Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations

AS you probably know i am a trek ship freak. The k'tinga as pictured for my avatar has two different weapon systems where the torpedo launcher is.
ST:I,II, IV has a heavy photon launcher.
Later in "Way of the Warrior" DS9
the same exact K'tinga cruiser is armed with a Red Phaser beam where the launcher was.
Why would they strip out a torpedo launcher and replace it with a phaser?
I know im  :wacko:  but thats cool STAR TREK keeps me sane.

Who knows, the red disruptor beam could have been more powerful then a torpedo or maybe they didn't have spare torpedo tubes for it during the refit. It would make sense to have a large disruptor there since Klingons often put forward firing weaponry on their ships.

yes byt a K'tinga also has 4 foward fiaring puls disruptors i belive the torp yoube is better

i would not be surprised the klingons (KLINGON ENGINEERING!) would throw a disabled torpedo launcher out and put a big bad red phaser beam in :lol:

DOCa Cola

although a big red phaser is a derect fire wepon i would have a torp launcher insted

Another one of my favorites is the Enterprise NCC-1701-D in the episode with the tamarians and Darmok and Picard on the planet with the energy creature.
The enterprise fires a high yeild Phaser from the Torpedo tube. And its rapid fire too. What?!?! when did that get installed?

Actually the high yield rapid fire phaser may be easier to explain, if it's not really a phaser (never seen the episode, don't know how they refer to it) but if they are detonating the photon torpedos inside the tube and creating a photonic beam (laser basically) that could be rapid fired by detonating lots of torps ...  

kvort no offence it is a cool pic but it is worse then lumpybobs in size

he knows i alredey said the same.

Actually, it's the worst I've ever seen, concerning size...

1024x768 in a signature? :huh: Some people have strange ideas... :omg:  

Rezise that mother, it would be a great sig pic even at like 200x 300 or whatever you want it.

i will if you tell me how to! im not too URL savy...

You need to use paint or photoshop or something, it actually has nothing to do with URL.

He would still need a host. lol witch i am more then willing to supply. shoot ill resize it too. lol and couse i have no life. lol  behold.....(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Pulaskee/N.jpg)

the URL http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Pulaskee/N.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Pulaskee/N.jpg)


LOL edit number 4 jsut thought i would make this on topic, I find it more irritating when book writers and fans mix things up, like lasers and phasers...Lasers have no affect on the Galexy class, it was said in one of them cool episodes, and in books you find that the TNG phasers shoot blue beams.....is it a setting thing? lol  

lol hear you go multi choice, i redone it for you aswell.

I owe you both many thanks... you will always be welcome on my threads. B)  

Over the Years i have played many Star Trek games, and only one game does the neghvar correctly i mean WTF!?!? How hard is it to include underside weapon pods? STAR  TREK ARMADA II IS THE ONLY TNG TREK Game that got it right! ALL the other games it has no underside weapon pods! it is supposed to! but they dont have it. damn them...

Ah, the good old inconsistencies... one more proof that the guys who made the ST series didn't really care about creating a consistent universe.
The Big Red Beam on the K'Tinga struck me as pretty odd as well. They should have stayed with Photons. Those and disruptors. (I think I remember only one occasion when Klingon D7-style cruisers actually fired green disruptor bolts - in TOS!)

The biggest inconsistencies in my book are the messing up of Federation registries which worked fine until the NCC-1701-D came along, and (if you know its btrue backstory) making the Bird of Prey a standard Klingon ship after TSFS (Does anyone know when they first appeared after that? Was it ST V or TNG?)

Also if you look at Federation Photon torps, they change from red (OS) to blue (TMP) to orange (TWOK) to red (TNG, TUC) to orange (DS9, FC) to yellow (VOY) and back to red (Nemesis), while changing their shape every time.

EDIT: kvort, that's not always the developers' fault. In SFC3 for example, Paramount didn't give Taldren the DS9 license, which the weapons-pod-wielding Negh'Var is part of. So they had to use the TNG Negh'Vars (a.k.a. Voodieh), the future cruiser from All Good Things.
It's true, however, that many games are simply wrong. Like Armada (I think) and Dominion Wars. Then again, Dominion Wars forgot the Saber's deflector dish, so I don't even care about the Negh'Var that much.

Of course you need a host, but you can't resize an image with only a host now can you?

I think that the torpedo colors in trek can be fairly easily explained away. New technology, the spacial enviroment, and just which view you have to a torpedo can effect it's color.

Especially concerning the red versus orange and the different shapes. As far as blue from TMP, I never saw it, but that sounds pretty dumb, especially because only quantums are blue and they are quite recent inventions.

Does a blue torpedo necessarily mean it's a Quantum? Of course not, the one time I saw a blue torpedo was in ST:5 when they were firing in a blue nebula. The nebula could have caused the torpedos color, case closed.

Okay, the blue torp from TMP was fired within a wormhole, so it's not to be taken too seriously.

What do you think the Negh'Var fired at DS9 during the assault?
I say they were planetary assault disruptors.
ditl.org says they are mark 18 disruptor cannons.

When was there a wormhole in TMP?

(slap) im talking disruptors, not worm holes! sorry, sometimes i over react... :blush:  

*slaps back*, sometimes I do too :D  

When did the sovereign get those rapid fire torpedo launchers seen in nemesis? Why didn't they have them before? They would have beat the sh*t out of the Sona.

They had them before, burst fire photon tubes have been used for 40 years in the trek universe at the time of Nemesis. I think the writers wanted the Son'a to go out neater then simply a gun fight. That or Riker doesn't know how to fight well.

I think kvort means the quantum turret under the saucer. I'm thinking someone spilled coffee on a control panel somewhere during the fight with the Sona, or maybe Riker had pawned all the quantums to pay off his gambling debts. Who knows. But yeah the burst fire type 4 tubes are quite new, having been prototyped on the Defiant. On the Enterprise they fire photon instead of quantum for some reason.

Huh?

If you look around ex astris scientia and dtil the consensus is burst firing tubes were introduced on the galaxy class. These were capable of firing 10 photon torpedos in around 5 seconds, then reload times of 20 to 30 seconds. There were modifications and upgrades, until the burst type 4 was developed for the Defiant, capable of firing 12 quantum torpedos in 5 or 6 seconds with a 20-30 second reload. The Enterprise-E has four of these advanced launchers, which apparently have magazines filled with photon torpedos instead of quantum.

We all remember the rapid-fire quantum turret from Nemesis, which can fire a ridiculous number 30+ ? at a rate of 4 per second. This is only mounted on a Sovereign hull so far.

