the names confused? I'm pretty sure it's Starcraft though, like 97%...Weird...

i thought conquest: frontier wars was a pretty good space rts as well  :P  

same here.

i just wish there wasn't a max command point limit

You are Off Topic...

I think there is one problem with the progress counter. It says one urgent task. That could mean an entire race or one ship's odf.

It isn't that clear really.

:lol:
This isn't Gaming Forums Jan, I'm sure we wont be repremanded by the mods for being off-topic...

If they told us the exact project they are working on at the moment it'd be annoying for them, I'm sure urgent stuff isn't an ODF, those don't take long at all...

hey jan, this is what happens to news threads when there isn't any ATM. when there is new info, i'm sure well all talk the crap out of it.

Indeed...So how 'bout those red sox? :lol:

Wow, I'm the only person I know that wears all black (no, I'm not goth, don't go there, Gothic is an architectural style, not a personality, I'm a happy person.) and talks about sports...

i like black and gray myself. no i'm not goth either

i wear black all the time and im extremely happy i go out to bars get drunk and have lots of female friends so i aint goth

but i do play guitar lol

w00t :)

:lol: Bars, drunk, happiness, fits perfectly with my life ;) :D

i like pinks and bright grean and wear tweed jackets with a full leather hat :) :) :) :lol:  :lol:  

...isn't that illegal in Europe? :lol:

that should be illegal everywhere.  :lol:  

Indeed...At least in America, we have those good ol' Bloods and Crips to "bust a cap in yo ***" for such things...:lol:

Imagine if I went out in my dark jedi outfit every day? I'd be robbed and murdered, I'd rob and murder myself...if that were physically possible :lol: I only go like that on casual friday...:D

i'd like to wear my black suede trenchcoat more often, but i'd get arrested for terrorism or something like that. Oh, and I live in arizona. lol

but with my black silk shirt, black pants and black boots, I’d look close enough to a sithlord with the trenchcoat.

lol! I have boots, I hate them they are horrible, kill my feet, I prefer to keep my DCs but I'd look a little stupid, sithlord outfit, darth vader saber replica...black skate shoes...lol

we're just missunder stood :blush:  yea rite ur got us dwn to a T (some sort of sarcasum)

btw the last cupple of days i haven't been able to get the projects status to come up it take for ever for the screen to load, 5 or more minites and then thers nothing but errers on the page.

ColdDark, welcome to the forums :)

Watch the double posting, you might just want to edit your post if you want to add on an extra message :)...I sound like a GF mod...holy frack...

Yes, i've not been able to load it either...I'm not sure what to think :P

hey there! and welcome.  :D  

yep a big welcome from me too,  er... kobol, he jioned before you so shouldn't he/she be welcoming you? :shifty:  lol j/k

anyway about the progress page, its supposed to be linked with another server or something. my guess is there is a small problem with that, seeing how the rest of the forums are working well enough. these things happen so just try to be patient, im sure it will be up and running properly again soon :)  

thanks :_)

this is proberbly the most friendly form iv ever been on! be proud! proberbly because theirs no chav's. (People with burbiery caps, track sutes and all round low life thungs. they look good with a newrock Logo stamped on to their faces tho! lol. the greaf i get, from them, i think the Black lipstick, eyeliner and nails scare them a bit and there so stupid that they only know how to respond in violence! well theres my little rant.

ps the projects status still isn't up and junning but im sure it will be soon. paitants is a vertue! (i can't spel)

Captain ryan...:lol:...I was here before you, I am more then one being, a god no less, so I was here before all y'all :lol: jk ;)

ColdDark, well thanks, I'm just a friendly person, but then again so are 90% of the people on this forum! The way you dress is no way to judge someone, they should be ashamed, I dress in all black aswell, granted make-up isn't my thing, but I wear all black most of the time, I get most of my cloths from hot topic, pac-sun, and Jinx. People will judge you by age from your dress *coughs at some people, they know who they are (lol jk ;))* Human beings by nature fear the unknown, if they react violently it's obviously out of fear. You have nothing to worry about, I'm sure no one will react adversely to your style of dress.

The project status isn't working for me aswell, it's probably being fixed as we speak however. However we're hearing soon! :) patience my padawan ;) :lol:

hey, I want a padawan too. jedi get to have all the fun.  :lol:  

Nah you don't they whine, and complain, and then the council blames you if one of them happens to just, SLIGHTLY, fall to the darkside to become a sith lord :( :P

then you go off to find out how they fell, and fall yourself, then years later you ambush the council all and slay every last one.  ;)  

but u get a death star so...thats a plus :D

Of course, that's why I'm an open supporter of the Galactic Empire :) The rebels are terrorists and the darkside is stronger, End of File.