I think some are confusing pulse-fire tubes with burst fire tubes. Pulse fire tubes crank one photon or quantum torpedo per second or per two seconds depending on type, and continue to fire until their magazine is expended.

Of course small ships like the Intrepid are still armed with standard tubes, which have lengthy reload cycles (10 seconds or more per photon torpedo).

Hope this all makes sense.

Burst tubes were introduced on the Ambassadore class, I know that for a fact.

The tubes your talking about are newer and fire more torpedos faster. As far as I know the Defiant class has pulse firing tubes that fire 1 torpedo like every 2 seconds like you said.

you are talking about the same movie as far as inconsitinses are concerned where the enterprise e can grow to 29 decks, and has a hole in the jefferies tube of that deck that apparently goes down oh... about hmmm 10 more, so I wouldn't be to concerned with the rate of fire of those tubes. Now as to how long they have been around probably sence the Ambassodor class, but the one on the Sovie are inventions straight from the Dominion war where speed and straifing would have been a key feature and speed is key, Explaining why they would run out so quickly, (only like 30 minutes into the fight and they were out of Torps) as to why they weren't used in Inssurection. Lets think about riker for a bit. He is the same moron who let the Federation flagship be destroyed becuase he forgot to rotate shield modulation on some kind of random pattern A problem he seems to have alot of the time espesially when the ship is in any major danger. I haven't seen enough of the late ds9 episodes to really notice the rapid burst torpedoes

The Defiant class never got them so there were no burst tubes to notice on most of the episodes. I never got a chance to see the actual dominion war episodes before the show started comming on at 1 PM which is retarded as no one is there to watch anything like that on a weekday.

well i do have all the seasons of DS9, the photons in the episodes of the end don't fire rapid fire, hell they look like the torpedoes from nemesis.

Well alot of the ships used in the dom war didn't have rapid fire tubes like the Excelsior, Miranda, Yeager, Defiant, and some others.

Basically i would like to klingon bird of prey that i kept cloaked over my house and that i could use at my will.

Eventually something would hit it like birds and aircraft in one form or another. NTSB or whatever thats called would eventually get the idea somethings physically blocking aircraft up above your block.

in DS9, the federation was strained in equipment so i don't think they would use rapid fire torps. or they would be out of them in secons

That could have been the problem.

Heh that's what you get in a society without money. No incentive to increase production when it really counts. No overtime, no working three shifts ... no wonder. Heh they probably had to take their mandated six weeks of vacation right around the retreat from Chintoka. Now it all makes sense.  

Communism at it's finest.

but with the fernegie it would be all sub stabndard mercandise and they wouldent work.

though picard says they dont rely on money its a load of crap. Every single officer on ds9 uses gold pressed latinum when playing tongo or dabo, so they must get paid in it or do they arbitrarily just find it on the floor of the promenade?

okay another inconsistencie, the soverign always had quantum torpedos, why in insurrection and in the initial exchange with the scimitar did they use photon torpedos? Quantum are 4x as strong! I mean if i was riker i would have wipped around and just unloaded the quantum magazine in the sona's ugly stretched face.

and now to phasers, why do they suddenly use what i call short burst phasers? i mean a constant beam would do more damage no? and if the pulse phasers are so strong why are they not eqquiped on the prometheus, steamrunner, akira, saber, and all those other advanced combat intended cruisers? I mean they deal damage to a ships hull through the shields, it says so on like Ditl.org i think, anyways i remeber reading about it some where.

Hmm, I’ve read answers to all of those questions I believe... But I can't remember what those answers was. But I’ll tell you what I think.


Maybe they where out of Quantum torpedoes? Maybe they where trying to save them for a sure hit kill? I mean, you don't just unload all your Quantum torpedo’s at an invisible target and hope to get lucky right? And besides, there where friendly cloaked Romulan ships around. (It's been a while since I saw the movie so I might be wrong about the Romulans cloaking) And in Insurrection, didn't they go up against a federation ship there? Because in that case they wouldn't wanna destroy that ship to much. And when they where attacked by the alien ships didn't they move through a nebula? Maybe the increased explosion power of the Quantum torpedo might have set something of.


I don't know what to say about the beams but about the Pulse phaser: It's true that they do damage through the shields since the pulse phaser is essential an onion of phased energy. One layer gets destroyed at the shields while the rest of the energy can continue and harm the hull. But, to equip it to all the ships in Starfleet would severely lower their combat efficiency.

The Pulse phasers can only fired in the direction it's mounted while standard Phasers can fire in almost all directions. Sure, on the smaller ships the Pulse phaser would be a good choice since they can turn really fast and because of that they can aim the Pulse phaser easily.

But on the bigger ships that's just not possible. And to have both Pulse phasers and regular Phasers would do several things, less space to use for diplomacy and the like since almost all Starfleet ships are not made for combat but Exploration. Less energy to use on other systems. And less energy over all in battle.


Uh yea... something like that.

first of all: you are digging for unlogical things, besides Stratrek isn't real so they can be 100% all the time.

secondly: the defienat is messed up as it is. it is way too powerfull and even teh warp core is smaller then the one on a galaxy, intrepid or all the other ships

and i think that they don't use short burst weapons on large ships because they only have a straight forward arc. phaser beams have an almost 360 degrees arc.


so all in all i agree with stryfe  

I agree with the Defiant class being illogical, for the reasons you stated above.

The reason the E-E used Photons with Quantums is it has ALOT of launchers for them. They are widely available in the federation compared to Quantums and simple to make.
 

okay fine, but still about the pulse phasers i did not intend to mean that they should replace all beam phaser mounts. just a couple of forward ones. on the COMBAT intended cruisers, the ones i mentioned above.

An interesting idea but the Defiant is enough, i'd rather it be decommisioned because of some fault in it's super powerful warp core so no more pulse phasers at all.

I think the Phalanx has dual heavy pulse phasers, much much much more powerful than the four that the Defiant class was built with. If they survive into the phalanx ship in version 3 will be a mystery though ...

Phalanx?

yes what is this Phalanx? and can i blow it up? B)  

Go here (http://www.fleetops.net/index.php?p=avatars) And scroll down to Fleet Admiral Risner.

Lol, it's not a real ship. Thought you were serious there for a second.

yah, looks like that ship isnt canon...

The defiant is realy stripped down though in alot of areas, and its max warpspeed is slower than alot of other federation ships from what i remember.

I think we can all agree that a ship that spits out weaponry that is the equivelent of like 1 Photon torpedo from each gun then the quantum torpedos, all running on a warp core alot smaller but for some reason better then a Galaxies is a little far fetched.

You know, i think romie boy is just pissed that a defiant could take any current romulan vessel 1 on 1. ;)  

the defiant isn't all that powerful, and the class itself has a tendancy to take alot of damage and then explode, not my favorited idea of a coffin, the defiant is ceartainly not a warship, warships have guns that point in more than one direction

I think this Klingon here is mad because the Negh'var is WEAK ASS :D  

The Negh'var is not weak, dude.  It's the beast king!  The D'deridex is weak, for it's nothing but a waste of space.   :lol: It's just made to look big so that cowards would run away.  The Defiant, however, is hell on wheels.  It's very powerful, very maneuverable, and tough to the core.

You Negh'var has many flaws, most of which attributed for it being rushed out of the yards. One is it relies too heavily on bulky disruptors that arn't even ment for ship to ship fighting.

The D'deridex does have alot of extra space ment for cargo, shuttles, and so forth, much of that was ment to make it look evil. It is still a force to be reckoned with, one can seriously damage if not destroy a Negh'var. A defiant has little chance against either a Negh'var or a D'deridex, seeing as how it has 3 torpedo launchers and 4 pulse phasers. I'm glad we've gotten this straightened out.

Impossible!  Klingons have extreme standards if you understand their love of fighting and combat as well as their expectations of war.  Here's another ship that y'all should think about.  It's the Keldon.  Sure, it's the upgrade of the small, yet legendary Galor, but it still packs a powerful punch.

Fullphaser hit it right on the head. The Defiant is an ESCORT ship, designed to hold off spheres until the cav arrives (in the form of a squadron of akiras and steamrunners). It's designed to blow the sh*t out of something in one burst and then run the %@#$% away. The PPCs are wickedly powerful against unshielded targets, like the Borg, or the really weak kling ships like the D7 or the dominion bug but not so great against anything else.

And yeah the phalanx is based off of a noncanon art design by Dak Phoenix or something (don't remember the name too well). I'm sure Doca or Optec would love to fill you guys in on it  :D  

Keldon? Hahaha right the Galor was never meant to be anything more than a cruiser, something like an Akira minus the awesome torpedo complement. So they increased the shield capacity a little and call it a battleship? Hahaha a single Akira with some help (say an Intrepid or a Steamrunner) would blow a keldon into itty bitty pieces.

Keldons are a pretty sad ship compared to some federation ships. Especially since they've been told after dom war that they can't upgrade weapons. Like 1 gal can take out 3 galors now.

sawnds like ww2 with japn and germany. thares all wase some link to histary.

Don't forget that the Federation and the Cardassians would have gone into negotiations to fix that problem by creating a new treaty.  Also, some "Cardies" would bring in contraband to upgrade their ships anyways.

Well see they were already fairly inferior because the cardies don't have all the races packed into one like the federation, or have been a major power as long as the federation, romulans or klingons. Although they could get stuff thru the feringi, they wouldnt be able to do much without one of the other powers knowing.

Or they could work with some race the Feds never found, on the other side of Card space. This could give them a distictive advanige.  

what were we arguing about the inconsitancy of? anyway as for the keldon I am sorry but the keldon and the Warbird both showed thier inability to deal with small targets when they attacked the founder homeworld

Or maybe 150 BIGSHIPS was the problem maybe. Obviously that many enemies WILL screw up your weekend. Cardies are weak and thats the end of it.

either that or horrible battle tactics, even when they knew the swarm was coming it seems that the cardi/tal shiar fleet did nothing I would have had those ships moving and using there weapons not standing still and trying to essintially flac the enemy down

Not too much to add to that. I think a comparable Fed fleet would have gotten wasted too. I'm surprised the Rommies didn't cloak up and run, seems like something they'd do.

does anyone know how many ships were involved anyway was it 30 or something? like 15 warbirds and 15 keldons, as for the whole wiping out dominioin bugs, I think that at the time you are right a fed fleet would have been wasted to it only was what a 3 to 1 ratio at the time to wipe out the most powerful ship in the fed arsneal out (U.S.S. Odessy)

What if the Borg were involved with the Jem'hadar bugs?  Now that would be awesome.  Also, the "Cardies" you talk about were the Obsidian Order, not the regular Cardassian fleet.

Cardies are Cardies, all your talking about is the level of training they recieve.

Not unless Enabran Tain were here.  I assure you, if you said anything like that to him, you'd be in the morgue after Elim Garak would come and "take care of" you.  Hmm.

I say that even if they hated each other.  Also, this post is modified from an accidental double post.

hey, donald1 thanks for defending my flag ship. Little does romieboy now is that i have come to see Ditl.org as a bunch of unmittigated sh*t. I have seen and own all 7 seasons of DS9 and i have about 36-58 episodes of TNG that include the romulan flying turd know as the dederix or what ever...
the point of the matter is dederix is no mach for a neghvar, the real neghvar has,
starbase grade shields,
20-33 mark 14 disprutor banks (the same on the main emmiter on the vorcha)
4f/and4A/ torpedoe tubes capable of loading 8 torpedoes each
2 Mark 18 disruptors ill call siege disruptors.
manuverability equal to a galaxy class and the speed of warp 9.6.

Oh please, it's unmanuverable and so is the galaxy. Nearly all of it's weapon arcs are forward. It doesn't have anywhere near that many weapons. It's only got 20 disruptors total, 18 of which can fire on ships. 8 torpedo launchers capable of 3 torpedos each since the Klingons didn't use anything other then standard single and 3 torpedo burst fire launchers in dominion war.

A D'deridex has 6 of the most powerful disruptors and 12 tubes each capable of 8 plasma torpedos, a more powerful shield system, and an equally armored hull as the Negh'var. Whats funny is thats not even the best Romulan ship, which we are trying to compare to the klingons.

A Norexan is even more powerful and a hellofa lot more manuverable. It's got 12 of the same disruptors as the D'deridex, 6 plasma torpedo tubes even more powerful then the D'deridexs. A shield system 1 1/2 as powerful as the Negh'vars. Same Armor, manuverability 5 times that of a Negh'var.

I thank you for your time :D  

You know what this sounds like?

A: My fave ship can beat the crap out of your fave ship!
B: No, it can't! Mine has more torpedoes!
A: But mine's got twice as many disruptors!
B: Does not!
A: Does too!
B: Well, mine's got better shields! And looks cooler too!
A: Well my dad can beat up your dad!

...
:rolleyes:  Just kidding, folks.