The Jedi follow their foolish "Code" far to rigorously. The disconnection from emotion and feeling makes them weak, I mean look at Yoda, and Obi-Wan, Obi-wan became fillet migon, and Yoda finally kicked the bucket of old age, while the darkside can keep you alive forever...

The Death Star II is the ultimate display of power, the Empire controlled countless systems by a simple and very effective method: Fear.

Great, now I sound like a sadistic cultist...Next I'm going to be making wax dolls and burning pentagrams into my hands :rolleyes:

If you could use the Force, and harness any power in the universe, would you be lightside or darkside, and what would your main power be? (consider this, it could be anything, remember Duct tape is like the Force, it has a lightside, and a darkside, and it holds the universe together :lol:).

I'd openly be darkside, sith lord, two lightsabers, one red, and one purple. I'd use the red one mainly, but i'd keep the other concealed just in case I need to cheat a little. If I could use any power in the Force...I'd want the insanely evil ability to force people to start singing "Mr. Sandman" with my single thought...muhahahahaha! *pictures his chorus of Stormtroopers..."Mr. Sandman, send me a dream, make him the cutest that I've ever seen..." :lol:* No, seriously, I'd want Force Kill, sure it's not original, but being able to just kill a room full of people when you walk through, just have them all drop like flys, would be the coolist thing since sliced bread! :badgrin:

I'd be darkside, but i wouldn't be evil (i'm a nice guy really) so I’d like still go around helping people but I’d get ****** at someone and slaughter a bunch of people, i'd be a double-hilt bad a$$, and it would be silver. my force power would be “Force Cipher”. that's where you draw the force from all nearby enemies and it makes you stronger, faster, and just better in every respect, and weakens your opponents to the same degree.

the darkside can keep you alive forever... just as a quick recount, how many dark jedi or sith survived? oh right they all died from their own arrogance and stupidity :)

they always kill themselves... anyway...for mr  imperator i would recommend a skin peeling...antiseptic creme would do its job aswell... ;)

erm..you are off topic...

uh huh..."darkside stupid" just to recount, uhm, who destroyed a governmental body that was ruling the galaxy, slowly by politcal maneuvers and eventually a take over of the Republic's armys? oh that's right...a SITH LORD. The sith in general are hardly stupid, and i'm not talking about the little sith kiddies who are too obsessed with their own power...Luke would have been toast if vader didn't betray Palpatine, the Sith are obviously more powerful.

Let me explain something hun, arrogance and stupidity are two entirely diffrent things, and hardly associated with each other...I want you to find me one stupid arrogant person, I'm arrogant at times, and hardly stupid (ooh, double refrence to arrogance! :lol: ). Don't judge someones arrogance as general stupidity, The sith lords aren't as caught up in themselves as the initiates.

I don't like it when people don't look at both sides of things, the sith, arrogant? have you ever seen anything on Jedi? They are a joke, so caught up in their own superiority that they were wiped from the face of the galaxy, Nothing is as simple as "good and evil" they are two opposing religions, each believes the other is wrong. The Sith in general aren't evil, the Sith believe battle, conflict and complete connection with ones feelings and emotions brings Force enlightenment. The Jedi believe these things are evil, I believe that connection with ones feelings; true feelings, hatred, greed, L*st(censor :P), anger, are the only way to truely understand yourself. I'm hardly an evil person however I firmly support one of the fundimental beliefs of the Sith.

Many things about life, beliefs even more so, are just perception. Right and wrong are judged by people in power. Imagine a world without the law against murder, without christianity (which was the first "law")to tell you that you'll go to "heck"(censor :P) if you kill someone. We wouldn't think anything of killing someone, because no one dubbed murder "evil". Do you see what I mean? So many things in life, are just how you look at them :)

i suppose so. but then i'm no philosopher.  