I agree, this is a rather foolish arguement, and you know what that means I have to throw my to sence in, I will admit I have never been the biggest fan of the klingon fleet or any of its designs but when it comes to the Neg Var I will stand up for her, espessially against 20 year old desings like the warbird, (we'll get to the Norexan in a sec as I have no appreciation for the oversized b'rel) I will remind all that the warbird is a rather old design being around sence the dawn of the the galaxy class, where as the Neg Var is somewhat newer (somewhat) as for those two "useless" disrupters the Neg Var carries under sling in a fight with a ship like the Derdrix I think that would become a factor, the Derdrix is a VERY large ship and has limited manuverablity and combat speed as. This is best demontrated by the fact that in all battles they are more rolling tanks than anything manuverable... also the disruptors on the Neg Var and the Derdrix main weapons are on an equal level, as for shields the Derdrix has notoriously weak shielding as the ship was designed for a quick and decisive strike rather than a long winded battle, this is probably the reason that the Norexan were on no level par with the Scimitar but rather quite easily wiped out. Also another fact of the Norexan it carries no Extremly heavy disrupters, only numerous light and medium disrupters, and some torpedoes of romulan design which previously had been very slow. The Norexan's shielding was penetrated as was the hull after only minutes of fighting with the Reman Warbird (which is not to say anything bad as the Reman Warbird is in a class all its own) But I would hand the Title to the Neg Var a custom built flagship versus run of the mill warbirds anyday

Regards
Fullphaser

P.S. Don't call Preator Defiant little Rommie Boy that on some level is flaming

Yaso, either give something positive to this thread or don't say anything because it's just empty spamming.

The Negh'var actually began construction before the first D'deridex but was held up due to delays, lack of funding, and alot of skirmishes with other races which made the empire focus on the Vor'cha.

Well all I can do is repeat myself. The D'deridex has slightly more shielding, powerful guns, the same armored hull, and the same manuverability as the Negh'var. The Norexan has 1 1/2 more shielding, even more powerful guns, slightly less armor but pretty much the same as the Negh'var, and much, much more manuverability.

If that's the case, then the Klingons should have something better that the Negh'var, and they do not have something more powerful.  Knowing their battle readiness against extraneous odds, the Negh'var would have to still be more powerful.

D@mn it!  Not again!!!

lol browser hate you donald? lol
Preator, once again i ask you for some back up proof, you know links, couse Phaser and Korang have got some relay good points there. lol i my slef dont much care, more of a fed or vulcan guy my slef. But i am more willing to believe that the klins have the power, it fits there proffile.

damn straight people. Im one of those people that is: either kill me or i will win im that stubborn. And praetor, i respect you we both hold seats of power, but the f***ing neghvar has 360 degree firing arc because each disruptor is turret mounted though you can't tell and because of the deredix's size ther siege cannons would have no trouble hiting it...
and thank YOU!!!!! for your time :D  :D  :D    
P>S> i still think your cool praetor, but just quit, you wont win even if you are correct i am to damn stubborn to give in, its nothing personal, i have a lot of love for this ship and i would take it into battle any day of the week against overwhelming odds. Id fight to the last man and weapon, than ram it up the enemies ass like a klingon enema and awake in stovkor as a hero...

let me apologize, praetor remeber what you said about the ships speed/power or something like that.

its un-klingon but i feel the need to, however do not take this as a sign of weakness we fought gallantly in the dominion war when you were afraid to count your dead. though i grant you you did aid but long after the war had started and klingonm and human blood  had been spilled. history is the only meadeator we need...

Well I don't know what your talking about, i'm a 17 year old in a internet forum and don't recall ever actually being a Romulan in the Dominion war.

You shouldn't expect to change my mind. I AM the most stubborn SoB on this forum, I actually got DEFIANT in my name. I know you like your ship but I am the freakin Preator so I have to have the best, and I have to defend that or else lose face ;)

I never said the Negh'var didn't have any rear firing guns I just said most are mounted forward and aim forward. Those "siege cannons" appear to be ment for attacks on stations or planets and have very narrow arcs for ship to ship combat, even with the D'deridexs size, you can simply cloak before those come into arc.

Most of what i've told you i've learned from the shows, mostly DS9 and TNG. The rest I pick up from various games and internet sources like DITL and ex asteria scientia or however thats spelled.

To answer donald, the Klingons favor swarm attacks with smaller ships to just 1 vs 1 large ship battles, thats why they don't have a ship to match the Federations and the Star Empires best. The Negh'var can hold it's own but it just can't stand up to slightly newer and more powerful ships.  

just getting into character praetor, imnot crazy...

I don't know about this whole thing, and preator you do bring up a good point that klingons favor more of a swarm attack than a simple one on one standoff, and factoring out the main anti-stationary weapons, and simply focusing on the Cannon Neg Var (there is apparantly only one that I remeber) and I would think that facing the fact that the Norexan's were taken out with only a consentrated disruptor spread, something I am almost entierly confident the Neg Var could do, considering the Scimitar was built secretly and probably has more resemblence to a maquis raider in terms of the way that recources were gathered, as the Scimitar was assembled by the remans an underdog race that was subjigated, that and Romulan Dissadents helping shinron Which leads me to believe that the Scimitar had been in contruction for a very long time and just had alot of armor/shielding and better than average wepaonry. The Neg Var on the other hand was assembled using the recources of a proven empire with a record for durability (rember the Kling bird in VI a private ship mind you took far more than your average clocked ship when it came to torpedoe fire even agianst the federation's most advanced ship at the time the Excelcior) this leads me to believe that the Ditl (sp?) has its facts wrong, as the Neg Var would have been assembled with more care, more firepower and even more endurance being at the time. It was probably constructed with multiple small targets in mind or one on one fights with large battleships types, and would have probably been more than a match for any "run of the mill starship for atleast another 30 years of assembly with modification in mind. I am fully confident that the Neg Var would sport far more powerful disrupters then medium but rather a versitle divide with both phasers for point defence against smaller ships (as rember the vorcha seemed to have a weakness against small grouping ships, having no ways to take care of them this would (should) have been eliminated in the Neg Var as it should have been carrying light and medium disrupters for small ships, as well as photons, and the heavy and Ultra heavy disrupters for large one on one ship battles, the most probable one on one enemy target would have been the derdrix class battleship (due to the doros connection with romulos) and the Galaxy Class starship (due to decaying relations between the federation and the Klingon emprie of the Time) this is what leads me to believe that the Neg Var should be considered somewhat closer to the Sovi/ Prometheus/ and should have designed to be stonger than atleast the Galaxy and Derdrix class battleships.
I also have credible doubts as to the strenght of the Norexan class shields, and weapons stregth. As we know the only cannon Norexans fought with a soveriegn class starship agianst a overarmed juggernaught, both were critticaly damaged or destroyed by a properly timed disrupter spread from the scimitar (whose weapons despite popular belief would probably have been a little less then the Weapons the Neg Var is prominate for the Mark 18 (this speculation is based of the firing speed of the disrupters) also as stated before the Romulan design focus not on Durability but rather strike speed and stealth and dagger, meaning most romulan ships would probably have more energy devoted to a quick ultra powerful attack burst, if the ship was not immediatly destroyed or crippled the Romulan tactic has been to cloak and then regain energy, where as Klingon designs seem to be focused on lighter weapons with more speed and greater arks (also speculated due to the fact that romulan first strike capability would be devoted to the forward weapons) but the klingon design has far more endurance than your average ship (as we saw without the cloak the in generation Galaxy class weaponry was having no positive affects against a 12 year old bird of prey newer designs would probably be far more durable, and Flagships such as the Neg Var would be stirkingly un destroable, also rember that Klingon ships such as the Vorcha were struck mutliple times by dominon suicide runs in several episodes before eventually floundering)
This is why I find it hard to believe that a run of the mill Romulan starship of any current configuration would be of any match for a Flagship of the klingon Empire

Regards
Fullphaser

You bring up valid points but theres still alot of things flawed about your post.

For instance, in Nemesis, the reason the Norexan class warbirds faired so poorly against the Scimitar was for 1, the Enterprise has a very skilled and battle hardened crew and 2, It was a movie, so of course the Enterprise had to be the last one standing with the Scimitar.

Again in generations, it was simply a movie. That and the E-D was caught unaware and was unable to bring most of it's weapons to bare. It could have fired 8 torpedos at the BoP but for some reason didn't, their problem.

Your assumption that the D'deridex has few side and rear firing weapons and has mostly forward is just that, an assumption. The Negh'var on the other hand is known to have mostly forward weaponry because thats how every ship in the empire works. The BoP and all of it's varients have ONLY forward weapons while the D-7 and Vorcha have only rear torpedos launchers for rear support. The Negh'var probably has rear disruptors and torpedos but no where near the same amount as the front. Therefore, a sneak attack from behind could have devastating results, a plan which is a custom for Romulan commanders.

Simply thinking I gathered all my knowledge from one source is a mistake, and only listening to the shows and movies is a large mistake also.

Regards,
Romulan Supreme Commander DEFIANT

 

LOL it is a show!! The only TRULY with out a dought cannon info is on the episopes and movies.
You have a point about sneek atacks, ill give you that.

Incorrect, canon info is given out with tech manuals, info from the special effects crew and the original designers. Shows distort it via writers who want the good guy to always win, whatever the odds.

it is a show......lol

Of course it is, but your posting in a thread about star trek ship inconsistancies. This is where we debate unreal ships, so either debate or don't post because it's just spam.

Praetor lighten up before you get a highatel hernia.

Don't make me get midevil on your ass :D  

Nice point about the Romulan alpha strike tactics, Fullphaser. That would explain why they're always cloaking and uncloaking all the time. It would also help explain why they got battered so badly against the scorpion. I also tend to agree with you on the hull strength of the Klingons, their shields aren't the greatest (like the Romulans) but the hulls are tough nuts to crack indeed. I'd wager that the Neghvar could destroy almost any alpha quadrant ship, excepting the Sovereign and maybe an extremely intelligently handled Galaxy.

Someone didn't take the time to read everything...

You bring forth valid points, and I do not disagree that the Warbird and her sister ships undoubtably have aft and staboard/port weaponry, however what I do consider is that in similarity with Klingon designs it seems that unlike most federation ships both Romulan and Klingon designs seem to flounder in the areas of aft/port/starboard weapon strenght it is not simply that they do not have the weaponry rather that that weaponry will and has never been the focus of the design even against targets such as vulcan freighters, also when in the Gamma quadrant the warbirds seemed to be powerless in terms of targeting and weapons power against a plethora of targets leading me to believe that the focus weaponry would be foward the Klingons seem to share this flaw but their ships seem to have a higher turning radius and speed in order to compensate and bring the foward weapons to bear, unlike the romulans the Klingons don't seem to have the major advantage of cloaking in atleast 40% of their ships (with the known exceptions of course of the Bird of Prey and Vorcha Series) although the Neg Var and the D-7 and similar ships have shown no prowess for a cloaking capability I am left to assume that the Klingons would not fully employ cloaking technology, rather that the use of the cloak is not a primary meathod of attack. Where as the romulans may have become reliant on the ability to cloak in order to compensate for rear attacks and then coming about while cloaked or simply going around, it seems that the Klingons choose rather to simply have a quicker turn to compensate for the lack of the major use of cloaking in attack statagy,
also on the same cloaking note I find it highly unlikely that the Neg Var has No cloak system what so ever but rather it is never used due to the Klingon Belief in honor, and to cloak a flagship for an attack would be cowerdice, I do however believe that if required to win a battle that a Klingon ship such as the Neg Var class would use the cloak, as with generations I agree that the movie can and probably should be discounted as cannon simply due to the fact that all battle circumstances surrounding the battle were odd to say the least, including a failure to remodulate shields and limited counter attack before retreat by a Galaxy Class starship, circumstances do lead me to believe however that the Galaxy class espessially during the times of Generations was not a battleship on any scale but in terms of Acutall battle capability was rather an Utlra Heavy cruiser, all evidence from pre dominon war action stipulates the lack of fire power and weaponry on the part of the Galaxy inclding the loss to only 2 kvort curisers pioloted by ferengi thieves, as well as the damage the galaxy fleet seems to have taken over the years...
As for Nemisis I find it first hard to believe that only 2 warbirds of the Romulan Emprire would have been capable of responding this slowly, even after the end of the dominion war espessially with essiantly un proven warships, with no previously known combat record.

Regards
Fullphaser :sweatdrop:

I should also mention that next to episodes my primary sources of information include both the TNG Tech Manual, The DS9 Tech Manual, The all powerful Encyclopedia, Ex Astris, and Daystrom Institute of Technology

You didn't really discount anything I said previously so I have little to say. Negh'var and D'deridex have nearly the same turn radius, both rely primarily on forward weapons but do have side and rear firing weapons as well (Also ventral and dorsal since it is after all on a 3D plane) so theres very little for me to add. The Negh'var is equal on power and probably has a stronger shield, but the Romulans use of the cloak to hide while they recharge does leave it equal. As I said in the beginning, a Negh'var vs D'deridex fight would result in at the very least a heavily damaged Negh'var, a heavily damaged D'deridex, or a draw.

Of course.  Klingons fight to the very bitter end.

Even so, don't think a Romulan would turn tail and run if things didn't go their way ;)  

well, i think most romulans would try to escape, if they got no chance, to come back another time n finish them off.