;) Casper, neither am I, I just have my philosophical moments...It's true though, they are opposing religious beliefs, none sporting any real evidence to which is correct...It's just what YOU think is right, and what YOUthink is good or evil :)

Jan, why do people keep saying that? There is no news on the dev. side, what are we supposed to talk about?! It's not like they really care that much to start deleting our post, when there is news we'll start talking about it...*sigh* :rolleyes:

and the sith wear stylish stuff too.

do you follow Sith as a religion my lord? the sith are neither stupid or arrogant they just believe they can control everything and that ultimately leads to their downfall :lol: i've never been a die hard star wars fan but have seen all the films and the last 1 - revenge of the sith - was awesome! paramount should take a leaf out of lucas book regarding space battles! it was well played out and i loved it when the camera was panning over the hull of the ships and stuff. there just seems no sense of depth in star trek space battles. allow me to demonstrate rather feably.

edit - demonstration was crap so i got rid lol

battles in star trek seem like they are in a striaght like facing each other directly innit lol i dunno where all that came from. my train of thought is chaos. and chaos rules mwahahahaha

the sith are always beating the crap out of each other for no reason, because without a strong enemy they betray each other till there's nothing left.

Hun...html...you killed my poor little horizontal scrolly bar :P :lol:

No I don't, but their greed for power does cause sith lords to turn on each other, however that's how the Sith operate. One of the fundemental teachings of the Sith are "As soon as you feel you are strong enough to kill me young one, do, and when you do, you will make a powerful leader." The Sith of higher rank always need to watch their backs, their padawans are always trying to kill them...Doesn't the Klingon ranks structure work the same way?

Yes, battles in the starwars universe are very indepth and beautifully executed, huge battlefields filled with ships, not simple fleets of ships pointing directly at each other. Star wars ships are much like real navy ships, the most powerful cannons are on the sides, and as such, you don't see Imperial Star Destroyers facing their enemies, they are always turned to the side. The Confederacy of Independant Systems made pre-imperial dreanaught ships, you saw one in the third movie, which was the best of the prequels :), General grevious' ship, they attack enemies sideward which, if you ever played the episode three game, is because they have large capital assault cannons on the sides of the ship, designed so they pull along side and tear it to bits, like cannons on navy ships in that respect.

you can't help but gawp in awe at george lucas vision in those prequels, i know i cant. its decided - i'm gonna make a space film using models of navy ships! :lol:

Awe of the third one, the other two were a joke..."Midi chloralines" please...Like the Force is a bunch of germs...you know the British used to believe the same thing, washing would remove some kind of holy protective membrane...I can't remember what they called it, but it's about as stupid as that to impose the fact that the Force is not spiritual, but biological, however it would explain how the Force is transmitted through genetics, such as Luke being as strong in the Force as his father.

princess leia wasn't! and she's luke's sister right? and yeah i agree the first 2 episodes where just...gay...but the 3rd was definately the best. lucas pulled his finger out of his arse for that 1

Princess Leia was, however she had not been tuned to the Force so to speak, it takes training to realize your connection to the Force, Luke wasn't until Obi-Wan trained him, and yes, Leia is Lukes sister, born of Padmé and seperated from his sister for his and her own safety, keeping her hidden from  Darth Vader, or so Obi-wan had hoped. "Gay" :hmmm: offensive...They were bad movies however, and Lucas did do a good job on episode III, however I still don't think it was better than the originals.

I know that the powers structure works that way in mirror universe terrin empire.


Give them a Broadside
(http://poorwilliam.net/pix/uss-missouri-broadside.jpg)

lol gay means something diffent to me. it meant happy in the old days it means homosexual now, i mean it in a differnt way, u find it offensive, tough, i don't mean it in an offensive way.

question - in the star wars universe can anybody be tuned in to the force? even if they have no history of jedi/sith in their family?  

Nice picture SHO260 :lol: Exactly like that ;)

Frodo, yes, anyone can be attuned to the Force because the Force flows through everyone, however being strong enough in the Force to manipulate in the ways the Sith Lords and Jedi Masters do is rare, anyone can be taught to see, and feel through the Force however.

EDIT: Apparently my sexuality is a total topic killer...I deleted it so that the conversation could continue :unsure:  

No, theres several species that can't be attuned to the force, in fact theres some species that get negatively affected by it, take the Gotals for example.

i thought they were trained to resist the force, and that training made them blind to it. or something like that.

Wait sorry, got caught up in Last Command. I think its Gammoreans, not Gotals. Something with a G. I should read that book again.

Thats right if you believe that there is no force or god. But at first I want to refer that StarWars is a movie out of a human´s fantasy and the belief in the Force is an elemental part of this story. Never forget: You are living now...before the movie, 200 years ago there was NO Force...and suddenly there should be one....how many billion years the force has not existed? Thats the power of people´s conceit caused by a movie.