If they were Kirk era Romulans then yes they would stay because they regard honor as much as current day (24th century) Klingons  the newer Romulans don't belive in honor (remember they live to be well over 200)

I belive the Romulan warbird (D'deridex) would win simply because of the fact that it has more power, it runs off of an AQS while the Negh'var uses an old fashion warp core meaning the D'deridex could overload it's weapons while keeping full power to sheilds and SIF

A few romulans would run but I doubt very many would. Prolly because we have a backup plan all the time and would use it, like 2 more warbirds cloaked nearby.

AQS is strong but remeber that they tend to be unstable little beasties, but that is beside te point, one of the things that has been getting at me recently was the sudden lack of shields in Star Trek 6 for the Excelcior when she and the Enterprise engached General (chang?)'s cloaking torpedo BOP

It has shields but the effects in those movies makes it so when a torpedo hits your shield, it leaves a black mark on the hull but doesn't penetrate. They did once the excelsior lose her ventral shields. Same for enterprise.

Yeah the speculation is that the earlier shields merely detonated the torpedo, they didn't absorb all the energy (kind of like an RPG screen today) of course as is seen in newer movies almost all or even all the energy can be absorbed by the shields, because they're auto-modulating regenerative or something.

ok that might explain things, just knew that was bothering me that two ships were taken out so quickly with only torpedoes

Would the Dominion stand a chance against the Borg? I think it would make for one hell of a fight! :D  

Too bad that it hasn't happened on ST yet.

the borg would win easily, all the jem hadar can do is stay invisable to hide, but the borg would adapt. but being the borg, the efficient way would be taking out the tetracell white facilities of teh domonion, they could easily do that

Well, i think it would be fun
AND THATS WHAT COUNTS!!!!!!!!!! :2guns:
ZOMBIES ARE EVERY WARE!!!!!!!!!!

what about the loss of the enterprise at Viridian III, is their any resonable explanation

1. the enterprise was  un prepared.(unlikley)
2. Teh pird of prey had enhanced torpedoes. (nahhh....)
3. La Forge had a brief siezure and couldn't modulate shield nutation.
4. The shields in the final-cut were replaced with under cooked bacon.
5. The enterprise e was due and they needed the enterprise d to get destroyed so, during an acid trip, one of the writers said "Hey wouldnt it be cool if the ent-d was destroyed by a birdofpery?!" (most likely)  

Or maybe it's because the weapons didn't hit the shield? Like they didn't in the movie...

but still Chancellor Korang has a pont. the tipe of war berd was an relick.
the d-crowe had ben in harder places be for.

i whood have loved to see the 'D' go dawn like the 'C' that whood have ben neet.

Lursa and B'etor had set up a link with Geordi's visor, so they could see everything that he saw.  They hoped to find out what the shield frequency was, and they got it.  What they did was modulate the frequency of their torpedoes to 257.4 MHz, the shield frequency, so that the torpedoes would go through the shields, and they did.

Yes once you can shoot thru shields your screwed, a K'vort is fairly heavily armed so a few torpedo hits on the completely unshielded hull will ruin your weekend.

I don't know still seems like total crap to me. All those lovely Type X phaser arrays would melt a kvort in seconds. Even if all power was out and EPS blown to hell a few dozen torpedos from the lovely burst fire launchers would blow a kvort into a million tiny pieces. I vote for Korang's number 5

Well it's not a small vessel E-D, was dealing with, it was a K'vort class heavy cruiser. 2 K'vorts can heavily damage a Galaxy with it's shields up, one can EASILY get it with it's shields down, I mean torpedos hitting unshielded hull...especially when your not expecting it...

I know. In theory anyway unless those first enemy torpedos completely took out the EPS feeding the phasers and the torpedo launchers themselves it would take a competant tactical officer about 5 seconds to lock all weapons and return fire, vaporizing the K'Vort in the process. Just seems like kind of a silly way for the most powerful ship in Starfleet (at the time) to go down.

You seem to be missing that the first torpedos seriously crippled power on the E-D, because the weapons were constantly being fired straight at the warp core. She did get phaser shots off but seeing as how it's a newer bird of prey, much never then most, that it wouldn't take the shields below 60%.

ok first off I should point out this was a very small bird, and there is no way that it was a k'vort, simply to small, second it didn't take them but like thirty seconds to change the shield modualtion when fighting the borg, Third the Enterprise was at red alert and battlestations,and Idon't care if they just got the new members of the crew in it seems like they would have known how to throw out a batch of torpedoes and phasers, and I don't care much for the time gap, but within just a few seconds of engaging the scimitar the enterprise was launching 6 torpedoes, 4th as pointed out by many the bird they were using was old. Does no one else find it just completly illogical that the bird ever stood a chance even while being fired on. Even an idiot such as riker would have known to make some great manuvers, Fed ships may be thin shelled, but we see several instances where the hull takes one hell of a beating and still manages to make it through the situation (at this point we dismiss voyager as a reliable source)  

they pointed out that the bird had been decomissioned :huh: how could it be new?

Ok well seeing as how you must have not seen the movie because it WAS a K'vort class BoP, and they said it was only 30 years old, you don't really seem to know what your talking about. Even if the BoP wasen't a K'vort, she is armed with the same torpedos as the K'vort, so it doesn't really matter.

The torpedo passes thru all barriers, including emergency force fields, that usually cushion blows even after the shields are down, and lands right into the hull near the warp core. I don't see any problems with this at all.

I suprised that you'll support the Dedrix and not the Galaxy

D'deridex and Galaxy are essentially equal in terms of fire power and defense.

Ummm ... then why did so many warbirds get blown to bits in the Dom wars while the half-dozen galaxies left a path of death and destruction in their wakes? Just wondering ...

Because it's a freakin show, because the warbirds led the attack while the federation brought up the rear, because of romulan battle tactics, maybe a mixture of all. Take your pick...

Not to mention that the federation is the "all over good guys" and they cant be shown loosing too much, but the romulans are the bad guys half the time.

Their bad a good 85% of the time.

I don't really like the Federation that much.  They're hypocrites in the respect that they treat those who happened to be genetically enhanced like second-class citizens.  I can understand their concerns over the mere practice of genetic engineering, but that doesn't justify a second-class citizen status, so I don't really view them as good guys.  I would have to root for the underdogs like the Cardassians.  I bet you that even a Dominion bug ship would blow a Galaxy or even a Sovereign class ship to pieces.  It just got to know what to hit correctly.  This would be if the series was not a factor in which the Federation would be fair game against even a second-rate power like the Cardassians.

Ah! Eugenics sympathizer! Well opinion about the Federation's "mistreatment" of genetically modified people aside, and the Cardassian institutional murder of millions of Bajorans and Federation colonists pre Dom war, it took 3 bugships using desperation tactics against a Galaxy to destroy it, and that was before Fed shields were modified to deflect polaron beams. If your statement was true then why would anyone even bother buiding huge ships with correspondingly huge shield generation facilities?  

I have one better: one Dominion battleship against every Sovereign and Galaxy class starship.  That would be much better. :lol: Once that's done, the Federation is f***** right in the rear! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  

Alot of the geneticaly enhanced where unstable.

One Dom dreadnought versus 3 or 4 sovereigns and 8-12 galaxies ... yep that would be cool  :D  

Hi, sorry ive been gone for ever, Genetically enhanced people were unstable because oftheir superiority complex. With knowledge of being mentally and physically superior to rest of your species makes  you believe that you should lead. Hitler, The psychotic f***, demonstrated in (mien kenc; or something), his book, "my struggle." When Adolf was in jail, he thought that the Arians were superior and all other races shoukd be under their control. Wasn't he really f***ing crazy? THe augmented feel the same. Nothing like a million napoleons striving for dominance.

Mein Kompf I think.

"Mein Kampf".

Close enough ;)  

Anyone ever see the movie "Gattaca?" I think that's what happens when the "superior breed" actually wins.

Anyone familiar with Darwin?  He came up with "survival of the fittest".  Back to the original subject.  One Dominion battleship could easily destroy a Borg cube.  If polaron weapons are not adaptable from what I've heard, then the Borg are screwed. :lol:  

Naw a cubes too big, it would win from sheer size.

How could the Borg not adapt to polaron weapons? If the Federation can design modifications to the relatively simple gravimetric shields they use, surely the Borg can modulate their own shields accordingly?

I thought I heard about it on a previous post in another topic concerning Jem'hadar weapons when boarding a Borg ship not being adaptable to the Borg since it's not regular energy.  If it's not accurate, then I'm alright with that.  Anyhow, I think that a battle between one Jem'hadar Battleship and one Borg Cube would be impressive.

Battleship would be ended in moments, it's way too small to take out a Cube.

Yeah if the entire typhon fleet was eliminated at Wolf 359 I think a single ship (even if it's really big) wouldn't stand a chance. The cube is 27 cubic kilometers of internal volume remember, with higher energy densities than the other ST races (all that awesome technology they've assimilated)

A dominion battleship isn't big though, it's roughly the size of a galaxy.

I think you guys are thinking about the dominion dreadnought, that big ass mofo.

i wonder in size haw the dom drednot compares to a cube. i know the cube is biger but i wonder if thay are close in size...

The ship that you say is roughly the size of a Galaxy class is the Dominion battlecruiser.  The dreadnought is also referred to as the battleship, and that's what I was referring to.  I did come across a website stating that the dreadnought/battleship is about 1500 meters (1.5 kilometers).  Now a cube has equal length, height, and width.  The cube root of 27 is 3, so a Dominion battleship/dreadnought which would have a length of 1.5km would happen to be comparable to a cube and would happen to be very powerful nonetheless.

But the huge class if ship is the dreadnought, not the battleship. The idea is not to confuse people by only saying one class.

The battlecruiser, I stated, is the name of the ship that is roughly the size of the Galaxy class.  In the DS9 episode called "Valiant", the Dreadnought was referred to as a Dominion Battleship.

Anyhow, the ship fight that I have been speaking about is the fight between the Dreadnought and the Cube.

So what exactly are we talking about?  A cube is huge and i dont care.
LALALALALA POTATO!!!!!!! LALALALALALALALALALLALALALALAL

A cube versus a Dominion Dreadnought.

Cube would own it. It is one ship so they could put it in a holding beam, they could target all there weapons on this once ship and start beaming aboard like 2000 drones to assimilate the crew.

1. Bacon is the coner stone of any nutrious breakfast.
2. In relation cube VS Dominion DN.
A. Wont happen.
B. Borg wouldwin.
C. Cheesewiz is the breast baby of satan.  :lol:  

dammit is that you will?

Sorry about the cube size mixup, Donald. I was thinking of the tactical cube (Voyager vintage) which is 3 kilometers on a side. So still vastly more volume in a regular cube than a dreadnought, more crew, and the whole assimilation thing (as was pointed out above). There just isn't any single ship in the galaxy that we've seen that can take down a cube of any size. Not counting 8472 of course, but they're not from this galaxy ...

In a previous post on some other topic, possibly this one, it was pointed out that assimilating the Jem'hadar would be a bad idea since they're drug-enhanced and that the amount of resources to keep Jem'hadar drones alive would be enormous since they rely on Ketracel White to stay alive.  As for Jem'hadar facing off against Borg drones, the Jem'hadar are aggressive like f*** as well as having camouflage, and the Borg aren't aggressive, so the Jem'hadar would have some greater advantage, but the Borg can see things other than the regular spectrum, so camouflage might not work.  It may be possible that the Dominion may have some ship even more powerful than the Dreadnought.  It fits their character for having order, but the Dominion may have changed due to Odo.

I think the Borg would find Jem'hadar an asset, because the Borg can synthesize their own ketrecel white. With the Jem'hadar being so strong and implants only helping, they would be good assimilators.

and if thay did thay whood get clowing tecknogy and whood beabule to grow thare own drowns making that 10x more dedly.

that whood make sins be cuss in a episode of voiger the voager got a holed of a drone from the fucher that cood grow its self.
that cood poably meen that maby the borg asimalted some domon clowing station and use the dom tech th inprove thare asimalation proses.

Well, comrades im home from school with a bug that makes it so you feel fine until you eat something, then your intestines explode. :mellow:  Buy im better and eating... what else, bacon.  All i can say is thank god for laptops, they make life fun....
IS there anyone here who plays Star Trek: Bridge Commander also? And they mod it?
 :huh:  

I do happen to have that game.  I like some of the music on there.  I sometimes play BoP versus several Cardassian (note that I don't use "Cardie" since I admire the Cardassians) stations firing disruptors.  I've also destroyed a Sovereign with a Ferengi Marauder.  Your best bet is to use the helm manually to fire at certain spots to destroy the Sovereign.  I've seen mods for ST:BC on the web, so just google for ST:BC mods and you'll get some.  They include Star Trek, Star Wars, and Battlestar Galactica ships.  Some of the ST ships are Dominion.  Also in respect to the Dominion vs. Borg, I've seen stuff on the web about what would happen if the Dominion went off against the Borg.

I play it Will
I modded the hell outta mine. That new EoL 1.3? Dont dl it. Worst mod.  