I´m a christian, and use another explanation of what you believe in. Your image of christianity is a bit "wrong" and influenced by prejudices and maybe things that you heard about. I bet you never lived like a real christian or felt the way we do. I definetely not running around ( or not) and pray humbly to my downpushing god and all that untrue crap which is meant by so many to be a real accrued ( If you talk about such things you mean the church...even the chruch was created by humans, not by god! )

Definition Good or Evil:

I want to be understanding for you when I say that if there is a god who is creator of all you can see, feel (for that example in an emotional way), smell etc.  Space and time , matter,  the evil and the good, the way we think about things like good or evil and all what´s in our head now; then god defines about what is evil and what is good. God did it before creating a world we see and know.
I´m sure many think "...ha! what a god...all christians say they were free, they were the good one and the murderer was the evil one!"

Your definition about freedom is superficial if you think freedom would only be the ability to choose the fact that "evil" is "good" and "good" is "evil". Think reversed, why do i not have the freedom to choose my own god...for example me as my own god?
Christianity has never been a law, what you mean is the church who made this laws, not the religion or god. Your freedom is in that superficial way to decide if you want to follow the law or not. 2 options. Not more not less. BUT what is good for you and your soul is not in your hand.  Where do you feel lucky and happy...where is your home?

Don´t forget you are part of a creation and own your specific place in the entire world. In that way you are NOT free.
A fish feels free in water in the ocean or a lake but his space is limited he would die outside the water, he would feel bad and die after a while. That is what is defined as freedom by god. Its more than a simple decision.  You have a conscience and never can explain it why, but it´s there. The knowledge about good and evil is there and noone can explain it why.
And before i start to think in english I better stop here... this theme is to huge to talk about on this forum you will be confronted in your real life with that...don´t worry ;)
It needs time and age :P

I see...this is going to be very strenuous...

 
 

still no developers diary  :(  

For one thing, where did I ever said I truely believed in the Force? Please, I'm an Atheist, the Force is the product of george lucas' imagination, I never said I believed in it...That's just foolish.


Excuse me? My opinion on organized religion is my own, and you can't call my opinion wrong, it is how I believe, It's not just Christianity, and is not influenced by prejudiced, I don't have a discriminate bone in my body, and I take serious offense to you judging me as such without any knowledge of my true person. I have infact lived as a real christian, I was raised Catholic, again a judgment you made of me without knowing me. My opinion on the Christian faith is not "wrong" or logical fallacy, I've done a lot of research into such things, and I'm very facinated with religion, that is why I like star wars and Star gate so much, because religious belief is actually a key part of the story. I never said you run around praying, my friends are devout Christians and they certianly don't be for real here, don't put words into my mouth...I never said you God was surpressive, he does however give you rules, which you must follow to be allowed into his "Kingdom".

The Church was the first actual law, if you are a christian you should know this, the Catholic Church was one of the first modernly established governments, what I mean by modernly is the beginning of the years "A.D.". They Catholic church enforced laws as we do now, except punishment was excommunication or public execution. The Church was established by humans, which is why I disgree with Organized Religion, because as it was established by humans, it is not "god's true word" and no body who runs a church knows god's true word, no matter how "connected" they are to their faith, The bible tells that no one can hears gods word for his speech was not ment for mortal ears, and thus he appointed a represenative, The Voice of God, whos name I can't remember at the moment...

Christianity is represented by it's churchs, you should know that, and as such, was law.

I don't question nor would ever do anything to insult your belief in god, my mention of christianity was not derogitive at all, you were taught by your parent's or preist/preacher that murder is evil, it is a sin. The Ten Commandments are laws, if you do not follow them you are sentenced to **** or pergitory, If you kill someone here, you are sentenced to life in prison or capital punishment, so tell me, how is there a difference? There isn't they are laws, however the punishment isn't immediate, as it is most of the time in modern day.

This "conscience" has been explained by many psychologists, there are many explinations for it's existance, one of the more possible is that it is remorse we feel for violating laws and rules that have been "hard coded" into our minds. However a "conscience" is easily broken, many people in history felt no remorse for their wrong doings, such as mass murders, bundy I'm sure didn't have a conscience, simple as that, he decided to break the rules, and felt no problems with doing so.

I was explaining that star wars has many tie-ins to philosophy, such as the Matrix does, I never down played you religion, and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth saying I do. You would do well to take a philosophy course when you get to college, or whatever school system they have over there, The world is all as you perceive it, The Matrix affected a lot of people adversely because of this, they started to think "you know...this is entirely possible, someone can simulate taste, we have flavour enhancers, so why would it be impossible that everything else could be replicated?" (I do not believe that I'm hooked up to a computer mind you, just so you don't get all defensive.)

Good and evil are how you percieve them, I don't call someone evil in the sense of "going to ****" obviously. Albert Einstein explained Evil in a very simple and effective way.

"What is cold? Cold is the absence of radient heat in an area, it is not physical, it is psychological, you cannot describe something that does not exist, however the absence of heat does affect our bodies heavily.

What is darkness? Darkness is the term we use to describe the absence of light, light is energy, and we cannot describe the absence of something because it does not exist, the absence of light does adversely affect our bodies, but is not physical because as there is no "division or subtraction" you can't calculate the absence of something.

What is Evil? Evils is the word we use to describe the absence of god, and while one might not be close to god, he is still there, and the absence of him would be what we describe as Evil."

Now as he was a christian he defends his religion to perfection, I like his discription of the absence of god, and as you believe there is a god, and that he is with me, if I realize his presence or no, there is no evil, because god is always here, evil lies only in what you call ****, because that is a domain where god is never present.

Cold and darkness don't exist because the absence of something simply can't exist. Do you understand now?

The way you jumped to a defensive stance to your religion was unexpected, and you took what I said completely out of context, putting words in my mouth. If you have a problem with me being gay, we can discuss this like the adults we are, however if your post was solely related to my comments on christianity, then you have your answer. Yes, i've read the bible, several versions of it infact, the Hindu Vedas, the Old and New Testiments, and the Muslim bible the Qu'ran, I also study ancient religions such as Egyptian polytheism and Wicca. While I do not practice these, I find them facinating and I do know quite a bit about them. The fact that they all have very similar commandments and rules is interesting, and that tells me, in my opinion, that no one has got it right yet, that we stemmed from something long gone, and have yet to rediscover it.

The fact is, laws are decided by the people in power, in France for instance it is Illegal to openly show your religion, not because the French hate religion, far from it, they realize that this is a very private matter, and always causes conflict. My opinion on organized religion can be summed up as such "Religion causes conflict, conflict while human nature, is not helpful, Wars have been started, such as the "Holy War" between Iraq and the U.S. (And I use "holy war" loosely, as it is not the only motivation for the attacks on our country, but I wont get into that.)The Catholics excommunicated the Lutherans when they seperated from the church, and conflict started, many lutherans were killed in that movement. Organized Religion gives people hope to cling to, and it's needed in such dark times, I can admit that there are times I wish that I could believe like you do, it would make life so much easier for me to cope with. It causes problems however, because beliefs are feverish, extream, "I am the one god and you worship only me" "Allah is the one true god" "Thou shalt not worship any other god than I". This causes problems, and they wont help us in the long run, either one religion is going to lord over the rest, or the wars will continue until our society is no longer civilized." I don't insult your religion, I just don't believe that organized religion brings anything to this world.

Let me ask you somthing Jan, one of my teachers showed me this a long time ago when I was in grade school, and I found it very insightful.

"There is no God"
"I am the one God, you will not worship any other God than I" (In reference to the Christian God)
"Allah is the one true god"

All of these statements are non-fiction, yet completely contradictory, the generalized defintion of "Non-Fiction" is Truth, however if these statements contradict each other, how can they all be True? So then you ask yourself, What is truth? Truth, like history, is memory, it is easily explained by one person remembering an event diffrently from another, because each person has their own view of the world, for all you know, Your green could be my red...It's all how you percieve it. Very few things in the world are actually what we define as "True". Philosophy is called the study of objective thought because to understand it correctly you must put aside faith, and look at this logically, think outside the normal frame of reference. You would automatically say "Those statements aren't true, the christian god is the one true god" if you were christian because christians believe that their religion is the right one. So before you examine "Good and Evil", you must examine, Truth and Non-Truth. Something for you to think about...

you're... kidding... me... right? christianity didn't have the first laws, they weren't even the first religion. all that religo-babble asside, go Stargate :)

I did say after "A.D" they weren't the first religion, of course not, however they did establish the first set of "laws" under a religious government's rule.

and yes, go stargate, Viva Le System Lords :lol:

then what about the egyption with their mythos and their government, which lasted for an extremely long time, or the greeks/romans with their mythos and goverment, im not sure but i don't think there were britons at the time, and germanic tribes didn't have centralized governments

actually back then the british were vikings.