I pick my own ships, and put them in and do stuff. the Dw Klingon ship pack is very neat.

The Borg could implant the Jem'hadar with a node that makes something equivalent to ketracel white...or genetically remove their dependancy with implants entirely. The Jem'Hadar if provided with melee weapons other then those bayonets could most likely take the borg on a 1:1 ratio...but thats not how it works...the Dominion Ship at MOST has 20 000 Jem'Hadar on Board...and the Cube Ten Times that amount...it would be like America vs Canada if all the Americans were uber take 557525434 bullets Resdient Evil zombies and all the Canadians were Polar Bears with ...Pulse Rifles.

I should point out that the Jem'hadar are armed with polaron rifles, and the Borg don't use particle weapons, so that gives the Jem'hadar an advantage.

borg addapt jem'hadar do not

For borg to adapt, they must first assimilate a speciment as we saw against species 8472. This could become a problem as Jem'Hadar rather die than be taken prisoner/assimilated/....

he stated, that jem'hadar have "guns" and borg do not, but as we have seen, borg can addapt to energy based weapons in a short period of time.

and species 8472, were not assimilatible, so that's why they had problems
so it is not rue, that jem'hadar would have an advantage, since borg would become imune to their weapons, and could overpower them

It would take one battle for the Borg to be able to assimilate some Jem'hadar, but the Founders would order a new breed of Jem'hadar that would be able to resist assimilation.  That takes a great deal of research, but the Dominion excels at such stuff.

again! the rifles as it was stated are NOT an advantage, you stated, that jem'hadar have an advantage becuse borg aren't armed

they have rifles that destroy tishue through radiation and stuff, thats why they would have an advantage  

i know but borg addapt
 

they first need to assimilate, and its hard to come close to a Jem Hadar with a rifle like that ;)

These are polaron rifles, and they can even prevent blood clotting.

The borg can beam anywhere through shields, they beam behind a Jem'hadar, bam hes assimilated. Your willingness to kill yourself before becomming captured doesn't work if your suprised from behind. Borg grab a weapon, take it back to their ship, bam they adapt. Of course the Borg can rape the Jem'hadar.

Dude i HAVE seen every episode of DS9 about 10 times, so do not tell me what polaron rifles are :P

and barone borg don't need to assimilate a jem'hadar to addapt to a weapon!
they always adapt to a phasor or similar, without actually taking it......
and even if they had to, it isn't that difficult to take 1 weapon and develop an imunity

Chances are after less then 5 shots, the borg would adapt.

No kidding. This seems like a silly thing to argue about.

Yeah really, it's very simple.

indeed guys

I am saying that the dominion has very different technology than other races, if u remember their polaron beams went right through fed ships shields, also they couldnt engage a tractor beam to a dominion ship, untill they got a ship and they could study it and adapt to it.

I know borg would adapt at some point, but Im just saying it would be much more difficult than with the feds, also dont forget the Jem'Hadar also have much superior transport technology than the feds, so they might have a superior way to block somebody from transporting to their ships as well ;)

They can also get through forcefields, do not underestimate the Jem'Hadar, they are bred for war, and their specifics can be easily changed through some gene manipulation :)

But of course Borg would prevail, if nothing else there are A LOT more of them :D

indeed numbers an size would bury the jem hadar, other things you said is mostly speculation

It could take longer for the borg to adapt to them, or maybe it would be easier, we really don't know.

These are all facts, if u really watched DS9 so many times, u should have known that ;) :P

i belive you KNOW that i did, we even watched some together  

U still should have known that :P

OKay my friends heres one i have been thinking about. Why did the Enterprise D shoot phasers out of the torpedo tube in the episode " Darmok"

Special effects error, mystery solved.

Yeah and a rather egregious one at that. All in all TNG was a pretty good series effects-wise though.

Agreed.

it was a little weird watching the 7th season and than 1st, couse 7th was like DS9(or close) and 1. was like TOS(a bit better)

The 1st season of DS9 appeared during the 6th season of TNG.

which supports my teory completely

I have all the seasons of DS9 and my leat favorite is the 1st season. I Like 4-7.  ^_^
The show gets better when M.Dorn joins the cast as Worf. And Martok (Coolest Klingon aside from Chang  B) ) MAkes his appearance by laying siege to DS9.
 

yeah the whole series really takes off with the first battle at DS9

Which is Better
Negh'var
Galaxy
Soverign
Dredix warbird(I give less than a crap about how its spelled)
A Band of 45 NASA chimps in Klingon BOP
A tub of cottage cheese commanding a warbird
A petridish of primordial soup commanding a soverign.
SUPRISE ME.  :lol:  

I'd have to say the NASA chimps on the BOP, with that kinda of IQ, any other ship is screwed.

I have to agree. Those klingons are going down.  ^_^  

I thinks chimps controlling a bop would be very entertaining. Set up a 24 hour camera, and you got one hell of a show.
 

How about this: a Negh'var run by a bunch of immature turds like Buu, Cartman, Ike, Kenny, etc. acting like folks from Animal House with Martok in command raising all kinds of hell.

lol or a  sov run by me, preator, ewm, cario cts006 and star trek just to see us get into one hell of a fight and who can trap the other on the ship with a self destruct :P

Ewm and cairo out the air lock in the first episode. You other 2 get left in a shuttle because I got no beef with you. Then I warp right into the starbase orbiting earth, because i'm gangster like that.

ohhh how bout this... all the members on fleetops stuck on a borg cube survivor style with contest and vote offs and everything, who has the cunning the know how, the survival skills to make it though this horrible contest, and get this Kate Malbrew as the host, alright who dies, I say that (lets see who to start a beef with, ahh nevermind flaming sucks, and plus I don't really hate anyone, so I'll just pick a fan favorite, Preator you're so getting voted off... oh boy I need to sleep... oh well..) but yeah and on top of that there are still borg on the cube just to add some tension...

It's a good thing you suck so bad, you didn't even make it on the sovern full phaser.

hear is some the klingon bop is actualy a romulan ship in st III kruddg stole the bop from the romulans the edtiting caused the scene where we leatn that to be cut. the battle cruser was actualy given to the klingons from the romulans during tos.  the torp was origanaly a wass destruction wepon of high potinancy not a heavy wepon same with the plasma torp the fedderitation had disruptors before phasers the first incountered romulan ship was a U-11 class destroyer not a weird bop. and much much more  

it's the other way around. teh romulans where ships wise technological very behidn and they recieved D-7's and other ships from the Klingons during the Klingon/romulan alliance

And warp drive, too, but recent events point otherwise.  That's another topic.