Ok, I'm not going to repeat myself, after AD, the Egyptian polytheism didn't last past that time, and their established government was set around their religion however their religion didn't rule it, It was believed that Ra chose the Pharohs but the religious leaders didn't have any other direct influence on the government.

The Pharoh was the leader of the Egyptian religion because he was considered god on earth. So the Reliegion was the government.

He was not a god on earth, where did you learn that? :lol: pharohs were not supreme leaders thought to be lorded over by their gods, he wasn't part of the heirarchy of the gods, which has many MANY diffrent views, you see the hierarchy is really diffrent for a bunch of diffrent people, because some believe that Amun (The god of "Creation" as we would describe it) was ment to be the supreme god. Belief in Amun became a political issue during parts of the ancient civilization, where he almost took over the role of Ra in some parts of Egypt. The symbol of Amun is seen everywhere now-a-days, The Ankh, which is the symbol of Life. If you look, you actually see mention of Amun everywhere, King Tutankhamun, the last part of his name mentioning life and creation, Amun, His name actually means Long Life to Amun. I believe that Ra was deemed the supreme god because the egyptians one of the first cultures that all life stems from the energy of the sun. Ra as the Sun God was the most powerful, whilst Amun could create, Ra kept it alive.

The problem with Amun being the god of creation is that there are no stories about him, and lore tells us he was invisible, so you couldn't find statues or pictures of him! He was then named Amun-Ra so that he might be visible to his subjects, he has very little stories but was worshipped and regarded as all powerful in quite a few places.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the structure, there are many opinions as to the Egyptian Theology.

i've heard that before, the "god on earth" part, though for the life of me I can't remember where from

ive heard it around too

and it also makes pretty much sense but then again i might be wrong but it doesnt matter


anyway wernt the jews the first government in power? ( not including the Egyp)
 

i thought there were various religious factions in ancient egypt, and every once in a while a well planned coup would change the political and religious climate, untill people got sick of it and overturned the new "system".

wow things havent changed a bit in the middle east

Lords of Kobol hear our prayer-
make version three come out tommorow

wait a couple more months and say that again

Im sorry, who was i asking again

since when do i need you to ask something in order for me to respond?

since the question was not directed to you!
that was a sacred prayer!

oh, my.  :rolleyes:  

Project Progress ????? last time i could get on it said:

Project Progress for fleet ops 3

1 critical tasks remaining required asap for further development
13 urgent tasks remaining required next release
36 tasks remaining for yet another future version
20 low priority tasks remaining before final release of last version
24 ideas to check for future releases

heres a thought guys, how about we leave this thread open for discussing the developers diary. for those of you who are likely to say that everything thats worth saying has been said, dont, if that were the case there would be no need for this thread as the mod would be released. you wanna continue your arguement about egypt & religon either do it over PM or create a seperate thread for it. otherwise it is more than likely that this thread will be locked down.

about the progress page, i've noticed that whenever it goes offline, Doca is also offline, so im guessing when he comes back (ie when hes fixed the problem) it will return as normal.

it's not that everything thing has been said, it's that this is a news thread, and we have none, ATM. and we have even less with the progress page down.

wonder what if all the races are going to have a carrier avatar at some point? (happy now?)

well then there is no need to spam the thread if you have nothing to say about the topic.

i think all of the avatars for V3 are already put up. (STFU :hmmm: )

thank you captain wants-to-be-a-mod, because theres been so much use for this thread for on-topic reasons! by the way, everything worth saying has been said already :) shhh don't tell casper to shut up, thats not how mods are supposed to act :lol:


from: cptryan:
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your attempt to be funny was pretty pitifull. the developers diary is an ongoing thread meaning that just because there is a pause in progress doesn't mean it is finnished. and no i dont want to be a moderator, seeing as how i hate people who incessantly spam, especially those who spam with no other purpose but to seem funny. pilllock
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you know you can just say it in here :) who said there was a pause in progress? the dev team is working on the game, cleaning up the remaining part. there aren't too many major decicions left, the ongoing debate is whether or not certain races should have dreadnoughts, and whether or not the dev team already has decided what to do about that :)

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   ahh so there is still a use for this thread then(you seem to have changed your tone). then talk about that, not religon & the egyptians.
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except that debate goes on in another section entirely

freindly  :huh:  :shifty:

War Is Coming... :guns:

when there's news i would have thought doca might clean up the thread when he's got some news to post so i don't see the harm in discussing anything, its like a train of thought is a forum my chums.  

Topic closed